T3 GT3076 vs FP3052

[daren_p]

Have you ran the turbo hard yet? What do you think so far? I 'm thinking about picking up either a 20g, Green, or 3052/3076.

What do you consider hard? For much of the summer I was running 22-23 psi daily with meth injection, seeing 17-18 deg advance by redline. At these levels it pulled very nicely & you wouldn't have trouble out running 99% of the other cars on the road (though I do not street race). Have also ran it at 25-26 psi at the track, again with meth injection an some NOS octane booster. It pulls nice & hard at these levels, my setup isn't geared to top end power but still see 42-43 lb/min by 6500 rpms, where my airflow flatlines. That was with a stock 2g intake mani & head with FP1X cams which are designed to make power in the 4000-6000 range. I'll be swapping to an evoIII intake mani this spring so hopefully this free's the topend abit. With a better flowing topend setup you will easily gain more then a couple lb/min at these levels. With the proper setup I don't see any problem seeing the 52 lb/min this turbo is rated for.....

 

[pickens]

Nice. How's the difference (seat of the pants feel) in spool compared to the Evo16g? Is not really a big deal?

I think I'm going to pick up the PTE 3076r. Same turbo just different turbine a/r.

 

[daren_p]

As for spool, honestly I'd have to say I like the 3052 better, especially for a fwd. I was a little worried about spool before I got the 3052 as when I ran the evoIII it seemed to be like a light switch off & then on, ie no boost & then full boost all at once. After the initial hit it seemed to taper off all the way to redline. My evoIII fulley spooled around the 34-3500 range. I was worried that since the 3052 wouldn't fully spool till the 4000+ range it would have nothing in the lower rpm range. Turnes out it start to build boost right around the 3000rpm mark or slightly less & then progressively builds boost till you see full spool, with abit of a "kick" near the end of initial spool. Being more linear its much easier to control breaking the tires lose & yet still nice for a daily driver. As for between shift boost recovery, I didn't even really notice a difference between it & my evoIII, where as this is defently an area that you'd notice on a turbo of this size running a std. thrust bearing.


The PTE version is abit cheeper & defently has a good amount in it as well. Though it won't be able to produce as much power as the FP3052 will, because of the stock Mitsu styled asymetrical turbine housing with a smaller A/R. Thats the one thing I didn't like about the PTE setup, you could only get it in the smaller .48AR, which I though would be limiting top end potential abit. Though it will spool quicker. The FP turbine housing will flow just like a .68 A/R T3 housing but still in a "bolt-on" (well sorta ) package.

If I had to go with the more typical Mitsu bolt on, I think I'd probably choose the Bullseye setup, as it should have a slight flow advantage vs the PTE housing. Only issue is, can't run the factory lower heat shield with their housing (if this is an issue for you).

 

[Black_Bullet]

Any more updates on this turbo. I am plannin on getting this turbo sometime by the end of the year of 08 once i have my car painted and cams and a few other bolt ons. I plan on running bc 272s now so i hope they perform better with this turbo than the fp1 cams do as I am gearing the set up for more higher rpm range for maximum flow out of this snail. Ive already decieded that my car will never have the low end torque that I want even with quicker spool so i dont mind a little lag, but given my goals, I am agreeing with Daren P's position of going with the 3052 vs the 3065... Yea a bigger turbo would def give more room to grow but I look at it more like a rev limit... Because either turbo I get i WILL try to max out, but the 3052 will stop me right at/ around/ or not too much past my goals versus me getting the 3065 I will surely over do it and get ambitious and max out that turbo and surpass my goals and end up breaking stuff or getting into trouble eventually. My end goal with the car is 450whp give or take, or 125-130ish mph traps; which ever comes first...
( Poor college student with no money. Cant get too carried away like some of you guys )

Daren P changing out to a smic and fp2x cams w/ 1g tb will likely net you another 3-4lb min of air flow IMO.

 

[daren_p]

Daren P changing out to a smic and fp2x cams w/ 1g tb will likely net you another 3-4lb min of air flow IMO.

I believe you mean changing out to a SMIM & not to smic

I'm already running a bored out 2g TB, thats 60mm (& flow is equal to 62.5mm because of half shaft mod) but yes, as I had mentioned before my cams & stock IM are probably hurting my top end. As you mentioned, swapping to those items, I would expect to see a 3-4 lb/min increase in top end airflow, no problem. Issue is the cars fwd, so have to get NOx tested for emissions. With my current FP1X cams, I just barely squeeked by last time (reading was 500, limit was 505). So not sure if I could pass running larger cams, even with tweeking my tune. That was my main consideration when purchasing the cams I did, otherwise a 272 varient would be the cam of my choice.

Cops are becoming a royal pain over here & most of their attitudes are every import is a street racer. I already get enough hassles as it is, so adding something that stands out as much as a SMIM does, is something I don't want to deal with. The evoIII mani that I'll be running this summer does have much shorter runners vs the stock 1g & 2g IM's so I'm hoping that will free up my top end abit.

If I end up finding a doner car & convert mine to awd, I wouldn't think twice about swapping to a 272 cam as they don't have to deal with NOx emissions testing

I'm not currently driving the car (in storage for winter), so no recent updates but is there anything else specific you were wondering? Last time at the track I was trapping 113 mph on pump & meth around 24-25psi but I would expect an awd car to pick up a few mph on that same tune. They have the slightly shorter gear ratio but more importantly, they have traction. My first gear & most of the time second as well are pretty useless. I've got Hooser drag radials for next summer, so hopefully will gain a few mph on the same tune (plus drop the horrible ET alot).

Another member on this board was running high 11's & trapping @ 122 with the 3052, in a 1g awd, with pump gas. Guys have ran 135-140mph with this turbo, which I would say would be maxing it out.

 

[DarthBulk]

I don't know much about DSM Link, but with my setup I passed the emissions test with flying colors. I use the FP2 cams and have a bored out 1G throttle body, 2.4L G4CS block, and the FP3052 turbo. I am FWD as well. You can see all my mods in my profile. I know what you mean about 1st and 2nd gear being worthless. Where my setup really shines is at highway speeds. I intend on installing an LSD in the spring, and trying out some tires with better grip

 

[Black_Bullet]

I believe you mean changing out to a SMIM & not to smic

I'm already running a bored out 2g TB, thats 60mm (& flow is equal to 62.5mm because of half shaft mod) but yes, as I had mentioned before my cams & stock IM are probably hurting my top end. As you mentioned, swapping to those items, I would expect to see a 3-4 lb/min increase in top end airflow, no problem. Issue is the cars fwd, so have to get NOx tested for emissions. With my current FP1X cams, I just barely squeeked by last time (reading was 500, limit was 505). So not sure if I could pass running larger cams, even with tweeking my tune. That was my main consideration when purchasing the cams I did, otherwise a 272 varient would be the cam of my choice.

Cops are becoming a royal pain over here & most of their attitudes are every import is a street racer. I already get enough hassles as it is, so adding something that stands out as much as a SMIM does, is something I don't want to deal with. The evoIII mani that I'll be running this summer does have much shorter runners vs the stock 1g & 2g IM's so I'm hoping that will free up my top end abit.

If I end up finding a doner car & convert mine to awd, I wouldn't think twice about swapping to a 272 cam as they don't have to deal with NOx emissions testing

I'm not currently driving the car (in storage for winter), so no recent updates but is there anything else specific you were wondering? Last time at the track I was trapping 113 mph on pump & meth around 24-25psi but I would expect an awd car to pick up a few mph on that same tune. They have the slightly shorter gear ratio but more importantly, they have traction. My first gear & most of the time second as well are pretty useless. I've got Hooser drag radials for next summer, so hopefully will gain a few mph on the same tune (plus drop the horrible ET alot).

Another member on this board was running high 11's & trapping @ 122 with the 3052, in a 1g awd, with pump gas. Guys have ran 135-140mph with this turbo, which I would say would be maxing it out.

Wow and what altitude is this at? My car has already managed 115mph traps in the 1/4 on the evo3 with all stock motor and race gas and 25lbs/26 degs of timing 11.5.1 tune...
Then again im a gutted 1g and your probably a full weight 2g also. At least a 300lb wt difference im assuming.
I just always thought high powered fwds had good trap speeds despite low ets... Unless you spun down half the track. And I dont completley follow you on the emission testing technical stuff, considering ive never had to do an emission test in my life

I don't know much about DSM Link, but with my setup I passed the emissions test with flying colors. I use the FP2 cams and have a bored out 1G throttle body, 2.4L G4CS block, and the FP3052 turbo. I am FWD as well. You can see all my mods in my profile. I know what you mean about 1st and 2nd gear being worthless. Where my setup really shines is at highway speeds. I intend on installing an LSD in the spring, and trying out some tires with better grip

Heh, I remember my fwd days. But back then when I was younger burning out in 2nd gear and chirping the crap out of 3rd with a nlts used to be cool! Until I hit the track it was cool at least... I bet you guys are sick on the high way though. Dark Bulk your traction must be pretty retarded considering your 2.4 3052 set up. I bet those obese tires you have on there still break traction in 3rd gear.

 

[DarthBulk]

Yes, I am pretty slow off the line, it is true I never intended this to be a drag setup. But on the highway, I am a rocket. That's what I was looking for. I am hoping that an LSD will help somewhat in the lower gears. If the pavement is wet, I have trouble even starting out. The ACT 2600 doesn't help that, either.

 

[daren_p]

I don't know much about DSM Link, but with my setup I passed the emissions test with flying colors. I use the FP2 cams and have a bored out 1G throttle body, 2.4L G4CS block, and the FP3052 turbo. I am FWD as well. You can see all my mods in my profile. I know what you mean about 1st and 2nd gear being worthless. Where my setup really shines is at highway speeds. I intend on installing an LSD in the spring, and trying out some tires with better grip

Do you have to do a "loaded" dyno test as well & they check for NOx? Alot of the states don't test for NOx just HC's & CO. It's the NOx thats the issue, if I didn't have to have the NOx tested, I don't think 272 cams would be an issue either as my CO & HC's aren't close to the limits. With DSMLink I can pull some timing in the area affected, to lower the NOx but it will also increase the other areas.

 

[DarthBulk]

I would have to go back and check my emissions test report to be certain of that. I know they put the car on a dyno, and had to follow a driving profile (loading up the engine) that was being displayed on a monitor in front of the car. I don't know if they checked the NOx during this portion or not, however. I do know there was a NOx rating on the report, but it is possible that test was only done during idle.
Are you running a cat?

 

[daren_p]

Wow and what altitude is this at? My car has already managed 115mph traps in the 1/4 on the evo3 with all stock motor and race gas and 25lbs/26 degs of timing 11.5.1 tune...
Then again im a gutted 1g and your probably a full weight 2g also. At least a 300lb wt difference im assuming.
I just always thought high powered fwds had good trap speeds despite low ets... Unless you spun down half the track. And I dont completley follow you on the emission testing technical stuff, considering ive never had to do an emission test in my life



Heh, I remember my fwd days. But back then when I was younger burning out in 2nd gear and chirping the crap out of 3rd with a nlts used to be cool! Until I hit the track it was cool at least... I bet you guys are sick on the high way though. Dark Bulk your traction must be pretty retarded considering your 2.4 3052 set up. I bet those obese tires you have on there still break traction in 3rd gear.

Not at a high altitude, around 680 ft here but there are several factors against me vs your setup & think being fwd is the biggest. I was basically running a pump gas tune as the X series of cams tend to be knock happy & I only had a small M5 nozzle installed. So my air/fuel was around the 10.5 to 1 range & seeing 17-18 deg by redline. Mine is a full weight 2g, I take mine to the track basically the same way as its on the street (minus the fiberglass sub enclosure). These runs were done on Kumho MX rubber, so their descently sticky but in a 225/40/18 size, they are pretty useless at the track as they just don't have any sidewall flex.

Fwd's do have high trap speeds compared to their horrible ET's but their speeds are still normally lower then a comparable power awd. All I can say is use about 20-30% throttle in the first 2 gears & then see how fast you trap . To compare mid 16 second cars are right beside me till I spool in third, then I leave them like they stopped moving

 

[daren_p]

I would have to go back and check my emissions test report to be certain of that. I know they put the car on a dyno, and had to follow a driving profile (loading up the engine) that was being displayed on a monitor in front of the car. I don't know if they checked the NOx during this portion or not, however. I do know there was a NOx rating on the report, but it is possible that test was only done during idle.

They can only test for NOx under load (can't test at idle, which is why awd's don't get tested for this as they do a 2 stage idle test here (no awd dyno's at the emission test stations)), so they more then likely tested you for NOx. If you can find your test, I'd defently be interested in the readings & what the test limits are. Haven't come across much fwd & 272 cam emission info. If I though I could pass with a larger cam, I'd probably up my cam size.

 

[LRS95TSI]

daren p:
i know what you mean about the throttle issue in second...i recently upgraded to a pte 3227e after owning the evo3...right now at 16psi and new to dsmlink my throttle position is terrible...i have to feather it very carefully to hold traction, the only thing i miss about the safc was the tps display... i learned with my evo3 to go 100% and right when it spooled i backed off to a specific % to hold traction.

i'm glad you went with the 3052, do you have it coupled with their exh mani? too bad your in canada, our cars would look hella good together in a photo shoot!

 

[hahnsuper16g]

Daren P finally got proven member status and wanted to chime in as you and i had pmed on the 3052. Finally got the car fully tuned and this turbo is Phenomenal. I decided to go with TREs stage 3 transmission with the 16% taller fifth gear and it all works extremly well on my setup. I am boosting 22-24 psi on pump and this turbo pulls in all gears even 5th. I currently have my redline dialed in at about 75-7600 rpms and the turbo pulls all the way till redline. The numbers in my profile are on pump gas but on race i have had the boost at 26-27 psi and saw the numbers jump to 470 whp and 380ft pounds of tourque. This turbo loves big boost and is a prefect turbo for either FWD or AWD.

DarthBulk the lsd will help you tremendously I am currently running the kaaz and it does help. I mean i still break the tires loose including 3rd gear on the highway if I hammer it but tourque steer is minimized and i can feel the difference in the traction. I too ran a trap speed of 114 mph but i ran the 1/4 mile at 13.9 because i was on street tires and spinning all the way through 3rd. I am currently replacing the clutch as the 2600 with street disc is not enough for 352ft lbs of tourqe at the wheels.

 

[pickens]

hahnsuper16g, I checked out your dyno sheet. How did you manage a 12:1 A/F ratio on pump gas

Were you using 100octane pump gas or standard 91-93 octane?

 

[DarthBulk]

Daren P finally got proven member status and wanted to chime in as you and i had pmed on the 3052. Finally got the car fully tuned and this turbo is Phenomenal. I decided to go with TREs stage 3 transmission with the 16% taller fifth gear and it all works extremly well on my setup. I am boosting 22-24 psi on pump and this turbo pulls in all gears even 5th. I currently have my redline dialed in at about 75-7600 rpms and the turbo pulls all the way till redline. The numbers in my profile are on pump gas but on race i have had the boost at 26-27 psi and saw the numbers jump to 470 whp and 380ft pounds of tourque. This turbo loves big boost and is a prefect turbo for either FWD or AWD.

DarthBulk the lsd will help you tremendously I am currently running the kaaz and it does help. I mean i still break the tires loose including 3rd gear on the highway if I hammer it but tourque steer is minimized and i can feel the difference in the traction. I too ran a trap speed of 114 mph but i ran the 1/4 mile at 13.9 because i was on street tires and spinning all the way through 3rd. I am currently replacing the clutch as the 2600 with street disc is not enough for 352ft lbs of tourqe at the wheels.

That's what I wanted to hear, anything to get me some traction in the lower gears. I have been leaning toward the KAAZ as well. From the differences in the two types I have read about, the KAAZ sounds more like what I want. I don't care about noise in parking lots. I can't hear anything over my exhaust anyway. Do you have any issues with the KAAZ?
The 3052 on a 2.4L really is a highway rocket (boost is right on the verge of hitting, at highway speeds), but in low gears traction is a serious issue.

 

[90laserRSfwd]

FP 3052 + 2.4L stroker = traction problems ? WTF How can that be? (that was a sarcastic remark BTW)

 

[daren_p]

Daren P finally got proven member status and wanted to chime in as you and i had pmed on the 3052. Finally got the car fully tuned and this turbo is Phenomenal. I decided to go with TREs stage 3 transmission with the 16% taller fifth gear and it all works extremly well on my setup. I am boosting 22-24 psi on pump and this turbo pulls in all gears even 5th. I currently have my redline dialed in at about 75-7600 rpms and the turbo pulls all the way till redline. The numbers in my profile are on pump gas but on race i have had the boost at 26-27 psi and saw the numbers jump to 470 whp and 380ft pounds of tourque. This turbo loves big boost and is a prefect turbo for either FWD or AWD.

DarthBulk the lsd will help you tremendously I am currently running the kaaz and it does help. I mean i still break the tires loose including 3rd gear on the highway if I hammer it but tourque steer is minimized and i can feel the difference in the traction. I too ran a trap speed of 114 mph but i ran the 1/4 mile at 13.9 because i was on street tires and spinning all the way through 3rd. I am currently replacing the clutch as the 2600 with street disc is not enough for 352ft lbs of tourqe at the wheels.

Good to hear your up & running again. Those are defently some nice pump numbers, I haven't had the car to the dyno but figured I was probably right around the 370 whp range on my pump/meth tune with 24 psi. So yours pulls strong all the way to the redline? My sweet spot seems to be to shift right around 7200 rpms in third (7500 1st & 2nd) as power seems to drop off if I go any higher. I'm not sure if my cams or the 2g IM are mostly to blame, though I'm leaning towards the IM as I have seen other similar setups running 272 cams with a stock 2g IM & there airflow flatens out around 6500 as well. I'm hoping the new IM will free it up abit, if not may swap cams in the long run. Sounds like your seeing good flow uptop even with the 264/272 combo.


I run the Quaife LSD & it defently helped in the traction department. My car seems to be limited to the 13.6-13.7 range on the street tires. Last couple times at the track, I've ran these numbers consistantly but can't seem to manage any better with street tires. My average 60 ft, is probably right around 2.5 (personal best of 2.38 at one track I go to & 2.29 at the other) so you can see whats really hurting my time. With the Hoosiers I picked up, Im hoping for a more respectable 2.0 60 ft & anything less would be great. Don't want to set my goals to high (know I have the power to go faster, just not sure about the traction) but am really hoping to see consistant mid 12's with the new rubber. If this doesn't happen I don't think I have any choice but to do an awd swap

 

[pickens]

Daren P - I ended up picking up an AWD just because of the traction limits. On street tires I was able to run a 13.5. Picked up a set of BFG drag radials and went 12.8-12.9 with 2.0-2.1 60' times. Even with the BFG's I would have to baby 2nd gear while shifting. I would say go straight to slicks or awd.

 

[hahnsuper16g]

hahnsuper16g, I checked out your dyno sheet. How did you manage a 12:1 A/F ratio on pump gas

Were you using 100octane pump gas or standard 91-93 octane?

I decided to go with the apexi power FC as my EMS because i am a big JDM nut and 90% of the high powered cars in japan either run the power FC or the hks F- con pro. That's the first part of the equation. I know a lot of dsmrs like the link or the aem but IMO those are dinosaurs of the tunning world and the power FC is so much better. I mean the FC comander allows you to monitor all that you need and eliminates a lot of the guages that you would need on the dsm link and the aem. It also eliminates the need for a labtop because you can pull your whole map up and tune it on the fly. I paid under 1000 dollars for mine and it is a full stand alone. The shop that tuned my car is Adrenaline Motorsports and the guy that tuned my car Charles Litterst is a genius with the power FC as well as most other tunning devices. I am not running any additives just good old 93 octane to get those numbers and as you can see my AFR is almost completely level across the entire map. I am also running a map from an evo. I mean he recalibrated my MAS and got my car to run off the evo map. It took him two days on the tune but as you said i have almost a perfect afr all across the board. Again man the power FC is a major part of it as i believe it is a better tuning device for less and it does come in speed density as well. If you live close or want to call him just go to the link i posted. By the way the afr is actually 11:5:1 if i am not mistaken so i am still a little rich and could squeeze out more on the 93 octane but i am very happy with the overall performance of the car. I mean if you look at the power and the tourque it really doesn't fall off that much till redline. The red graph is where i started off untuned and the blue is where i ended up at.

Darth the kaaz is in my opinion better than the quaife for overall performance. I mean the kaaz is way more agressive but on the downside when it wears you have to buy the clutch plates to have it rebuilt. I think you'll be satisfied either way you go but the kaaz is definatly a more racier type diff.

 

[sickgsx-316]

If I'm not mistaken arent you supposed to change the oil in the Kaaz units every 6-10k miles or run the risk of wearing out the clutch plates prematurely? At 40-50 bucks for the kaaz oil thats another thing to take into account when deciding between the two. I think the Kaaz is the better unit for performance but on an everyday driver I'd opt for the Quaife due to it needing less service than the other and as DSMers we already have enough work to be doing on our cars regularly.

 

[Black_Bullet]

With the cost of these lsds thats about half the cost of doing a awd swap on a 2g car if you were doing the work yourself... Just thinking out loud..

 

[DarthBulk]

I would love to do an AWD swap, but I installed a 20 gallon fuel cell in the back on my Talon (that took a good many hours to accomplish). If I were to do an AWD swap, I would have to start over with my fuel system too.

 

[daren_p]

This is an oldie but seems to be getting alot of views, so figured I'd update abit of info as I'm still running this turbo. Last year (when fwd) on drag radials, pump gas & meth injection with boost right around 26psi I was able to run 12.2 @ 119 (w/not super 2.0 60ft). Was in the fall, so cooler air temps but at that boost seeing around 47 or so, lb/min.

I'm still running the FP1X cams (again not designed for max top end flow) but with these numbers, I had swapped to an evoIII intake mani, FP exhaust mani & most importantly ditched the Apexi N1 catback for a real flowing, custom 3" exhaust.

I swapped my 3" HF CAT for a 3" metal core CAT this spring which inturn did give me a slight improvement in flow as well. Currently on the street tune @ 25psi seeing 48-49 lb/min with typical summer air temps. I have yet to get to the track this year with breaking in all the new awd swap components but when I go I'll probably up the boost slightly.

So I have no doubt this turbo is easily capable of its rated 52 lb/min, I should see that airflow with around 28-29psi and again, my setup isn't ideal for max airflow. Add things like larger cams that would be better suited for this turbo, a SMIM, some head work & most importantly, still room to play with boost & you should be well outflowing that 52 lb/min number.

As a side note, with the better flowing upgrades I posted above, I now typically see 20psi right around the 4000rpms mark. Nothing in the tune has been done to increase spool, as I'm more then happy with this turbos response, as it is. This turbo does start to build boost below 3000rpms, so it does have some "go" in the 3000-4000 range, not completely gutless like I was origionally worried about years ago when I made the turbo decision.

 

[Brianawd]

FP3052 is a great turbo. I put down 562awhp and 484awtq at 30psi on a 2.0. Now looking to upgrade to the hta wheel and new comp cover to see if I can brake 600awhp.