The 14b Drag Race Discussion Thread

[SBR Joe]

When's your next track date planned? (Im real interested in hearing you say that you think cam gears are worth a significant gain...I'v never used them and was thinking of picking up a set)

My buddy curt picked up over 150whp gains on his setup, and a guy he knows that has a 16g car, made 80whp by doing it, using FP4R cams. He told me, with 264's to go like +2 degrees on intake and -1 on exhaust. You loose a tad of the low end grunt but it stretched it out further up top.

Being i have a 14b, i dont think itll affect me loosing any "low end grunt" because theres plenty of that to go around haha.

Im ordering cam gears and DSM link tomorrow as soon as Candy gets in haha. Ill let you know.

 

[Nate Crisman]

My buddy curt picked up over 150whp gains on his setup, and a guy he knows that has a 16g car, made 80whp by doing it, using FP4R cams. He told me, with 264's to go like +2 degrees on intake and -1 on exhaust. You loose a tad of the low end grunt but it stretched it out further up top.

Being i have a 14b, i dont think itll affect me loosing any "low end grunt" because theres plenty of that to go around haha.

Im ordering cam gears and DSM link tomorrow as soon as Candy gets in haha. Ill let you know.

ok. Im running HKS 264Intake and 272 exhaust cams with oem gears and a JMF sheetmetal intake manifold. Granted, Iv got an E3 16g on the car, but it still seems the power drops off up top and wants to be shifted before 7000rpm. I'm kinda thinking of giving adjustable gears a shot, but frankly, the car is so inconsistent that Im not sure I'd be able to really tune them in well at the track.

 

[SBR Joe]

ok. Im running HKS 264Intake and 272 exhaust cams with oem gears and a JMF sheetmetal intake manifold. Granted, Iv got an E3 16g on the car, but it still seems the power drops off up top and wants to be shifted before 7000rpm. I'm kinda thinking of giving adjustable gears a shot, but frankly, the car is so inconsistent that Im not sure I'd be able to really tune them in well at the track.

Then get it the hell on a dyno!

 

[YZFR1]

Evo3 II 7 cm VS. 6 cm

 

[jjrock5]

Evo3 II 7 cm VS. 6 cm

The point of this is?

 

[Phil1320]

Evo3 II 7 cm VS. 6 cm

Good comparo shot. Although the 6cm inlet obviously can be ported even more. Next time I hit the strip I'll have the EVO 3 housing on there. I want to see what advantage it has. Hopefully a decent one!

 

[YZFR1]

The point of this is?

No real point or big master plan behind it at all. You are cool.. i'm not.

Good comparo shot. Although the 6cm inlet obviously can be ported even more. Next time I hit the strip I'll have the EVO 3 housing on there. I want to see what advantage it has. Hopefully a decent one!

Honestly, i don't really see much point in switching out a properly ported 6cm for a 7cm, except for a minor weight reduction. Especilly with the evo3 II, because they have so much material shaved off from the factory, it is scary to port them out any larger than what i have it at. It gets pretty thin at least in one place right behind the flange. And i really didn't feel like searching for another one. As a matter of fact, the only reason i did get it is because my 6cm needs a larger flapper and that stupid bolt taken out

However, i do look forward for your .02 cents from somebody that has had a fully ported 6cm and compare it with the 7cm. I guess, when sqweezing it all out it might make some difference after all. Good luck

 

[habitatguy187]

The actual volute of the 7cm housing is larger, as in around the turbine wheel. This aids in more flow. DSM-onster did a nice test using a 7cm housing and the stock sealing ring, then taking the housing off and porting it. To sum it up it was a big waste of time and if you decide to use the 7cm housing, try to get your hands on a 7cm housing step-ring and use that instead of porting it.

 

[YZFR1]

The actual volute of the 7cm housing is larger, as in around the turbine wheel. This aids in more flow. DSM-onster did a nice test using a 7cm housing and the stock sealing ring, then taking the housing off and porting it. To sum it up it was a big waste of time and if you decide to use the 7cm housing, try to get your hands on a 7cm housing step-ring and use that instead of porting it.

So a 7 cm flows significantly more than 6 cm, especially if it is not ported I tried measuring out the propeller side and yes, it is larger but by a fraction. I guess, that is the place where a little goes a long way maybe.

Btw, there is no point to these pictures just like the universe! The point is whatever, one makes of it.

 

[SBstar]

Well, I can't personally say it's due to the 7cm housing but I've noticed that my boost does not drop off like many have described. I do not have my wastegate shimmed at all currently and at 21psi I do not notice my boost level dropping off when shifting at 6500. I might lose a psi or two but have not yet seen it dropping to 15 or lower like many other described. I'm almost wondering if I'll notice it more once the fmic is on though? I'll let everyone know.

 

[Nate Crisman]

The difference that actually makes a perfomance difference between a 6cm and a 7cm housing cannot really be seen or shown in a photograph, as it's the volume of the exhaust passage AROUND the exhaust wheel on the innermost part of the turbine housing.

Inlet size and outlet size are pretty much moot between the two so long as there are no leaks and no abrupt size changes/edges. It's what's inside that counts

 

[Gooberlog]

I noticed much better flow when switching to the 7cm housing while running the 14b. The turbo didn't struggle as much in the higher end.

 

[Phil1320]

However, i do look forward for your .02 cents from somebody that has had a fully ported 6cm and compare it with the 7cm. I guess, when sqweezing it all out it might make some difference after all. Good luck

Yeah, my 6cm is fairly well ported. But, I may as well throw the 7cm on and see what can be gained. Noone that I've heard talk about it says there's nothing to be gained, I'm hoping I see the same. I don't expect to knock .2 off my ET or anything, but maybe trap speed will increase a bit. Maybe it will surprise the hell out of me. Unfortunately, I will also be switching to a larger FMIC at the same time......so that may kill any chance of seeing just what it will bring to the table. Maybe I'll do the FMIC first and tune to that, then put the 7cm on after. I don't mind doing some testing to see what I can distinguish as gains from a certain thing. The only thing is that my track visits are minimal at best(non existent this year)and I TRY to make the most of every trip. Thanks for the well wishes, but I won't be at the strip til next year. Was actually going to try to surprise and run the car on October 8th, but I just haven't been able to devote the time to getting the car to the speed shop for the rollbar, and haven't purchased a new driver seat or harness yet which I need to have present for the install. And now that the tracks are clamping down on the 2 year dating on the harnesses, I definitely don't want to get that until I KNOW I will be racing.

The actual volute of the 7cm housing is larger, as in around the turbine wheel.

Yep, I remember hearing this exact point in a conversation about this earlier in the thread I think. I'm sure you can probably over-port a housing, in other words port it past the point where any gain comes into play. The EVO 3(turbo) housing I've got is already ported as it was on my friends car for a while. So, I have to use what I've got and won't be able to use the ring like you're saying--that's a real interesting point though, thanks for posting it up!

Well, I can't personally say it's due to the 7cm housing but I've noticed that my boost does not drop off like many have described. I do not have my wastegate shimmed at all currently and at 21psi I do not notice my boost level dropping off when shifting at 6500. I might lose a psi or two but have not yet seen it dropping to 15 or lower like many other described. I'm almost wondering if I'll notice it more once the fmic is on though? I'll let everyone know.

Another interesting point. I remember PNEUMO stating that he thinks the boost drop off is due to larger cams and headwork. Pretty sure that's what I remember. It makes sense. A weaker turbo could contribute I'm sure, or just plain overboosting I think could cause that. Like pulling the wastegate line and letting the turbo boost without control. I remember the 2G T25 guys used to pull the wastegate line and the turbo would top 25 psi but be down to 11 by 6000 rpm. I think a weak internal gate, or just internal gates in general are part to blame for boost loss. In my case, when I was on the original internal, I would hit 21 and then it would drop to 18-19 and maybe touch 20 again....I'd look at the boost guage in 4th gear and it wouldn't be a constant drop, it would fluctuate. Once I ditched the internal, and put the O2 mounted Tial on, as I've said elsewhere, the boost guage is LOCKED on 21 once I hit 4th gear at 550-600ft. all the way through the traps.

The difference that actually makes a perfomance difference between a 6cm and a 7cm housing cannot really be seen or shown in a photograph, as it's the volume of the exhaust passage AROUND the exhaust wheel on the innermost part of the turbine housing.

Inlet size and outlet size are pretty much moot between the two so long as there are no leaks and no abrupt size changes/edges. It's what's inside that counts

Gotcha.....I wonder where if there is a point where porting too much actually slows exhaust gas velocity? Maybe not with the 14b, but I do wonder. It would take alot of testing to figure it out, and alot of different ported mani's and turbines, but it would be cool to know.

I noticed much better flow when switching to the 7cm housing while running the 14b. The turbo didn't struggle as much in the higher end.

I remember you saying this Trav. Go figure, I remembered something

And, that's where my car struggles, the second 1/8 mile. Between the 7cm housing and a better FMIC, I'm hoping to see some ET picked up in the second 1/8. I'm not sure how much quicker I can go the first 1/8. Not sure I can do better than 1.48 60's, significantly anyway--like high 1.3's or 1.40, enough to show a difference in ET. I'd like to think that I could better the 7.27 1/8 ET and hit 7.0. My goal in the 1/8 is 6.97 because that's the quickest 1/8 ET I found for Joe B. on the 14b. It's the top of the track where I'm just a passenger along for the ride, that the car needs some more ooooMPH! Hopefully I see a nice gain.

 

[YZFR1]

Got a newb question.

There is a locating pin on the 7cm housing. Do i just shave it off? It has nowhere to go when mated to my 14b. Want to double check before i do that. Searched, with not much luck on the subject. Thank you

 

[Gooberlog]

I think i remember that pin lining up with the 14b, if it doesn't remove it or cut it off flush.

 

[habitatguy187]

And, that's where my car struggles, the second 1/8 mile. Between the 7cm housing and a better FMIC, I'm hoping to see some ET picked up in the second 1/8. I'm not sure how much quicker I can go the first 1/8. Not sure I can do better than 1.48 60's, significantly anyway--like high 1.3's or 1.40, enough to show a difference in ET. I'd like to thing that I could better the 7.27 1/8 ET and hit 7.0. My goal in the 1/8 is 6.97 because that's the quickest 1/8 ET I found for Joe B. on the 14b. It's the top of the track where I'm just a passenger along for the ride, that the car needs some more ooooMPH! Hopefully I see a nice gain.

I say ditch the bigger fmic (which might hurt spool and overall flow) and go e85 instead.

 

[Phil1320]

I say ditch the bigger fmic (which might hurt spool and overall flow) and go e85 instead.

That's a distant thought, but the nearest stations are in the next state. Of course I'd need injectors and such. I'm not sure E85 is for me. I'm trying to keep my set up as basic as possible. I would need something better than an AFC2 to tune on E85. Without a doubt, after seeing what the 16g guys are doing, the car would pick up some power for sure. Just not sure if that's the route I want to take. There are still several things I want to do(cams & balance shaft removal to name a few) before I start throwing other variables into the mix, such as E85. The car has more in it without all that.

 

[SBstar]

I say ditch the bigger fmic (which might hurt spool and overall flow) and go e85 instead.

Do Both! Actually I think a "bigger" FMIC if anything, will help his spool and overall flow, the evo fmic is hardly good. A quality intercooler will probably have less pressure drop, mixed with much better cooling will equal gains everywhere!

I'm one that will praise E-85, but honestly you won't make more power on it then on C-16, now E-98 might gain you a little more. According to my research you can make slightly more power on C16 then on E-85, but the cost is what makes it so awesome!

 

[Phil1320]

Do Both! Actually I think a "bigger" FMIC if anything, will help his spool and overall flow, the evo fmic is hardly good. A quality intercooler will probably have less pressure drop, mixed with much better cooling will equal gains everywhere!

I'm one that will praise E-85, but honestly you won't make more power on it then on C-16, now E-98 might gain you a little more. According to my research you can make slightly more power on C16 then on E-85, but the cost is what makes it so awesome!

Yeah, I'm definitely gonna do a better FMIC for sure. I was under the impression E85 would make more power than the C16 I run, although I found it hard to believe. But, you say otherwise. OK, well that's a no brainer then. My car has been on C16 forever, so for now, it will stay that way. The cost is definitely a key factor, but, I don't drive the car on the street, and for what it would cost in injectors and tuning, my 4 or so trips to the strip each year won't cost too much in VP. I use maybe 1.5-2 gallons every time I'm at the strip. I would like to get DSMlink in the car and try to extract more power through proficient tuning. I'll have to figure out who I would employ to tune it though.

 

[Gooberlog]

While we're on the topic, my punishment racing FMIC still had very quick spool up and no pressure drop when i was running the 14b.

 

[RedEyeBanDiT]

Somebody should post a list of what it takes to run the 14b into 11's with a list of weight reduction.

 

[TSimage]

Yeah, I'm definitely gonna do a better FMIC for sure. I was under the impression E85 would make more power than the C16 I run, although I found it hard to believe. But, you say otherwise. OK, well that's a no brainer then. My car has been on C16 forever, so for now, it will stay that way. The cost is definitely a key factor, but, I don't drive the car on the street, and for what it would cost in injectors and tuning, my 4 or so trips to the strip each year won't cost too much in VP. I use maybe 1.5-2 gallons every time I'm at the strip. I would like to get DSMlink in the car and try to extract more power through proficient tuning. I'll have to figure out who I would employ to tune it though.

e85 will give you a more forgiving baseline due to the cooler temps and thus lower your detonation level (knock) Running E85 is more like running 110+ the benefits of alcohol. E98 on the other hand is likened to running higher end fuels beyond 116 with the additional benefits of alcohol multiplied of course due to the amount being increased.

 

[Phil1320]

While we're on the topic, my punishment racing FMIC still had very quick spool up and no pressure drop when i was running the 14b.

Cool, yeah, I'm heatsoaking the EVO so no matter what I need a larger/thicker core.

Somebody should post a list of what it takes to run the 14b into 11's with a list of weight reduction.

I've done similar elswhere in the past, that would take me a while. But, if your relevance is a street car, than my list wouldn't apply anyway as all that's left in my car for safety is brake lights.

e85 will give you a more forgiving baseline due to the cooler temps and thus lower your detonation level (knock) Running E85 is more like running 110+ the benefits of alcohol. E98 on the other hand is likened to running higher end fuels beyond 116 with the additional benefits of alcohol multiplied of course due to the amount being increased.

Yeah, I heard about it's ability to battle detonation. Interesting info though, thanks. Not sure if I will ever try it. Like I said, if I can buy it at the pumps down the street, that would make the decision much more simple. But, until then, I'll stick with VP.

 

[bullettdsm]

Actually I think a "bigger" FMIC if anything, will help his spool and overall flow. A quality intercooler will probably have less pressure drop, mixed with much better cooling

Yup

but honestly you won't make more power on it then on C-16, but the cost is what makes it so awesome!

Yup

I would like to get DSMlink in the car and try to extract more power through proficient tuning.

Yup

There are still several things I want to do(cams & balance shaft removal to name a few)....The car has more in it without all that.

Yup

Hey buddy, I still follow the thread

MB

 

[Phil1320]

Yup


Yup


Yup


Yup

Hey buddy, I still follow the thread

MB

Nice! Glad to see you up here! I've been able to devote zero time to the talon this year. Bummer. At least I know what needs to be done before hitting the strip again!