T3 GT3076 vs FP3052

[krummel21]

Not to get off topic, but Staytuned how is your transmission holding up with that kind of power. Trying to find out if I'll be needing to upgrade after I install my fuel upgrades and cams.

Krummel21

 

[DSM90AWD]

Here is my best 3rd gear pull this fall. This was 30% 110 octane and 70% 94 octane and 27psi.

Looking at BoostEst, seems that although you reached ~29psi by 5K, your boost was down to 22.5psi by 7200 with an airflow max of 45lb-min. Is this what you saw?

 

[daren_p]

Looking at BoostEst, seems that although you reached ~29psi by 5K, your boost was down to 22.5psi by 7200 with an airflow max of 45lb-min. Is this what you saw?

Most of the time boostest isn't right on & usually only accurate around the 5000-6000 rpm range. I know my logs & most others I have seen always show the boost dropping off in the upper rpms, while in fact the boost stays constant all the way to redline. I would imagine this is the same for Steves log?

Actually this brings up another question what amount of boost are the 3052 & the 3065 able to hold to redline with out dropping off? & whats the max boost people run on both of these?

 

[DSM90AWD]

Most of the time boostest isn't right on & usually only accurate around the 5000-6000 rpm range. I know my logs & most others I have seen always show the boost dropping off in the upper rpms, while in fact the boost stays constant all the way to redline. I would imagine this is the same for Steves log?

It may also be because Steve's relying on the VE table not the MAF for anything > 2K Hz. Mine is set to 2.4K Hz and my VE (as I'd calibrated it) is still 96% at 7500 RPM.

I was just curious as I'm pulling 48lb-min by 7200 RPM (49.5 by 7500) with 23psi on a smaller turbo (50-trim) and my boost est is very close to logged boost the whole pull

 

[daren_p]

It may also be because Steve's relying on the VE table not the MAF for anything > 2K Hz. Mine is set to 2.4K Hz and my VE (as I'd calibrated it) is still 96% at 7500 RPM.

I was just curious as I'm pulling 48lb-min by 7200 RPM (49.5 by 7500) with 23psi on a smaller turbo (50-trim) and my boost est is very close to logged boost the whole pull

Interesting, looks like you have a SMIM & that combined with the 1g head & TB probably makes up the flow differences. I believe Steve has a stock 2g head (just cams) & the 2g intake and TB.

 

[Staytuned]

Not to get off topic, but Staytuned how is your transmission holding up with that kind of power. Trying to find out if I'll be needing to upgrade after I install my fuel upgrades and cams.

Krummel21

Fine so far, it's a little notchy going from 1-2 at higher RPM.

 

[Staytuned]

Looking at BoostEst, seems that although you reached ~29psi by 5K, your boost was down to 22.5psi by 7200 with an airflow max of 45lb-min. Is this what you saw?

Boostest may have spiked a little due to crushed 1G BOV not holding. I can post a log at 20 psi and you don't any spike in Boostest at all.

That's my theory anyway.

 

[Staytuned]

I think our airflow differences could easily be summed up by our intake systems. I have 2 1/4 IC piping leading to a 1G TB and stock 2G head plus 272 cams. You have 2 1/2 IC piping to a JM SMIM and a 1G head. I am hoping for a lot more airflow after the upgrades I am doing this winter.

 

[definitiveno]

I know this might not change much but after talking with nick at straightlinespecialties last night, he can make an O2 housing that will fit the GT band clamp turbine housing. I am definatly going to go with this, will post pics as soon as I get some thing from nick.

The angle on the fp O2 housing is very accute, makes curious to see what nick can produce.

 

[daren_p]

I know this might not change much but after talking with nick at straightlinespecialties last night, he can make an O2 housing that will fit the GT band clamp turbine housing. I am definatly going to go with this, will post pics as soon as I get some thing from nick.

The angle on the fp O2 housing is very accute, makes curious to see what nick can produce.

Hmmm interesting, now will this bolt up to a stock location 3" downpipe or will you be running a custom pipe as well & what mani will it be designed to work with?

 

[definitiveno]

Hmmm interesting, now will this bolt up to a stock location 3" downpipe or will you be running a custom pipe as well & what mani will it be designed to work with?

Nick is away til monday possibly tuesday, let me see if I can get him to comment on the fitment of these housings personally so i don't jack any thing up.

 

[BrokenTsi]

Why not just get fp's o2 housing? I used it and you can bolt on a stock style downpipe. Its not THAT expensive, and it includes the $30 clamp and everything.

 

[definitiveno]

The new ones they have pictured look like garbage compared to their old ones, I don't remember their O2's being rediused cuts.

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[2gAWDTalon]

It seems like to 3052 is like a 50 trim other then the fact that it is a BB... (I know it is a GT30... I am refering to airflow production). Just like DSM90AWD I have a 50 trim, bolt on PTE housing and I am getting better airflow then the 3052 log I have seen. The log named 11062006-2.dat was on 25-26 psi, pump gas... 49+ lbs/min., I have since made some tunning changes and I see 49lbs now at 23lbs of boost. 11122006-3.dat was on 21lbs of boost and I 45lbs/min. Seems to me if you are only looking for a 50 trim type power level, that that is cool. With as much effort you are putting into this mabey you should get a bigger reward... like 65lbs/min

I also wanted to say that I hear alot about 'goals that can be reached' in this thread. IMO, say your goal is 450whp..., Sure you can reach that on the 3052, and you can also reach it on a 3065. I think that you will reach it at a lower boost level on the 3065 and that would lead to less streess on the motor. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[daren_p]

Okay people are getting confussed here, Im going to run a FP O2 sensor housing, definitiveno is talking about an O2 housing that won't even work on a FP turbo. FP turbos use a vband clamp & the O2 housing he is talking about is the T3 GT 4 bolt housing, I was just curious if they were going to be able to fab one up for that turbine housing that will meet up with a stock location downpipe as it doesn't seem to be that easy to do. Not sure where you got the idea that I was going to run one of these with an FP turbo.

The FP 3052 is not like a 50 trim, its not a huge turbo but its about mid way between the 50 trim & 60 trim. It is like any other turbo, the amount of airflow you get out of it are based on your mods & VE. A 50 trim is rated as a 45 lb/min compressor or ~450 crank HP, we all know this turbo is under rated (you just proved it yourself). The the 3052 is a GT3076 which is a 52 lb/min compressor or ~520 crank hp. It has been proven many times that this turbo is also underrated as guys have made over 500 awhp on these & run 10's. Its like any other turbo its all in the supporting mods. Its like saying my 50 trim is better becasue it flows the same as a guy with a 3052 with a stock 2g head while I run a ported 1g head with cams, SMIM, bored TB etc etc, this is just a pointless comparison. The 3065 is a 65 lb/min compressor & you can run 9's with it. Do I really need a 9 second turbo on my daily driven, non built 7 bolt motor? I prefer to maximize what I have & not go with the trend of my car isn't fast enough so I'll just slap on this huge turbo & that should help. This is the same reason my evoIII will run circles around many 50 trim equipped cars, since their running turbos that aren't properly supported.

 

[Caithness]

Well I think you should step up to a 4294R so you can make 450 at only ~18 psi. Which it will make after 5500 rpm.




BTW, from the compressor maps I've seen, the t04e 60 trim is not a bigger/better turbo than the t04e 50 trim. The map is a little bit wider (~51 lbs/min compared to ~49 lbs/min) but at a completely-worthlessly-low pressure ratio (~18 psi equivalent) that won't put you on that part of the map in a DSM. So unless this "60 trim" people talk about is something else, it's actually a step down from a t04e 50 trim.

I think the FP3052 is an excellent turbo. Given your goals, go for it. Despite the trend, not everybody needs or wants a 35R or a T67 or what have you.

 

[daren_p]

Well I think you should step up to a 4294R so you can make 450 at only ~18 psi. Which it will make after 5500 rpm.




BTW, from the compressor maps I've seen, the t04e 60 trim is not a bigger/better turbo than the t04e 50 trim. The map is a little bit wider (~51 lbs/min compared to ~49 lbs/min) but at a completely-worthlessly-low pressure ratio (~18 psi equivalent) that won't put you on that part of the map in a DSM. So unless this "60 trim" people talk about is something else, it's actually a step down from a t04e 50 trim.

I think the FP3052 is an excellent turbo. Given your goals, go for it. Despite the trend, not everybody needs or wants a 35R or a T67 or what have you.

Yes your right, I was just using the 60 trim for comparison as far as comp flow goes. When I looked at the 60 trim I wasn't impressed with the map at all & its defently not a turbo I would consider for our applications.

 

[definitiveno]

FYI daren I am talking with Straightline about using the vband gt housing as it should keep a slightly tighter profile. Will know for sure by tomorrow what we are gonna put together. Keep you posted.

 

[BrokenTsi]

The new ones they have pictured look like garbage compared to their old ones, I don't remember their O2's being rediused cuts.

That's fp's o2 housing? Weird. Im sure there are more options then that. Call em up and see if they still make the direct bolt on one.

 

[Steve93Talon]

That's fp's o2 housing? Weird. Im sure there are more options then that. Call em up and see if they still make the direct bolt on one.

http://linux.forcedperformance.net/...oduct_Code=O2FP3025&Category_Code=DSM-Exhaust

 

[definitiveno]

Well daren every thing has been confirmed. Nick at SLS is building me an O2 housing for the GT series V-band turbine housing. He let on to zero apprehension about the fit being too tight, and said that the mani is done and the O2 housing should also be done very soon. Nothing I can do but show you pictures of it when it gets here, but it should look a little different from regular O2's. Mine will be 6 inches longer, with a much lower dump re-route entry, and Vbands on both sides. I am goping to modify the downpipe by cutting a few inches off and installing a Vband onto it.

Will continue to update as they come, next hopefully with pics.

 

[oldman]

Well daren every thing has been confirmed. Nick at SLS is building me an O2 housing for the GT series V-band turbine housing. He let on to zero apprehension about the fit being too tight, and said that the mani is done and the O2 housing should also be done very soon. Nothing I can do but show you pictures of it when it gets here, but it should look a little different from regular O2's. Mine will be 6 inches longer, with a much lower dump re-route entry, and Vbands on both sides. I am goping to modify the downpipe by cutting a few inches off and installing a Vband onto it.

Will continue to update as they come, next hopefully with pics.

Let's hope it gets there before next Christmas.

 

[definitiveno]

Let's hope it gets there before next Christmas.

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[daren_p]

Well daren every thing has been confirmed. Nick at SLS is building me an O2 housing for the GT series V-band turbine housing. He let on to zero apprehension about the fit being too tight, and said that the mani is done and the O2 housing should also be done very soon. Nothing I can do but show you pictures of it when it gets here, but it should look a little different from regular O2's. Mine will be 6 inches longer, with a much lower dump re-route entry, and Vbands on both sides. I am goping to modify the downpipe by cutting a few inches off and installing a Vband onto it.

Will continue to update as they come, next hopefully with pics.

Should be an interesting setup, defently post some pics when you get the pieces & do the install. Sounds like this setup will still line up with you stock DP location, just making the DP shorter for the longer O2 housing? Do you know if the mani will place the turbine inlet in the stock location or will it be shifted towards the passenger side to aid in clearance?

 

[AHALLA05]

Well after several weeks of keeping up with Daren P`s thread ive finally decided to chime in and try to get some feed back from other people as to where i should go with my setup. I didnt know whether to start a new thread or not so i just decided to jump into this one since i am kind of in darens situation.(if you think this belongs as a new thread just let me know)

I found a killer deal several months back on a T3 gt3076 and just couldnt pass it up. Its engraved into the compressor housing that is a pte 3076rle with the 3"compressor housing(the E housing i believe) and a five bolt exhaust housing. I just cant decide on with route to go with it. Keep it T3 or Switch to a mitsu style housing. I researched all of the possibilities and am still undecided. I think ive found every T3 manifold made for the 4g63 . Out of all the possibilities ive brought it down to three

1. Keep the T3 housing and invest in a t3 manifold. With out spending over $500 on a good tubular and still being good quality i have found the T3 treadstone manifold. It is a replica of the turbonetics manifold and is cast which should yield years of abuse. As for an O2 housing i was just gonna make my own along with the rest of the exhaust.

2. Next is the option of switching to a mistu turbine housing.First with the thought of budget in mind i have looked at the bullseye housing. I thought i couldnt go wrong with thier new stainless steel version, but after reading other peoples reviews on bullseyes housing and the slim amount of dsmers running it, kind of strayed me away. Another thing i had to look at was a place to mount the external gate with i would be running. After searching other sites for O2 housings for external gates i found 300 dollar price tags which ment the price of the turbine housing and o2 housing together would practically add up to a good tubular manifold.

3. Lastly was the other option with the mitsu housing. The forced performance cast turbine housing. I could keep my jet coated 2g manifold and run my 30r with a housing actually made specifically made for it. The only draw backs were 550 price tag for it along with the fact of having to run the 40mm gate instead of the 38 which i origionally planned.

So those are just the options ive been trying to decide over for months and ive decided its time to get some opinions and maybe find some people who have been down this route. Im open to anything and am a firm believer that you get what you pay for but im also trying to keep costs down. Thanks for all of the input A.J.