Pre-intercooler cooling pipe

[2gmummy]

Has anyone heard of this is have any actual experience with one? The idea seems solid and I might use it if it actually works. The reasoning/ logic behind it sounds like it would work I've just never seen or heard anything about it.

Pre-Intercooler Cooling Pipe

 

[AwD4g63TsI]

Glad you posted this. I saw this pipe a few weeks ago and was going to ask the same thing but it slipped my mind. For that extra little bit it seems like a sound idea as you said-maybe even run some ducting so cool air constantly flows over the fins.

 

[motozachl]

Interesting Would like to see some testing data of temperatures with and without the pre pipe

 

[turbo23]

yeah, I'd like to do some testing on it also. I would guess youd have to have it located where ambient air can constantly pass over it to notice a drop in temp..

 

[talonDSMerr]

Won't work. There are no fins on the inside of the pipe, so while the fins around the outside of the pipe will cool the pipe, there is a lack of means for the pipe to cool the air travelling inside it. Just not enough surface area on the inside of the pipe, so the pipe may be cooler, but your intake temps will remain pretty much the same. If you put fins on the inside, it becomes a major restriction. Sadly, this is just a marketing gimmick...

Best thing is to let the intercooler do it's job!

 

[LiquidX]

You do realize that the pipe is designed the same way an intercooler/radiator is right? Temperature from the air absorbs into the pipe and the fins dissipate it. Same way the intercooler works. It's only to help lower it a little, it doesn't say to not run an intercooler at all.

Hell, this pipe would be perfect for those that don't run intercoolers at all and just make yiur whole intake track post turbo out of this. Slightly cools the charge and no pressure drop associated with ICs.

I honestly don't think it would work too well unless as stated already there is constant airflow passing over it to cool it off. Every little bit helps though

 

[GRAVEDIGGER]

I have to agree with the others. I need some proof of intake temperature drops, but I don't think it would do much, especially in a hot engine bay. If you didn't run an intercooler it might help a bit, but unless you have some cool air going across the outside of the pipe I don't think it would do much good.

 

[LandoAWD]

If you run it as the hot pipe, it's just going to absorb additional heat from the manifold, DP, or whatever else you have heating up the area. If you run it as the cold pipe, as noted in the post above, it'll likely absorb ambient heat BETTER than a standard pipe and heat up the intercooled air.

Anyone need a Turbonator gas saver?

 

[talonDSMerr]

You do realize that the pipe is designed the same way an intercooler/radiator is right? Temperature from the air absorbs into the pipe and the fins dissipate it. Same way the intercooler works.

Not exactly... This is designed like air cooled cold plates in electronics equipment, where the components that need to be cooled are mounted directly onto the cold plate (or finned piece). That way, you have a path for the heat to travel from the hot component to the cold plate through conduction.

When you pass air over something for cooling, you need a lot of airflow or a lot of surface area. The fins on this piece would do a good job to get the pipe to near outside air temperature. But how will the pipe cool the air travelling inside? Look at how radiators or intercoolers are designed again, and you will notice the air/coolant that you want cooled has to pass lots of small fins, whose purpose is to increase surface area. This pipe has nothing of that sort. Air is a very good insulator, and there is a boundary layer where air velocity = 0 at the ID of the pipe. So you will have a somewhat cool pipe, a thin layer of somewhat cool air that is not getting to your turbo, and airflow that is not getting much cooling.

 

[TSiAWD666]

Call me when they make one with magnets. Magnets is where it's at.

 

[99gst_racer]

^^^

Snake oil.

I can't see this thing having any measurable affect on a 300*F air charge flying through it. I would bet that it eventually heat soaks and becomes just another piece of IC piping at that point. It might disapate it own heat better than a basic piece of tubing, but I still don't think it would do anything beneficial for the air traveling through it. Just my .02.

 

[Calan]

It might disapate it own heat better than a basic piece of tubing...

I think that is the key.

The pipe itself should react to engine bay temperatures faster than standard IC piping due to the increased exterior surface area, which means you MAY see a very small transfer effect one way or the other during conditions where the air velocity traveling through it is very low (idling or light cruising)...if the pipe is long enough.

You can see this effect if you watch your IAT's why idling at a long stop light. The IAT's go up considerably as engine bay heat is absorbed by the IC piping, and will then begin dropping when you leave the light...but the temperature drop is mostly due to the internal air temperature being reduced by the IC; not the slightly reduced temperature in the engine bay.

talonDSMerr and the others have it right...during boost/high flow/heat-soaked conditions when you really need additional cooling, I can't see it doing much of anything at all due to fluid dynamics 101.

 

[2gmummy]

Ok that kinda makes sense but if is on the lower ic somewhat away from the down couldn't it get good air from under the car. Also what if you had more than one in series? Or hypotheticly your whole ic piping with this design?

 

[Calan]

Ok that kinda makes sense but if is on the lower ic somewhat away from the down couldn't it get good air from under the car.

Ever grabbed anything in that area after running your car? The space that most LICP's run through is some of the hottest in the engine bay.

Also what if you had more than one in series? Or hypotheticly your whole ic piping with this design?

You'd be better off using the extra space that the fins would take up for larger OD IC pipe.

 

[mattasi]

So who is going to buy and test it? haha

 

[2gmummy]

Ever grabbed anything in that area after running your car? The space that most LICP's run through is some of the hottest in the engine bay.


You'd be better off using the extra space that the fins would take up for larger OD IC pipe.

Ok say the dp is wrapped or coated or some sort or a thermal barrier and maybe the pipe also plus put the pre-ic cool as close to the core away from heat as possible, that wouldn't be that unrealistic of a set up


No offense but that didn't answer the question at all, I mean if it cost the same as regular pipe figured a way to make the bends work and space wasnt an issue. It should get the temps down and be able to keep the air cool all the way through right?

 

[Calan]

No offense but that didn't answer the question at all.

Sure it did!

The LICP area is HOT, no matter what you wrap and shield. If anything the exterior fins will actually absorb heat faster than a plain pipe.

Larger OD pipe will flow more air ( i.e. make more power) than you'll ever see from what little cooling that finned pipe can do, if anything.

It should get the temps down and be able to keep the air cool all the way through right?

At least 6 of us here have said it's doubtful.

Go old school and try it for us.

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

Stereo amps, after market amp's diff casings, oil pans,water meth pumps all have these types of fin's on them and although the stereo and pump isn't getting air passing around it if it didn't have these it would melt, they don't need a lot of air to cool that's why these electrical items all come with them and not a normal flat surface now a days! I see the point in them bit if you have a fmic then what good will an extra bit of pipe do to the air when you have a fmic being rammed with lots of cool air anyway!!! This will be best if your not moving fast I think. I've not really seen many of these on cars except race cars and drift cars for there oil swish tanks.


But what do I know I'm no expert

also I swear I've seen an add on outer sleeve that you can stick on your existing pipe so it would be less costly I'm going to have a search later and see if I can remember the company that does the stick on fins.

 

[talonDSMerr]

Did nobody read my post?

The reason these fins work on stereo amps, diff casings, etc., is because the things that are being cooled are either liquids or solids in direct contact with the part that is finned. This is called conduction heat transfer. The heat from the liquid/solid can easily transfer to the fins because, again, they are in direct contact. Once the heat is at the fins, the increase of surface area of the fins greatly increases the convection coefficient, so heat can transfer from the fins to the cooler air flowing around the fins. More surface area = higher convection coefficient = more heat transfer from solid to air.

In this case, what you are trying to cool is air travelling inside the pipe. Now, with no fins or anything in the path of the airflow to increase the surface area, your convection coefficient is very small, so it will be VERY difficult for heat to travel from the air to the pipe or vice versa.

Does that make sense?

This is basically an intercooler, but a very, very inefficient one.

 

[Calan]

Did nobody read my post?

Gets annoying doesn't it?

This will be best if your not moving fast I think.

It should actually make things worse, since at slow speeds engine bay temps are higher, and those external fins will soak up that heat nicely and transfer it to the slower moving (and non-intercooled) air inside the pipe.

Read what talonDSMerr has posted twice now.

The reason these fins work on stereo amps, diff casings, etc., is because the things that are being cooled are either liquids or solids in direct contact with the part that is finned. This is called conduction heat transfer. The heat from the liquid/solid can easily transfer to the fins because, again, they are in direct contact. Once the heat is at the fins, the increase of surface area of the fins greatly increases the convection coefficient, so heat can transfer from the fins to the cooler air flowing around the fins. More surface area = higher convection coefficient = more heat transfer from solid to air.

In this case, what you are trying to cool is air travelling inside the pipe. Now, with no fins or anything in the path of the airflow to increase the surface area, your convection coefficient is very small, so it will be VERY difficult for heat to travel from the air to the pipe or vice versa.

 

[4g63tc]

This would be more effective, if it were spliced into the Radiator cooling system

 

[Calan]

This would be more effective, if it were spliced into the Radiator cooling system

Or to put it another way... if the air/fluid traveling through the pipe is always hotter than the ambient temperature on the external fins of the pipe. Which on our typical intercooled engines, it is not. Not only that, the temperature differential would have to be high enough (and the fluid velocity low enough) to overcome the boundary layer effect and lower the convection coefficient that talonDSMerr explained.

On most setups, the intercooled (and not heat-soaked) IAT will be less than the ambient engine bay temperature around the UICP pipes (we hope), except when idling and at slow speeds. The air exiting the turbo will also most likely be cooler than the area of the LICP and downpipe, except when being compressed (although I've never actually measured it). So if anything, this pipe should only make low speed intake temperatures worse, while doing nothing to help cool the IAT when under boost... assuming you have a fairly decent intercooler.

IF (and only if) you had a sufficient length of it before the intercooler, and IF you had a very high temperature drop across the IC, and IF you could generate enough cool airflow over the fins... you may see a very slight improvement under certain conditions. But I doubt it would be noticeable for most people.

 

[talonDSMerr]

Gets annoying doesn't it?

I spent a lot of time typing those posts, thanks for quoting me so I wouldn't have to post the same thing again.

 

[Boostinsideways]

Call me when they make one with magnets. Magnets is where it's at.

Here is my new magnetized pre intercooler pipe. This patented system uses a magnetic heat exchanger to cool off the air that passes through pipe while At the same time giving the air volume passing through a postive charge which promotes more energetic combustion.

 

[4g63tc]

Or to put it another way... if the air/fluid traveling through the pipe is always hotter than the ambient temperature on the external fins of the pipe. Which on our typical intercooled engines, it is not. Not only that, the temperature differential would have to be high enough (and the fluid velocity low enough) to overcome the boundary layer effect and lower the convection coefficient that talonDSMerr explained.

On most setups, the intercooled (and not heat-soaked) IAT will be less than the ambient engine bay temperature around the UICP pipes (we hope), except when idling and at slow speeds. The air exiting the turbo will also most likely be cooler than the area of the LICP and downpipe, except when being compressed (although I've never actually measured it). So if anything, this pipe should only make low speed intake temperatures worse, while doing nothing to help cool the IAT when under boost... assuming you have a fairly decent intercooler.

IF (and only if) you had a sufficient length of it before the intercooler, and IF you had a very high temperature drop across the IC, and IF you could generate enough cool airflow over the fins... you may see a very slight improvement under certain conditions. But I doubt it would be noticeable for most people.

Now i'm totally confused.