Starting issues - No / Doesn't / Won't Start - MERGED

[prodsm]

All "my car won't start" discussion threads are merged HERE. We've basically made it easier for those who insist upon not searching by grouping together all threads from those with similar issues so you can just scroll through and see some possible solutions. To search for info within this thread, use the "Search This Thread" feature in the black bar about 3" above what you're reading right now.

Could be anything from a loose battery terminal to internal engine damage, and literally everything in between which may involve the electrical, fuel, and ignition system...possibly even something that you screwed up while working on the car yourself. While it's unlikely we're going to diagnose and solve your problem over the internet, feel free to discuss any possible solutions.



I live in Canada and right now its not very warm out, about -30c
my car does not have a block heater too keep it warm.

I tryed to start my car this morning and it wouldent start, ive had this problem before but this time, the car doesnt crank at all it just makes a sound that sounds like an electric drill.

Whats wrong.

Thanks

 

[bradselph]

Does make sense after thinking about it, will check it out tomorrow after work with a multimeter.

 

[PrettyBoy23]

Keep us updated as my friends car is doing the same. Lets us know how it went.

 

[805DSM]

Sounds like the coolant temp sensor went bad on you. Its gonna be at the bottom of the radiator next to the lower radiator hose in the radiator.

 

[SrKegler]

Sounds like the coolant temp sensor went bad on you. Its gonna be at the bottom of the radiator next to the lower radiator hose in the radiator.

Bad info. That sensor is for the low coolant level warning light.

Besides, he already replaced the CTS.

To the OP: To me it sounds like a fuel problem. Do you have a way of checking the fuel pressure.

 

[dexterholland04]

Kind of stupid thing to ask, but you never know...did you delete the bottom half of the throttle body with a block-off plate? My car has no idle when it's cold, even when its warm out.

 

[805DSM]

Bad info. That sensor is for the low coolant level warning light.

Besides, he already replaced the CTS.

To the OP: To me it sounds like a fuel problem. Do you have a way of checking the fuel pressure.

Yea , got confused and MENT the coolant temp sensor on the Thermostat Housing.

 

[SrKegler]

No biggy, just didn't want him replacing an unnecessary sensor. I can't figure out whyhe"s having problems. No cold start usually means the ECU is reading cold temp and flooding the engine out. Since he can use starting fluid it seems like it would have even more excess fuel.

Wonder if it's a weak fuel pump and is losing pressure after it sets and cools off. Some simple problems turn into nightmares.

 

[805DSM]

It could be the fuel pump going bad,.. Its not creating enough pressure to start the car amd when it does it overworks and overheats.

 

[racer-of-rice]

Fuel pump fo sho very common here in colorado to see a pump getting weak and not having enough pressure to run than it gets a little warm out and works fine.
Thats were I would start.

 

[bradselph]

coil packs test ok like i said before i have spark on all 4

im getting fuel to rail.
injectors resistance is ok

haven't tested the power transistor as it started raining

could it be possible 1 and 2 injectors are stuck open flooding the engine

also normally my wideband would creep to lean when i leave the key on now it creeps to full rich

 

[gofer]

I'm going to try and knock out EVERYTHING it could possibly be, both ignition and fuel. The quickest and easiest to check is ignition at the cylinders so I'll start there, and I suggest you start all over. Who knows if something was missed or overlooked, I don't know how many times I was scratching my head for days trying to find something like this and it ended up being simple.

VERIFY ECU OPERATION

1. Turn the key to the "ON" position and watch for the CEL to illuminate, it should come on for approximately 5 seconds and then go off. In addition to watching the CEL, also watch the stock boost gauge, the needle should move halfway up the gauge.
   • It NEVER lights up: The ECU might have a blown sensor ground or the 20A MOTOR fuse, in the fusebox under the hood, is blown or missing (my friends like taking mine). The 2g ECU sensor ground is Pin 92 (2g ECU Pinout) and can be visually checked by pulling the casing off the ECU and looking at the solder run. Below is a picture of a REPAIRED sensor ground that was blown, thanks ECMLink! You can check continuity with a multimeter between pin 92 and the solder point where the red arrows pointing.
   • It DOESN'T go off: The ECU has a DTC stored on it and you'll want to hook up a scanner to see what it is.

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VERIFY SPARK AT ALL (4) CYLINDERS

1. You'll want to check that spark is getting to the engine as its turning over. Everyone has their own way to do this however, I've found the easiest is to use two people to make it effective. One person should be sitting in the front driverseat to crank the car over, the other should be under the hood watching for the spark. To do it, remove a spark plug (start at 1 or 4 and work your way down the engine) and plug it back into the plug wire after its out of the motor. While holding the spark plug wire, ground the threads of the spark plug on the valve cover, then cue the person to crank the car over. Verify that there is spark between the electrodes, then repeat for the other (3) cylinders and write down your results.
   You might need to just swap plug wires depending on the model year of your 2g and the CAS you're using, follow the below figure and make sure they are hooked up correctly.
   • None or TWO have spark: Continue to step (2).
   • ALL have spark: Jump to VERIFY FUEL.
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2. Its time to start testing a few sensors, pay close attention to the following links and how-to's. Its very easy to skip a step, which will give you different results, pay attention to detail and take your time.
   • Coil Pack testing
   • Power Transistor (PT) testing
   • 1g CAS testing / 2g CAS & CPS testing
   • Noise Filter (Capacitor)- Reduces "noise" created by the coil/alternator on 12v power line. Ensure its plugged in and grounded/bolted to something so its secured in your engine bay.

VERIFY FUEL AT ALL (4) CYLINDERS

1. First you'll want to make sure you're even getting gas to the fuel rail, once again you'll want someone helping you do this. Remove the fuel line going to the passengerside of the fuel rail, be careful doing it because if there is pressure in the rail it will spray fuel. Once you remove the line going into the rail, put it into a small gas tank (or old cup if you don't mind ruining it) and have the person helping you crank the car over a few times.
   • NO fuel:Check for 12v at your fuel pump connector when the engines cranking, you'll want to check for voltage at the pin going to the BLK/BLU wire.
     • 12v is there: Replace the fuel pump.
     • 12v is NOT there: Pull your MFI/MPI relay and test it OR replace it.
   • Fuel: If there is fuel to the rail then put the line back on (make sure the o-ring isn't cut) and tighten it up so it doesn't leak. Un-bolt the fuel rail from the head, leaving the injectors in the rail and plugged in, after you remove the rail. Set the injectors on the head, facing the front of the car, once again placing them toward a bucket so it can catch the fuel as it sprays out. Have someone crank the car and watch the injectors, ensure ALL of them have a nice spray pattern and pulse as the engines cranking. Wearing eye protection while doing this check isn't a bad idea either, there is a chance you get sprayed with fuel.
     • Some or NONE work: Don't give up yet, there are still a few things to test with a multimeter to make sure its working.
       • Test your injector resistor pack
         
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       • Measure resistance across the injector terminal with the plug disconnected, it should be 2-3 ohms across it.
       • Test the MFI/fuel pump relay
         
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     • ALL of the injectors work: Put everything back together, making sure none of the o-rings are torn, and go to the next step.
     
     CHECK MECHANICAL TIMING
     1. 2g timing belt replacement
        
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     2. If you've got a '97-'99 CAS, check that the camshaft position cylinder is oriented the way it should be on the intake cam. The paint stripe on it should be FACING the CAS when the engine is at TDC, like so...
        
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     3. If you've got a 1g CAS, make sure its at TDC whit the engine and the timing marks on it are lined up as well.
        
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     IF EVERYTHING YOU'VE DONE SO FAR HAS CHECKED GOOD DO A COMPRESSION CHECK.
     1. Disconnect your spark plug cables, spark plugs, & CPS connector to disable all fuel/spark getting to the motor.
     2. Thread in the compression tester in one of the spark plug holes, with someone cranking the car and giving it WOT, measure the compression on each cylinder.
        • Upper Limit: 178psi
        • Lower Limit: 133psi

Hopefully with ALL of the above information it will be enough for you to find the issue. If anyone see's anything else they can add PLEASE add it!

 

[bradselph]

thanks will try this even though i basically did it all except check timing

just boggles me that the timing could possibly jump just from setting over night WTF

 

[92AWDHX40]

Well, owning my dsms i always find small things that cause headaches, i seem to overlook something now and then, check it out and let us know.

 

[redyute1]

just boggles me that the timing could possibly jump just from setting over night WTF

happened to me drove the car home,parked it let it sit for a week then went to crank it up,no start. Just the way it was cranking over,i knew she bent valves so that's not unlikely.

 

[SniperMatt59]

If cylinders 3 and 4 are dry i would check out your CAS and test it. It could also be your ecu try resetting that also and make sure all plugs to the sensors are securely plugged in.

 

[Deadliest Synn]

Is it tripping the CEL? if it is find your codeand we can go from there my 93 is throwing a code 21 CTS gonna put that in tomorrow but mine has exact same symtoms with a CEL on

 

[3parks]

What type of fuel are you running? When I switched to e85 I noticed i had to prime the pump usually about three times before it would fire up. After that it would start up fine

 

[bradselph]

Well everything checked out besides timing and compression.

Resetting timing now then gonna turn over slowly by hand and if everything is good a compression test to see if i bent valves.


EDIT:
Car started up so this thread is resolved.

Car runs fine now, doesn't seem like i bent any valves.

Ordering complete timing belt kit when i get money and parking car until then.

 

[artsvetkov]

Thank you for replies. I dont have enough fuel on start is for sure, Im trying to figure out the reason. Even though all sensors are in spec, computer is still thinking that the engine is warm.

I will hook up LED tester to injectors to see how's my PW, if PW is fine, then I will look into fuel pump(Im sure it would act out not only during cold if it was going out, like boost).

The TB is stock, and I tried heating it up and it seemed to help to start, but I dont see how it relates to fuel system.

Thank you for looking into my problem and helping out.

 

[johneclipse]

long shot, but when was the last time the fuel pump sock and fuel filter were replaced? one or both could be "clogged" and when you crank the car with starter fluid it pushes through the clogged part due to the extra force

 

[artsvetkov]

I did LED injector test, no pulse. I pulled codes from ECU, 13, 14, 21 and 22, IAT, Bar Sensor, TPS, and Coolant sensor. the sensors are fine, but they have one in-common wire G/B, so I just pulled ECU and there is no leking capacitors of anything unusual, I guess I'm off to checking wiring.

 

[DSM1G90]

could be an intermittent break in the coolant sensor connectors themselves.

If any of the two blade connectors are loose going into the housing, that could be the problem. You were getting the correct LED pulses on the test but no engine vibrations giving the sensor fits since the motor was off.

Do you know how to read a temp sensor with a VOM? Resistance changes with the rise in coolant temperature which the ECU corresponds with these readings to adjust the idle accordingly.

THAT is how one should really test these sensors out instead of depending on ECU tone/light blips to give the final answer.


Do a sensor swapout for grins and giggles to see what happens next.



-good luck DSM

 

[artsvetkov]

I did resistance test for both IAT and Coolant temp and it's in spec to factory specifications. I checked(resistance test) the common wiring(G/R and G/B) and its good. I noticed that ECU(MD165531) is out of 6/90-6/92 1G TEL Turbo AWD. I dont think that should matter.

I will try to trick ECU with a resistor instead of of coolant temp sensor trying to tell it that its ball cold outside and see if that works.

 

[DSM1G90]

even though the ECU can look fine and you did your VOM tests across the sensor(s), there could be some drivers on the momboard of the ECU - drivers that are assigned to run each sensor - that has opened up that has to be checked out via bench tests...

One thing that one can do with visually check a ECU is check for burnt ground traces. If you have a burnt one, these can be resoldered back together.

One thing about all of this is to make sure that the plug that attaches to any sensor doesn't touch ground for that'll pop a driver out or blow a ground trace in the ECU in a quick since you actually have voltage that is being supplied by the drivers.

Thus, best to have either the car OFF or disconnect the negative cable, not the positve cable on the battery when doing any sensor testing.

-DSM

 

[artsvetkov]

Whole heat thing is bothering me, I will to heat gun searching tomorrow I will heat up areas of the engine like CAS and TB to see if it will help starting.