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pksystems 97 Talon TSi AWD

Rating:
5/5,
Year:
1997
Model/Trim:
Eagle Talon TSi AWD
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  1. iugrad92turbo

    iugrad92turbo Supporting Member

    10,546
    437
    Joined May 22, 2007
    Kalamazoo, Michigan
    Do you have you have any codes or fouled plugs.
     

    7K  5

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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  2. pksystems

    pksystems Proven Member

    209
    127
    Joined Nov 9, 2003
    Calgary, AB, Canada
    Turned on "activate fuel pump" in ecmlink before trying to fire the car, and it chugged a bit, but still didn't start, and immediately was back into the same crank, but won't fire.

    No codes, plugs had some fuel and a tiny bit of black, but they are still good. They were brand new before we had the car idling fine.

    Grabbed the capacitor (noise filter) off my ESi, plugged it in/grounded it. Sounds like it's only purpose is for the radio. I didn't have one before, but it's mentioned in the no start thread. No change.

    Pulled the "anti-theft" 10amp fuse. No change.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2017

    6K  25

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  3. tay97gst

    tay97gst Proven Member

    392
    18
    Joined Dec 20, 2011
    Plaistow, New Hampshire
    It might be a good idea to try a different compression tester. I've had a harbor freight compression tester read significantly lower than an autozone one, even though it read even across all cylinders.

    As far as the no-start, it would help if you could at least post a log so we can see your settings.
     

    4K  0

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.6 @ 109 · 2G DSM
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  4. pksystems

    pksystems Proven Member

    209
    127
    Joined Nov 9, 2003
    Calgary, AB, Canada
    Took a break from the car to do some other projects this summer. Finally back trying to get this thing moving.

    There is a log on page 9.

    Picked up a usb boroscope off amazon, and took a look inside the cylinders. The 90 degree mirror viewer doesn't work good, so I couldn't see the sidewalls. The pistons look like 2.3L stroker wiseco's from the style/placement of the serials. All the piston tops look the same. Carbon buildup on them all.



    Pulled fuel injectors, and ran carb cleaner through them while I pulsed them with a 12V battery. The spray pattern/atomization looks perfect on all 4.

    Blew compressed air through the fuel return to make sure it's not blocked.

    I'm going to pull the (new) catalytic converter to verify it's not somehow plugged. I'll throw on the straight pipe.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2017

    6K  25

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  5. kmetiuk

    kmetiuk Proven Member

    361
    121
    Joined Mar 10, 2010
    Edmonton, AB, Canada
    Good idea on the cat....i had an old civic plug once that I replace the motor in 2 b/c I ran out of things to check. It would run for a 1-2 before the back pressure became to much tho.

    CR is low but you should see the numbers I got on the motor I just pulled HAHAH so brutal. My car still ran and started and was pulling hard on 22psi still so I am pretty confident that the compression is not your issue.
    IMG_5414.JPG


    I just looked at the log and was gonna say air fuel spark. I see air via the MAF and I see fuel via injduty.....you say you have good inj pulse but is the fuel line under pressure when you key on via the fuel pressure gauge? Assuming you do then you it MUST be spark. Can you physically see spark if you pull and plug and ground it against the valve cover while cranking?


    Just tryna throw some more ideas out there.....you've been stuck for a while. :(
     

    Road Race Build 2K  1

    1997 Eagle Talon N/T
    manual · 2G DSM
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  6. pksystems

    pksystems Proven Member

    209
    127
    Joined Nov 9, 2003
    Calgary, AB, Canada
    Took most of August off to do stuff, since I'm getting sick of this car.

    Put all the E10 fuel I had into the car. The fuel gauge reads more then 1/2 a tank. Hurray, that's working.

    Installed BPR6ES spark plugs (OEM, 1 hotter then what I had the car running on) Still no start.
    Pulled catalytic converter, and installed the straight pipe. No blockage, still no start.
    Pulled turbo timer + it's harness. Still no start.
    Pulled Cam Angle Sensor 6-bolt adapter harness, and tested for continuity. Passed.

    The gauge on the AFPR is hovering at ~50psi when cranking, and if I check off activate fuel pump, the pump whirls away, so the pump is fine.
    I can physically see spark, but I don't think I'm getting enough.

    I did extend the wires on the harness to move the power transistor, and used larger wire, twisted, soldered and shrinked. I did test the transistor itself, and it passed. I'm going to check the wiring.

    I'm pretty sure it's one of the following:
    Harness in the car.
    Alternator (tested good at Partsource before installing)
    Screw type quick disconnect battery ground terminal. I'm going to find a real terminal and hook it up.
     

    6K  25

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  7. kmetiuk

    kmetiuk Proven Member

    361
    121
    Joined Mar 10, 2010
    Edmonton, AB, Canada

    This maybe a dumb question....but you seem stuck so I'll ask:

    Is the "Use 96 style CAS" checked/uncheck in DSMLink and you have the plug wires hooked up correctly according to that setting?

    I have had that before where it some how got unchecked or I put the plug wires back on wrong.
     

    Road Race Build 2K  1

    1997 Eagle Talon N/T
    manual · 2G DSM
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    Spideydsm99 likes this.
  8. Spideydsm99

    Spideydsm99 Proven Member

    227
    40
    Joined May 30, 2017
    Cherryville, North Carolina
    Since his have a 1g can. Take it off and spin it by hand with the car in the on position. See if the injectors are working. Just trying to throw ideas towards you. I know I hate seeing projects sit, not knowing what's wrong.
     

    Street Build 492  3

    1997
    manual · 2G DSM
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  9. Spideydsm99

    Spideydsm99 Proven Member

    227
    40
    Joined May 30, 2017
    Cherryville, North Carolina

    Street Build 492  3

    1997
    manual · 2G DSM
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  10. kmetiuk

    kmetiuk Proven Member

    361
    121
    Joined Mar 10, 2010
    Edmonton, AB, Canada

    Road Race Build 2K  1

    1997 Eagle Talon N/T
    manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  11. pksystems

    pksystems Proven Member

    209
    127
    Joined Nov 9, 2003
    Calgary, AB, Canada
    I have checked the 1g cas. It did click the injectors when manually rotated.

    I did test the coolant sensor, and ecmlink verified its working. -74 when unplugged, approximately 66 when hooked up.

    Spark plug wires were swapped correctly for 6bolt in a 2g, and use non 95-96 style cam angle sensor was checked.

    I'm going to check a couple more things. Alternator, wiring harness, possibly non ethanol gas.
     

    6K  25

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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    Spideydsm99 and kmetiuk like this.
  12. Murdertalon

    Murdertalon Proven Member

    250
    50
    Joined Jul 7, 2016
    East side, Washington
    just for kicks try unplugging the fuel pump and see if it starts once it leans out.. then let me know how that went.
     

    325  1

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    Street Build 3K  24

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  13. Spideydsm99

    Spideydsm99 Proven Member

    227
    40
    Joined May 30, 2017
    Cherryville, North Carolina
    Yes, or make it run terrible. Ive ran into that problem on two of these cars so far. Put the new one in and bam runs likes it did before.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2017

    Street Build 492  3

    1997
    manual · 2G DSM
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    Murdertalon likes this.
  14. Murdertalon

    Murdertalon Proven Member

    250
    50
    Joined Jul 7, 2016
    East side, Washington
    Mine would flood like every 5th start. Sometimes it would flood just starting if it didn't catch right away. I had to unplug the fuel pump and let it lean out before it would start, the first time I didnt realize I could just pull the pump, I actually took the plugs out and dried the engine out. Then I thought maybe it would dry it out just cranking without fuel. It also ran too hot.. so yeah will run terrible with any issue going on with the temp sensor.
     

    325  1

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    Street Build 3K  24

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  15. pksystems

    pksystems Proven Member

    209
    127
    Joined Nov 9, 2003
    Calgary, AB, Canada
    I *may* have tracked down the issue. FUBAR may be the word of the day.

    My timing belt has not jumped any teeth. It was spot on when I installed it, and I rotated it like 30 times to make sure.

    My fluidampr damper marks do not appear to be lining up with anything. One is at 12, one at 6 (these things have 2), when I'm at what should be TDC. I've seen in some posts that they should line up with the "T" at TDC on the lower timing cover.

    I put a pencil in cylinder 1 and turned the crank on the engine, and I'm definitely not at TDC.

    I've double checked, and I did order a 6-bolt crankshaft trigger plate. I'm wondering if it was actually a mislabeled 1G 7-bolt trigger I received.

    I'll see tomorrow when I pull the fluidampr and lower timing cover.

    Car seemed to run fine, even if timing was off by a mile.

    Anyway, if I managed to bend some valves, I'm putting a 2G head on this with the Evo3 intake.
     

    6K  25

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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    Spideydsm99 and Murdertalon like this.
  16. pksystems

    pksystems Proven Member

    209
    127
    Joined Nov 9, 2003
    Calgary, AB, Canada
    Not sure what happened, but I did get the correct crankshaft trigger plate. The timing belt is still telling me everything is timed correctly with the marks on the cam gears. The belt did move at the crank tho. It's off by like ~30 degrees. I am 100% sure I had all the marks aligned when I put the belt on. I even found a picture showing everything aligned. I'll take a look at the hydraulic tensioner later.

    Anyway. I'm assuming valves are bent. I will dissassemble, clean and rebuild my 2G head that came with the car. This engine had a spun bearing, so I need to clean anything that touched oil.

    I don't have much info about this cylinder head, except that its "built" :)

    head_01.jpg

    head_02.jpg

    I see Comp 272 camshafts, and unknown non-oem valves. No idea if the springs are oem. Let me know if you recognize any other upgrades. :)

    This engine had a MLS headgasket, so it should have been recently machined flat. I will be replacing the rockers, and lifters. I'm missing the HLA pressure regulator (probably junk anyway), so I'll grab a Kiggly. Since I don't plan on insane boost, I'll just use a composite HG.
     

    6K  25

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  17. Murdertalon

    Murdertalon Proven Member

    250
    50
    Joined Jul 7, 2016
    East side, Washington
    That really is a rough blow from your car man. If it had a spun bearing anyway maybe its a good idea to pull apart and fix it anyhow, but that means bottom end work. Do you have upgraded pistons or still stock ones? If you do get aftermarket ones that could be cool. I have done some research and I would go with ROSS pistons if you do decide to change those.
     

    325  1

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    Street Build 3K  24

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  18. pksystems

    pksystems Proven Member

    209
    127
    Joined Nov 9, 2003
    Calgary, AB, Canada
    Snow is back, so I might aswell work on the cylinder head. This head is off a JDM RVR.

    4g63_art.jpg

    Removed the Comp 272 camshafts, lifters and rockers. Camshafts look awesome. Thank-you previous, previous owner for dropping the coin. :) Lifters and rockers will be replaced.

    Hydro-tested the valves for leaks following Jafro's video.



    I left the water sitting for 1.5 hours, and got very minor leaking on exhaust ports 3,4,6. Much less leakage then Jafro, but this head was "built" shortly before the PPO spun the bearing.

    hydro_testing.jpg

    Picked up a Team Xi 4G63 valve spring compressor. Seems to work fine.

    compressor.jpg

    Removed all the valves, making sure to keep track of where they came from. I used a shoe box.

    valves.jpg

    The valves look to be Japanese made Dokuro 1-piece forged stainless steel with a black nitride coating. I will lap the 3 leaking valves.

    I will also be redrilling this head to accept 6-bolt ARP headstuds, since this will be mounted on my 6-bolt block. Then a good cleaning, and reassembly.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2017

    6K  25

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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    kmetiuk and Spideydsm99 like this.
  19. keltalon

    keltalon Supporting VIP

    3,311
    1,010
    Joined Jun 29, 2003
    Luthersville Ga, Atlanta, Georgia
    Nice!
     

    Street Build 4K  0

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM

    8K  14  25

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    11.1 @ 137.3 · 2G DSM
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  20. pksystems

    pksystems Proven Member

    209
    127
    Joined Nov 9, 2003
    Calgary, AB, Canada
    Cleaned up the rough casting flash on the inside of the head. Anything loose got filed down.

    Drilled the headstud holes out to 1/2" for 6-bolt headstuds. Opened up the oil port a bit. Lapped the valves.

    Cleaned the bare head. Repeat like 10x with various degreasers, carb cleaners, brushes, high pressure air...etc..... etc...

    Bled lifters, and reassembled cylinder head with new rockers/lifters, seals, and Kiggly Racing HLA.

    head.jpg

    Tossed the Evo III intake manifold on to take a look. I forgot how pretty this was. It might just be and optical illusion, but the evo intake looks really low compared to the 1G IM currently on the car. I still need a coil pack bracket for this manifold. My 3d printer has just arrived, and I'm seriously considering drawing up and printing the bracket out of nylon or polycarbonate. I'm pretty sure both of these can handle the heat.

    evo_im.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017

    6K  25

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  21. pksystems

    pksystems Proven Member

    209
    127
    Joined Nov 9, 2003
    Calgary, AB, Canada
    03.jpg
    Extra Crispy 1G head

    01.jpg
    Wiseco's look new after a little elbow grease.

    02.jpg
    Cleaned/rebuilt RVR head (G6S-8) and EVO 3 intake
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018

    6K  25

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  22. buddahboost

    buddahboost Proven Member

    365
    57
    Joined Aug 15, 2007
    CHICAGO HEIGHTS, Illinois
    I like the wrap on the water pipe!
     
  23. pksystems

    pksystems Proven Member

    209
    127
    Joined Nov 9, 2003
    Calgary, AB, Canada
    Re-assembly continues.

    At some point while moving around the harness, I managed to break off one of the wires on the knock sensor flush with connector. Grabbed a new plug/pigtail from salvage yard off a Lancer. Twisted/soldered/heatshrinked/wrapped in electrical tape. Good as new.

    Started making brackets for coilpack and transistor. I need to clean up the welds/powdercoat them, but they bolt in.

    20180628_192153 1600.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2018

    6K  25

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  24. pksystems

    pksystems Proven Member

    209
    127
    Joined Nov 9, 2003
    Calgary, AB, Canada
    Added some speed holes to the coil bracket for looks.

    Powdercoated the new brackets. Nothing left to make or powdercoat on this car now.

    Added a decal to the transistor mount. Each decal adds 10hp.

    Blood and sweat have been put into this thing. No tears.... yet.

    blood.jpg
     

    6K  25

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  25. pksystems

    pksystems Proven Member

    209
    127
    Joined Nov 9, 2003
    Calgary, AB, Canada
    Engine is back together.

    Boost leak test complete. Started at 20Psi, down to 10Psi after 43seconds, and it still had pressure after 3 minutes. It's holding better then the last boost leak. I didn't really check for leaks on the FPR, but when I re-adjust it, I'll put some teflon sealant on the treads.

    talon01.jpg

    Couple shots of the cold air box.

    talon02.jpg
    talon03.jpg

    Started playing with Autodesk Recap Photo. I plan to make 3dmodels of the rear badges, so I can 3dprint a new set, and paint them orange.

    I also want a vented hood for this car, but I'm not paying $600 to get an AB style hood shipped to Canada, so I may try 3dprinting those style vents, and making my own hood that will clear the timing cover WITHOUT modification.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018

    6K  25

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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