Questions for Justin...

[Purple_Demon]

Best and easiest way to do it is just weld the flapper shut. Irish is right, finding one that is non-wastegated is going to take a while or probably cost a good bit.

 

[JusMX141]

The 12cm2 nonwastegated are impossible to find, i lurked 2 diesel forums for a few months trying to find one, with no success. I finally ended up ordering one from here:
12cm2 Non-Wastegated Turbine Housing (Short Outlet)
Looks like they are out of stock now, though.

There are a couple of diesel shops that show them, but who knows if they actually have them in their possession or if they just buy them from Cummins as the orders are placed on their site...so if Cummins is out of stock then nobody is going to have one unless it's aftermarket.

http://www.dpppower.com/59-turbos.html (second item from bottom of page)

Otherwise: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/422887-need-help-holset-hx35.html

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

14b no shaft play and does not leak. The compressor wheel has resistance. It will not spin freely. When turning it with my fingers I can feel resistance and the wheel absolutely will not spin freely. What's the problem?

 

[JusMX141]

Oil coking behind the heat shield is forcing the heat shield to contact the back of the turbine wheel. Figure that turbo is at least 18 years old if it has never been previously serviced....the turbine sealing ring has likely lost it's spring tension.

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

I have no clue as to its service life. Bought off a guy that bought it and never used it. The 7cm was put in it at some point.

Pm me about a rebuild price.

 

[dsm's can fly]

Justin, huge fan for what you do for the community.

I need a little help i am not new to turbos at all and this one stumps me a little. I bought it so it is mine i just need a little confirmation of what it is.

I believe it to be a

To4e 57 trim Garrett (pretty certain)
the turbine is a T31 (it has 11 blades)from what i can tell i believe that is a stage 3?

it has a 5 bolt t3 turbine housing. but by checking it against a T4 at my house it seems to be a T28 flange? very confusing it has a T3 adapter bolted to it i believe.

also water cooled cant really tell if it ball bearing (really has me stumped)

so my questions are

1. please confirm if i am right about any of this?
2. what it is if i am wrong
3. will it make 400hp
4. if not were can i get the .63 a/r housing for the turbine (if that is the limitation)

here is the link to the ebay auction: Garrett A R 50 M 4 PT 3 Turbo | eBay

in advance thank you. i have run Garrett GT series for a long time and this is my first budget build so i am a little lost. but only paid $115 so hopefully good deal.

 

[JusMX141]

Justin, huge fan for what you do for the community.

I need a little help i am not new to turbos at all and this one stumps me a little. I bought it so it is mine i just need a little confirmation of what it is.

I believe it to be a

To4e 57 trim Garrett (pretty certain)
the turbine is a T31 (it has 11 blades)from what i can tell i believe that is a stage 3?

it has a 5 bolt t3 turbine housing. but by checking it against a T4 at my house it seems to be a T28 flange? very confusing it has a T3 adapter bolted to it i believe.

Most likely an OEM turbo from something European being that it has water fittings.

also water cooled cant really tell if it ball bearing (really has me stumped)

Doubt it. There are only a handful of applications which came with ball bearing turbos from the factory....journal bearing are far, far less finicky about oiling and are generally more-reliable.

so my questions are

1. please confirm if i am right about any of this?
2. what it is if i am wrong
3. will it make 400hp
4. if not were can i get the .63 a/r housing for the turbine (if that is the limitation)

1) Can't tell for sure without wheel specs.
2) See answer #1.
3) The 57-trim can flow enough air to make 400whp, although some guys will tell you there are much better options for the money.
4) Any T31 turbine housing will work. Garrett, Precision, and many other brands offer these.

The thing is....you paid $136.50 for the turbo; you really should rebuild it as you don't know the source, not to mention it likely has a 270* thrust plate that is going to melt immediately at high boost. If you're not doing the rebuild yourself, tack on another $200 to the purchase price. Now you want to find a turbine housing....those are right around $200 as well. So now we're at $536.50 for basically a brand new 57-trim when you can just buy a complete brand new turbo for $80 more.

T3/T4E, 57Trim Compressor, StageIII Turbine

It's easy to get upside-down in a used turbo if you don't play your cards right.

 

[DSMDEMON93]

Hey Justin, a quick Holset question. A supposed Holset HX35W came up for sale in my area, but upon looking at the photos, there is no model tag plate on the compressor housing, and it's an undivided t3 turbine housing, which I thought was the setup for and HY35? Here is the link
Dodge Turbo used Turbo Dodge TC-HX35W

Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks!

 

[JusMX141]

It's a HY35. Still worth every bit of the asking price...that $200 turbo has gone 10.71, trapped 134mph, and made over 600whp.

 

[destruckeclipse]

Hello Justin, firstly appreciate all the information you provide to us, its great!

Second, earlier on in the thread you mentioned that a 50 trim is better for a street car on pump gas then a 20g. How big a difference is it? I have a buddy who can get me garret 20g for a very good deal and I am wondering if I should not choose it? I only plan to push 350-400whp tops on 91 cali pump gas but at some point probably toss in some meth or something. Would a 20g not be ideal for this type of setup, or rather should I shop around for a 50 trim instead? I do plan to push atleast 20psi on the street and more when I want to abuse it.

I know back in the day the 50 trims were all the rage for street cars but i've been out of the scene a while and it seems there are so many choices out there now.

 

[DSMDEMON93]

It's a HY35. Still worth every bit of the asking price...that $200 turbo has gone 10.71, trapped 134mph, and made over 600whp.

Sounds good! Thank you!

 

[JusMX141]

Second, earlier on in the thread you mentioned that a 50 trim is better for a street car on pump gas then a 20g. How big a difference is it?

In what? Spool? Airflow production? Charge air temps? Not sure what you're getting at- it's a completely different compressor so it's not like you're comparing an 18G to a 20G.

The T04E50 does have a bit wider efficiency islands when comparing maps.

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I have a buddy who can get me garret 20g for a very good deal and I am wondering if I should not choose it?

The 20G is produced by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, not Garrett.

I only plan to push 350-400whp tops on 91 cali pump gas but at some point probably toss in some meth or something. Would a 20g not be ideal for this type of setup, or rather should I shop around for a 50 trim instead? I do plan to push atleast 20psi on the street and more when I want to abuse it.

Your fuel is going to hurt you. Under normal circumstances 350whp is easily achievable with a 20G....but with fuel that is considered mid-grade by the rest of the United States, I'm not sure how far you'll get.


Separate a turbo choice into three categories- max airflow, spool, and overall efficiency. Smaller turbos spool faster and give more/quicker torque than their larger counterparts, but it comes at a price. Here's an example for you.

A good-old cast 20G compressor is rated at 44-45 lb/min max at 25-28psi (actual flow numbers vary by tune and supporting mods). A much-larger GT35R may flow around 45 lb/min at just a few PSI less than a 20G....we'll say 22-23psi just for giggs. Now the 35R reaches full boost a few hundred RPM's later than a 20G, so you'll lose that "hit" that a TD05H 20G can offer (torque), but you can stand to benefit a ton in potential airflow gains (horsepower).

Now turn up the wick on both turbos to 30+psi. The 20G is well-beyond it's map so you're no longer gaining airflow, just overheating the air charge that the engine is seeing which requires a more-efficient intercooler to avoid getting incurable knock- while the same 30psi on the 35R now has you with airflow in the low-to-mid 50's and is still as cool as a cucumber.


A guy who never plans to make more than 350whp with a street car wouldn't want something as large as a 35R because you'll give up 600-700rpms of spool for no reason....you'd be better-off with quicker-spooling 20G. However, somebody who has a thirst for big power wouldn't want to stick with a 20G and deal with hot air being blasted into their engine and a lower max airflow number. It can be confusing, sure...what you're targeting is the best-performing and most-efficient compressor in the airflow category you're looking to make in order to achieve the horsepower numbers you want to make while keeping the car as user-friendly as possible to both the driver and the tuner.

 

[H@xtGSX]

And on that note, my 18g is still very nice... but, people are catching up to, if not surpassing me since seeing what I did with it... So I'm looking to squeeze it a little harder so I don't have to up size to keep up. I am trying to figure out the upgrade that is going to give the biggest boot to the ass at around 4500 to 5000 with this 18g, because as is, that is where it really starts pulling HARD. I have seen several Kinugawa turbos here lately, and I am convinced they are legit. The parts are really nice. So, that being the case, I have been looking at this:

Turbo Turbine wheel Mitsubishi TD06H 20G turbocharger 11 blades Spool fast

I am stuck in a technical question I have never had to get technical enough to answer. Would a bigger turbine wheel, a bigger compressor housing, or a bigger cm turbine housing (8 or 10cm, T3 or MHI) provide a bigger punch vs. the all MHI TD05h-18g?? I have done hours of research and still have no real guidance on this...

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Do they even make T3 for MHI turbos?

Obviously in most cases a larger turbine wheel will yield better flow a higher rpms, but if you're looking at that, you are also looking at either a larger exhaust housing or some custom machining. You are also sacrificing spool time by going larger on the turbine, but since it's still considered small, I wouldn't think you would really notice the additional lag. It might hurt you on pump gas if you are trying to squeeze a large turbine in a small housing. Thats kinda what i am running into with my Holset, the VRSF fmic probably isn't helping either, and I'm on 92.

 

[ExtremeTurboSystems]

Yep, Hahn did it

 

[JusMX141]

I am stuck in a technical question I have never had to get technical enough to answer. Would a bigger turbine wheel, a bigger compressor housing, or a bigger cm turbine housing (8 or 10cm, T3 or MHI) provide a bigger punch vs. the all MHI TD05h-18g?? I have done hours of research and still have no real guidance on this...

You have the ultimate 18G setup the way it is....if you alter anything you're going to give up a decent amount of spool in order to gain minimal turbine flow. I could see if you're up against an airflow wall or fighting high EGT's with a 20G compressor, but an 18G just isn't enough to prompt a turbine wheel or housing upgrade on a 2.0L application.

If you're bored it may be time for something bigger....the upgrade may not cost a bunch in comparison to what you could potentially get out of your 18G being that it uses a stock-style cover. Plenty of guys are looking for stock-appearing upgrade turbos, especially in California.

Do they even make T3 for MHI turbos?

10cm to fit a TD05H.

 

[IrishBeatdown]

Do they even make T3 for MHI turbos?

Obviously in most cases a larger turbine wheel will yield better flow a higher rpms, but if you're looking at that, you are also looking at either a larger exhaust housing or some custom machining. You are also sacrificing spool time by going larger on the turbine, but since it's still considered small, I wouldn't think you would really notice the additional lag. It might hurt you on pump gas if you are trying to squeeze a large turbine in a small housing. Thats kinda what i am running into with my Holset, the VRSF fmic probably isn't helping either, and I'm on 92.

I think the 10cm2 MHI turbo (I think they call it 'cyclone' or 'tsunami' or something) comes with a open t3 flange. It's a pretty useless turbo for our cars though, pretty sure it was for light industrial truck use, and nothing that certainly would make power. Its the only one im aware of that comes stock with a t3 that MHI makes.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Ahh, none the less rare.

 

[H@xtGSX]

Here is a smaller T3... it's one of the one's I was looking at. TD05h 8cm T3 V-band, externally gated. They have the 10cm one also.

Turbine Housing TD05H T517Z T518Z AR61 8cm T3 Flange V-Band


I do get bored easy. Good advice on the California sale... hadn't thought of that. I have a H1C I'm selling right now I could put in, but if I recall right, the H1C compressor only pushes a few pounds more than a 20g... if I'm going to take the time and trouble of doing another turbo install that isn't bolt in, I'd want it to be a larger step than just a few pounds. Honestly though, I have other things I should install before going bigger. I was just curious as to what sort of gain/loss would occur with the larger housings... the one I thought that might not be a sacrifice would be a larger 3" inlet 2" discharge compressor housing, just because the normal cover does look sort of constrictive since it is smaller. On the turbine side, I was trying to figure out the "big wheel in a small housing vs a small wheel in a big housing" question.

 

[IrishBeatdown]

Here is a smaller T3... it's one of the one's I was looking at. TD05h 8cm T3 V-band, externally gated. They have the 10cm one also.

Turbine Housing TD05H T517Z T518Z AR61 8cm T3 Flange V-Band


I do get bored easy. Good advice on the California sale... hadn't thought of that. I have a H1C I'm selling right now I could put in, but if I recall right, the H1C compressor only pushes a few pounds more than a 20g... if I'm going to take the time and trouble of doing another turbo install that isn't bolt in, I'd want it to be a larger step than just a few pounds. Honestly though, I have other things I should install before going bigger. I was just curious as to what sort of gain/loss would occur with the larger housings... the one I thought that might not be a sacrifice would be a larger 3" inlet 2" discharge compressor housing, just because the normal cover does look sort of constrictive since it is smaller. On the turbine side, I was trying to figure out the "big wheel in a small housing vs a small wheel in a big housing" question.

That exhaust housing is not made by MHI, thats a china special from kinugawa. I've bought a few things from Kinugawa, and its pretty hit or miss. Pretty interesting option though, that 8cm housing could work well with a 20g, you would need a custom downpipe/o2 housing though and im not sure its worth the effort overall for an untested housing with no track record.

 

[H@xtGSX]

Everything I have seen in person from them performed well and looked to be just as high quality as the name brands. To my knowledge, they aren't Chinese made, but from Taiwan or Japan. Regardless, for a housing, it is an interesting choice, and there are some MHI made ones on there too I hadn't seen before. The twin scroll was the other one I was looking at... But yea, lots of custom cutting and welding, which I don't mind doing but I would expect a sizable gain in performance to go through the hassle.

 

[JusMX141]

I have a H1C I'm selling right now I could put in, but if I recall right, the H1C compressor only pushes a few pounds more than a 20g... if I'm going to take the time and trouble of doing another turbo install that isn't bolt in, I'd want it to be a larger step than just a few pounds.

Depends what boost level you're running and the level of your supporting mods as well as what H1C you have....there are models with 48 to 56mm compressor inducers, each is significantly different than the next.

I was just curious as to what sort of gain/loss would occur with the larger housings... the one I thought that might not be a sacrifice would be a larger 3" inlet 2" discharge compressor housing, just because the normal cover does look sort of constrictive since it is smaller. On the turbine side, I was trying to figure out the "big wheel in a small housing vs a small wheel in a big housing" question.

There is no hard proof of the compressor housing altering total airflow production much. Look at the 68HTA- it was proven to be a 47 lb/min turbo in both the Subie and DSM platforms despite the DSM cover being significantly smaller.

I agree that compressor cover size and a/r matters on larger compressors, but the 18G isn't much larger than a Big 16G....and the Big 16G was a wheel designed for our smallish TD05H cover.

About all you'd give up by going to a larger turbine housing is spool- as stated before, the TD05H turbine in the factory 7cm housing is plenty for an 18G compressor. If you wanted to try something different, give this a shot:

Forced Performance Turbochargers: FP Turbine Housing for DSM Turbocharger

...but I wouldn't expect a huge gain over a 7cm housing.

 

[H@xtGSX]

Good info. That is enough to keep me from making any unnecessary purhases.

The H1C is the 54mm inducer version off a 93 Dodge with the twin scroll 18.5cm turbine housing. I could run it at whatever it would be happy at, and if something were to be inadequate to do that, I'll either make it or buy it. The question is would it be worth it for the amount of performance gained? I would think an HX40 would be a more worthwhile step up, but again, I'm just speculating.

 

[IrishBeatdown]

Everything I have seen in person from them performed well and looked to be just as high quality as the name brands. To my knowledge, they aren't Chinese made, but from Taiwan or Japan. Regardless, for a housing, it is an interesting choice, and there are some MHI made ones on there too I hadn't seen before. The twin scroll was the other one I was looking at... But yea, lots of custom cutting and welding, which I don't mind doing but I would expect a sizable gain in performance to go through the hassle.

i bought a 7cm2 td05h housing from them where the bolt holes were misplaced on the o2 housing side. Other people have had the same experience. Definitely not as high quality as MHI, their turbos have been problematic for people as well. Spreading misinformation about their quality is not what i want to do. Don't want people to have the same experience as me. People need to know to be careful to buy things from Kinugawa, they might make some good products, but should not be relied upon to be a consistent source of quality. Customer service is terrible as well, had to open a paypal dispute for a simple return.

 

[JusMX141]

The H1C is the 54mm inducer version off a 93 Dodge with the twin scroll 18.5cm turbine housing. I could run it at whatever it would be happy at, and if something were to be inadequate to do that, I'll either make it or buy it. The question is would it be worth it for the amount of performance gained?

The biggest complaint with that turbo when using the .55 housing is surge. It literally spools so quick and makes a heap of airflow at lower boost levels that it surges like hell due to the lack of the MWE groove in the cover. The WH1C was the only H1C to feature the MWE groove in the cover.