Questions for Justin...

[TSITurbo95]

Thank you good sir!

 

[gofer]

In reference to this thread, what are the oiling requirements and/or known issues with PTE 6262 turbos?

Since its a PTE I'm going with anything under 10psi at idle and anything over 20psi at WOT/cold starts. I blame the CC, though.

Here are a few notable "quotes" I've found that have steered me away from running a PTE. I also know a local DSMer that RTV'd his oil drain completely shut and blew his 16g, all to prevent a leak.

Here's what they say on turbobygarrett.com:

Does my turbo require an oil restrictor?
Oil requirements depend on the turbo's bearing system type. Garrett has two types of bearing systems; traditional journal bearing; and ball bearing.

The journal bearing system in a turbo functions very similarly to the rod or crank bearings in an engine. These bearings require enough oil pressure to keep the components separated by a hydrodynamic film. If the oil pressure is too low, the metal components will come in contact causing premature wear and ultimately failure. If the oil pressure is too high, leakage may occur from the turbocharger seals. With that as background, an oil restrictor is generally not needed for a journal-bearing turbocharger except for those applications with oil-pressure-induced seal leakage. Remember to address all other potential causes of leakage first (e.g., inadequate/improper oil drain out of the turbocharger, excessive crankcase pressure, turbocharger past its useful service life, etc.) and use a restrictor as a last resort. Garrett distributors can tell you the recommended range of acceptable oil pressures for your particular turbo. Restrictor size will always depend on how much oil pressure your engine is generating-there is no single restrictor size suited for all engines.

Ball-bearing turbochargers can benefit from the addition of an oil restrictor, as most engines deliver more pressure than a ball bearing turbo requires. The benefit is seen in improved boost response due to less windage of oil in the bearing. In addition, lower oil flow further reduces the risk of oil leakage compared to journal-bearing turbochargers. Oil pressure entering a ball-bearing turbocharger needs to be between 40 psi and 45 psi at the maximum engine operating speed. For many common passenger vehicle engines, this generally translates into a restrictor with a minimum of 0.040" diameter orifice upstream of the oil inlet on the turbocharger center section. Again, it is imperative that the restrictor be sized according to the oil pressure characteristics of the engine to which the turbo is attached. Always verify that the appropriate oil pressure is reaching the turbo.

The use of an oil restrictor can (but not always) help ensure that you have the proper oil flow/pressure entering the turbocharger, as well as extract the maximum performance.

This doesnt really help because it says to just ask the distributor. I found in another section it says "Garrett ball bearing turbochargers require less oil than journal bearing turbos. Therefore an oil inlet restrictor is recommended if you have oil pressure over about 60 psig."

THIS.

Too many turbos are sold and installed on these cars by owners who do not understand the oiling requirements for the turbo whatsoever. I can't say this is the single reason that PTE turbos fail prematurely or without warning, but I do know this.....Holset publishes oiling info for every turbo they build in the service manual for the turbo itself. This information is available for anyone to read, and if it's followed you are guaranteed a very long life out of your turbo.

Does anyone actually know the oiling requirement for a Garrett T3 center housing? Seems that every time someone asks PTE what the oiling requirement is for one of their journal bearing turbos they get a different answer, and any time a turbo is sent to them for warranty service, the reason it failed is "an oiling issue". You can't expect to operate a functional business under those circumstances.

Guys, there really is no point to recording the information from Ball Bearing units.

A ball bearing turbo is either going to make boost when it's new or it's not. As long as it's fed a clean low-pressure and low-volume oil source, it's lifespan is literally indefinite. There is no thrust system in a ball bearing turbo, nor do you have to worry about sudden drops in oil pressure causing metal-on-metal contact of the bearings because the bearings are always metal-on-metal.

The objective here is trying to determine exactly why the journal bearing PTE units are failing with such low mileage when sourced exactly how PTE recommends.

 

[Calan]

Thanks guys (except Cory and his blaming my awesome catch can. )

 

[gofer]

Thanks guys (except Cory and his blaming my awesome catch can. )

CorEy.

I'm kidding, you and I both know those CS1 CC's can only make the car more better than it already was.

 

[Calan]

CorEy.

I'm kidding, you and I both know those CS1 CC's can only make the car more better than it already was.

Says the guy who STILL lists an "RRE oil catch can" in his profile, even though he's owned one (or two?) of mine for like 2 years.

 

[gofer]

Says the guy who STILL lists an "RRE oil catch can" in his profile, even though he's owned one (or two?) of mine for like 2 years.

I bought two, one for me and one to hack up and reverse engineer to sell for $30 cheaper and call it the CJ CC. That seems to be the thing to do this day and age, let someone engineer a good piece then reverse engineer it and make money using cheap materials. I'm kidding, I bought the second for a friend who is actually running it.

Mine isn't installed yet because I can't come to drilling/welding the FP intake that Jus sent me etched black. Its so pretty...

 

[JusMX141]

Mine isn't installed yet because I can't come to drilling/welding the FP intake that Jus sent me etched black. Its so pretty...

Just cut a hole in your air filter, stuff the hose in there, and RTV around it. Same difference.




What's sad is there are probably a hundred similar setups to what I mentioned above floating around cyberspace......

 

[Bud92gsx]

I am actually measuring the ID of the pipe that leads to comp wheel one is 1.940 the other is 1.849.

Hope this helps.

Ohh you measured the i.d. of the hose spot. No no no.To make sure what compressor it is you need to take the cover off, and measure the inducer and exducer of the compressor wheel.

 

[bradikus7]

Even though you said I could get away with fixing my kinked -10an return line, my brother picked up an oil drain flange from his job with a good 2 inches or so of tube still connected to it. This weekend I'm going to make a better drain using the factory 2G bottom half of a turbo drain line and a hose in between.

My question is, do you think I can just go grab a rubber hose from the auto parts store and run that with a couple clamps? Maybe the high pressure stuff? Or I was thinking a silicone hose would be better but unsure where to get one. I plan on checking oil pressure before the swap and after. I did check the turbo today and as far as I can see the compressor side looks great, no oil blown passed seals and shaft play is very minimal like the day I bought it! So I believe it's still in great shape even though I never checked oil pressure from the start

Also I don't drive my baby in the winter but before I put her away I put a good 300 miles on that turbo and one track pass the way it is just an FYI, so what you think sir?

 

[JusMX141]

You really need to use silicone hose on an oil drain. Standard rubber hose will NOT hold up to hot oil. It's just not worth risking the hose rotting out and developing an unknown leak while you're driving, pumping the entire oil pan dry.

 

[bradikus7]

You really need to use silicone hose on an oil drain. Standard rubber hose will NOT hold up to hot oil. It's just not worth risking the hose rotting out and developing an unknown leak while you're driving, pumping the entire oil pan dry.

I love you!(in a straight way) Seriously the best thread ever, thanks. I guess I'm on the hunt now for a silicone hose with roughly .85" I.D. Here is a pic of what my brother brought me.

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I actually went out and measured and it's only like 1.3" of tube but it should still work.

 

[JusMX141]

7/8" hose would be what you're looking for (.875")- although since you're connecting to a stock 2G drain, just get a piece of 3/4" hose and stretch it over what you have there. The 7/8" hose may not clamp down on a 2G drain, and 2G drains are very thin aluminum so they're quite easy to bend or distort when clamping.

 

[bastarddsm]

You really need to use silicone hose on an oil drain. Standard rubber hose will NOT hold up to hot oil. It's just not worth risking the hose rotting out and developing an unknown leak while you're driving, pumping the entire oil pan dry.

errr... Somwhere I've seen that silcone hose is not the hose to use. aparantly it's porous enoug for oil to penetrate it.

Keep in mind almost all tractors ever have a turbodiesel engine, which will have a short chunk of hose to connect the drain tube to the block. I go to a John Deere dealer, and order a foot of that exact hose. And use it, without fail.

 

[arrowhead]

Ohh you measured the i.d. of the hose spot. No no no.To make sure what compressor it is you need to take the cover off, and measure the inducer and exducer of the compressor wheel.

OK, I will do that in a few days after I get back, but are you aware of why they may be different.

On the new one, the comp blades seem to have more pitch at the ends.

 

[JusMX141]

errr... Somwhere I've seen that silcone hose is not the hose to use. aparantly it's porous enoug for oil to penetrate it.

Weird- the Garrett on my father's old Freightliner had nothing more than a 2ft piece of 3/4" silicone heater hose on it between the flange on the turbo and the flange on the pan...lasted over 1 million miles.

 

[Kevin Jewer]

Oil leeches through the silicone couplers on the Ford 6 liters. Good silicone hose will have an oil proof inner layer. For oil drains, any standard push lock type hose should be rated for hot oil. Definitely stay away from the rubber heater hose type stuff at your local auto parts store. Trans cooler hose is probably fine though, and they carry that as well.

 

[Calan]

For oil drains, any standard push lock type hose should be rated for hot oil.

+1 on the push lock hose.

I used a piece of 3/4" ID blue push lock hose on a custom drain flange/tube that I fabbed up, running into a 3/4" x 12AN hose barb. I had to slide a compression spring over it so it would hold it's shape due to a fairly tight bend radius, but it worked out well.

 

[bradikus7]

+1 on the push lock hose.

I used a piece of 3/4" ID blue push lock hose on a custom drain flange/tube that I fabbed up, running into a 3/4" x 12AN hose barb. I had to slide a compression spring over it so it would hold it's shape due to a fairly tight bend radius, but it worked out well.

I think I'll go this route. Extremepsi doesn't seem to have any 3/4" silicone hose anyhow. I'm just going to grab a foot of -12an pushlok which says .75"I.D. or 3/4", should slip over fine and work the clamps right?

Plus I would have never even guessed that silicone line would seep through. Thanks for the heads up bastarddsm.

 

[Calan]

Plus I would have never even guessed that silicone line would seep through. Thanks for the heads up bastarddsm.

As Kevin mentioned, the good stuff has a liner to combat that issue, and as Justin said it works fine in some cases. It just depends on the hose. Both sides are correct.

 

[bradikus7]

As Kevin mentioned, the good stuff has a liner to combat that issue, and as Justin said it works fine in some cases. It just depends on the hose. Both sides are correct.

Which this makes perfect sense to me, but I don't know where to get the "good" stuff and I am placing a decent size order with extremepsi anyway. I figure $6 for the pushlock line that I know is good for oil is worth the hassle of trying to find something a couple dollars cheaper. If this will work for me, I'm golden. Thanks for all the tips from everyone.

 

[silicosys4]

hey Justin do you know were you can buy 16g hot-sides new?? knock off ones are fine i just cant find anyone selling just the hot-sides thanks

Turbine housing TD05-16G - China thrust collar from Wuxi Shengyi Light Industrial Apparatus Factory

Hahn Racecraft - Turbo Upgrades and Parts

 

[turboglenn]

Justin, would you happen to know the cummins part number for an early h1c rebuild kit (oil cooled only if there was a difference at all inthat option) or where i can get one in general (didn't think they used the same exact parts as the hx series from your talk on the thrust plate designs)

I find them for the hx's easy, but none of the places i buy list stuff for the H1 series, i know their old but hell we should be able to get the kits and i'm placing my bet on you kowing where, how and how much

thanks in advance

 

[JusMX141]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/152847393-post49.html ; Cummins dealer.

 

[gofer]

Justin, what do you think about running a Proclassic hose for an oil drain?

STM PROCLASSIC OIL RETURN LINE KIT

I think this is a great idea for those folks running -10AN drain lines because its a PITA to work with, might be a bit expensive as a kit but if you piece it together yourself it wouldn't be too bad.

 

[JusMX141]

The hose might be better if the wrapping on the exterior keeps it from kinking- but JESUS look how small the holes are in the flanges compared to the gaskets!

Way to make a nice drain kit completely worthless.