Questions for Justin...

[H@xtGSX]

Also good info to know Jim, as I have yet to buy anything from them. There are several people here running Kinugawa turbos that I got to take a look at, along with a few parts they had not installed, so that is what I was basing most of my judgement on. One guy has one on a Superboob with 30k on the turbo and it is still just as tight as the one under my hood, and he is an idiot and beats the hell out of his car. I know it has been abused. I was going to give them a shot just to see for myself. I will keep that in mind though.

Justin, when I was initially looking at the H1C info, I saw someone on one of the Cummins forums had cut the MWE slots open himself with very good results, but also saw posts from another guy who cut them and couldn't build up more than 7 psi after his handywork... How hard do you think it would be to cut them open enough to make them effective? I know my way around a machine shop and have tools I could use to do so, but are the MWE slots in a weird position inside the throat or something? I don't have an HX35 around here I can take a look at to see. Most of them have been sold off for HX40 or 52 upgrades to the trucks they came from... unless they are basically the same. If that is the case, I have one across the street I can go look at right now.

 

[Kevin Jewer]

Hahn didn't do anything except offer them for sale. Various MHI turbos are available in T3 housings as upgrades/replacements for Syclone/Typhoon trucks, and fairly cheap. IIRC they came with a TDO5H 17c or something in that range. FP was selling TDO5H 20Gs with that housing for 545 dollars (syty upgrade). I have one of the T3 housings from one of those. I ran that housing on the 10.31/132 mph EVO3 16g passes on my car. I'm not sure it helps a whole lot, the turbine wheel is the main limiter above 7cm IMO. At some point as you go up in housing AR you're just adding lag down low with no increase in flow up top. A TD06 wheel might make better use of that housing.

Edit> Didn't see the whole last page, whoops. The 8cm T3 housing would be an interesting option if the quality was good. That's probably the biggest that would make any difference without going too far, but I would bet you'd need the 20g compressor to generate enough flow to make good use of it. The FP housing is a cool option, I wish that had been around when I hit the 44-45 lb/min wall on Kait's car. I used to run 48 lbs/min from the same compressor in TD06H configuration on my 2g back in the day, I wonder where the 5H/8cm combo would come out.

 

[H@xtGSX]

Nevermind about cutting the MWE slots on the H1C... I have seen where they are now, and you'd have to be dead on where you cut into the throat or it wouldn't really do anything but disturb induction. Also the guy that messed his up cutting the holes just drilled into the bottom of the slots, basically giving the air an exit path half way down between the inducer and exducer edges. If you take the housing off and really look at it, that should have seemed like a bad idea right away... but I guess not.
If I use it, I think I'll just go find an HX35 cover with them already cut.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

I'm trying to get an hx40 turbine housing but the guy I'm lookin at that has it has no idea the AR. he says there is an 18 stamped on the inside does that mean it's an 18^2cm devided t3? is that gonna be a lag monster? I'm trying to get 600awhp out of this turbo this is a stock holset hot side with a 3" vband outlet

 

[JusMX141]

Don't use a factory HX40 turbine housing unless you're setting it up for twin-scroll. You'll be very disappointed.

((cm2x8)-7) / 100 = a/r

So an 18cm housing would be 1.37 a/r. Huge.


Also, the v-band on the outlet should either be 3.5" or 4". I believe HX35's were the only ones to have a 3" v-band on the outlet.

 

[H@xtGSX]

Here's a comparison... 18.5 cm is BIG. Even if you set it up for twin scroll, you'd better be able to rev that motor to a lot higher than 7k.

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[JusMX141]

^ Right-on. Lots of wasted spool without any potential airflow gain.

The photo that Frank posted is actually of a non-wastegated H1C/HX35 housing....basically the housing volute is so large that it prevents the turbo from overspeeding/overboosting on it's original application which would be a high-displacement, high-compression diesel. Put that housing on a low-displacement, low-compression engine and you'll be disappointed even though our cars rev twice as far as a diesel engine that is three times it's size.



Think of an over-the-road diesel truck....it doesn't have a "powerband" like our cars do where you're either on boost or you're not. The turbo builds a small amount of boost any time the engine is revving and can often generate a decent amount of boost at a very low RPM if the truck is pulling a hill in a high gear with more engine load....this is all controlled by the turbine housing a/r. If you switch to a smaller a/r housing on that application, two things will happen- the turbo will overboost, generating more boost pressure than the engine is designed to handle, and you also run the risk of low-rpm surge.

More of your daily-driven Dodge, Ford, and GM trucks now have wastegated and/or VGT turbos so they spool quickly and respond more like a DSM. This is after the early Dodge Cummins trucks had tiny 48mm H1C compressors in giant 21cm turbine housings to control boost instead of wastegates. These trucks made very low boost, were slow to respond, and just weren't as fun to drive as the trucks built today.

Now if you want your car to fit into the description of that last sentence, an 18cm turbine housing is exactly what you want on your car.

 

[pagosa dsm]

hi Justin
I hope you can help me with this problem with my hx 35. I have a hx 35 8 blade with . 55 bep housing. I am experiencing compressor surge at 3000rpm and at 10 psi. I live at 7500 ft and travel down to 6500ft to Durango. I would drive up to Wolf Creek pass at 11,000 ft.
I have stock cams, 2nd gen maf, afc, 550 inj. In your threads it is common to have this problem with the .55 housing. Can you recomend a solution for my problem.
thanks Rick

 

[WES_393]

^ There are members pushing over 50 lbs/min out of the .55 housing, so there's no way it's restricting 10psi. The problem is likely your stock cams restricting airflow. The 8-blade/.55 housing combo can generate a lot of airflow at low RPM/PSI, so you need to let the engine breathe better. The cam of choice is typically a 272 profile.

Also, your 550's are much to small to safely run that turbo. They will be maxed out at less than 40 lbs/min. Not to say that's your issue now with only 10psi, but it could cause a problem in the future. You would want at least 880's for pump gas.

 

[H@xtGSX]

550's will go higher than 40 lbs/min. I've run mine to 42 lbs/min and was at 89% IDC with AFR at 11.5:1. Depends on the injectors though. Some aren't actually 550's, even though that is how they are labled.

Cams would help though, just to get more air through, instead of backing up in the intake.

 

[WES_393]

550's will go higher than 40 lbs/min. I've run mine to 42 lbs/min and was at 89% IDC with AFR at 11.5:1. Depends on the injectors though. Some aren't actually 550's, even though that is how they are labled.

Yes, there are some exceptions when it comes to injector flow. But for a turbo setup that can reach over 50 lbs/min, I wouldn't recommend a 40-45 lb/min injector. One wastegate malfunction could lead to serious engine damage. Which is why I recommend at least 880's. They would be able to support anything the .55 HX35 can put out with room to spare.

Again, I don't see it as an issue right now. But it's still not a great idea long term. Especially with our lovely 91 octane pump gas.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

I was considering twin scroll, if i have to change manifold and hot side am i really best off with an open t3 and bep .70ar? I was thinking a twin scroll t3 or t4 would keep spool up and wouldn't be too different in cost. i know dave was trapping 150 with the bep, but is there something he would do over if he was gonna buy a manifold/ turbine setup over again?

In other words, what manifold/ turbine setup/AR is gonna net me the most out of the compressor with the quickest spool. A devided or open? And a t3 or t4? Now that i think about it, are there even t4 hx40 housings? oh by the way i wanna be able to get the most out of pump gas 94 oct in ontario where I'm movin, So thats a factor; c16 at the track.. I just don't like this .55 as much as i thought. Need more then 59 lb a min at 27 psi

 

[H@xtGSX]

I agree, 550's are too small for that turbo at higher boost. Really though, if you can tune for bigger than 550's, why not just go straight to 1000's so you can run E85 if you want?

I also totally agree 91 octane sucks. That is what I have to buy too... And what is even more annoying is there is an oil refinery making 93 octane just 20 miles away, but they sell it out east instead of locally... So stupid.

 

[JusMX141]

hi Justin
I hope you can help me with this problem with my hx 35. I have a hx 35 8 blade with . 55 bep housing. I am experiencing compressor surge at 3000rpm and at 10 psi.

I have stock cams

Time for those to go.

Another customer of mine closer to sea level hit a wall with full-throttle surge using stock cams with a T04E60 Garrett a while ago at around 22-23psi....it just wouldn't go above that boost level without surging. Find some 272's or buy some adjustable cam gears and increase your overlap a bit.

I still wouldn't think a HX35 with the MWE groove would surge at such little boost, but that altitude can effect every setup a bit differently as well.

Depends on the injectors though. Some aren't actually 550's, even though that is how they are labled.

Ahem....RC's.

I was considering twin scroll, if i have to change manifold and hot side am i really best off with an open t3 and bep .70ar? I was thinking a twin scroll t3 or t4 would keep spool up and wouldn't be too different in cost.

The problem is the available twin-scroll T3 and T4 housings are so much larger that even with a properly-plumbed twin-scroll setup you're still giving up a good bit of spool. Spend a pile of money to get a twin-scroll T4 manifold and two wastegates just to have the same exact spool characteristic as a guy running a .70 BEP housing. Single-scroll T3 seems to be the way to go with the HX40 whether you use a BEP .70 housing or get a .82 Garrett housing machined.

i know dave was trapping 150 with the bep, but is there something he would do over if he was gonna buy a manifold/ turbine setup over again?

Oh I'm sure improvements could be made if he had $1000 to put into a nice tubular manifold and whatnot, but one of our initial goals was to prove that guys can go fast with a turbo and manifold setup that anyone could buy....not something that was custom-fabbed or machined. Seems to work great.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

which ones he got?

nvm erl, I'm looking into te custom punishment one but i don't know if i'll need a 1g rad

 

[IrishBeatdown]

which ones he got?

nvm erl, I'm looking into te custom punishment one but i don't know if i'll need a 1g rad

If you are talking about the twinscroll t3/t4 punishment, yes, you will need a 1g radiator without some sort of custom routing setup. The rubber hose is way too close to the #4 runner, would easily melt it. Might be able to get by with a good ceramic coat or wrapping, but not ideal. I just bought a new 1g radiator.

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

Or buy a stock spyder rad if your not getting aluminum

 

[WES_393]

Or buy a stock spyder GS rad if your not getting aluminum

Fixed . The Spyder GS upper radiator hose mounts off to the left-hand side, which would help with any clearance issues between exhaust parts and the stock hose location. The stock (or 4g63 specific) fans will even bolt right up.

Here's a Spyder GS radiator setup with 4g63 DOHC head. Using the correct shape hose, or even just a flexible one, would eliminate the pinched hose shown here.

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

Thanks i forgot to add the technical info spyder gs is a direct 2g replace that provides clearance of custom/aftermarket manifolds.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

oops

 

[Archer Fabrications]

The twin scroll i was looking at was actually a 12cm divided, any thoughts on that one? Or still for open t3. I just bought a koyo 2g rad not too long ago so that sucks... I really wanted another dnp but the t3's waste gated are hard to find now at a good price. Ive continplated cutting off the dsm flange and welding up a t3 but i don't think that would be too reliable.

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

You could get away with a 2g rad but you need to use a flex hose thats prefit at one end with a 90* and U it to the housing. That would keep it away from it.

 

[IrishBeatdown]

The twin scroll i was looking at was actually a 12cm divided, any thoughts on that one? Or still for open t3. I just bought a koyo 2g rad not too long ago so that sucks... I really wanted another dnp but the t3's waste gated are hard to find now at a good price. Ive continplated cutting off the dsm flange and welding up a t3 but i don't think that would be too reliable.

my setup is the punish divided w/12cm, there definitely is not much room with the center outlet on the 2g radiator. like mj said, it can be done, but you are going to have to rig something up, and even then it isnt going to be ideal as it it going to be literally right up on the manifold.

 

[JusMX141]

The twin scroll i was looking at was actually a 12cm divided, any thoughts on that one?

The smallest factory HX40 housing made is 16cm- so unless it's a machined HX35 housing, the info you're getting is wrong.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

The smallest factory HX40 housing made is 16cm- so unless it's a machined HX35 housing, the info you're getting is wrong.

Just a random dude on the link forums, so probably wrong, i'll go for the 200 dollar bep and make my own manifold using a vibrant performance merge collector.

my current dnp is pretty close to my silicone rad hose as is an doesn't melt, neither did the stocker. Maybe 1 inch from the hose and 3rd runner?