Resolved Oil pressure/90 filter housing issue

[DSMPT]

so a crush washer and a small shim should increase pressure? And without the crush washer it should decrease? The reason I word it like that is because we talked about shimming it should increase the pressure if I read right. So if it decreases without it, then the ofh is ported to much. Then I could try and shim it untill I find another 90 ofh. .

You are confused. Removing the crush washer and shimming the oil pressure relief valve spring have the same effect. Both is to increase the spring pressure and both would increase the "Max" steady oil pressure. I asked to remove the crush washer because it would be easier, no need to look for a shim that would fit. And as I mentioned that you need the crush washer in there after the test anyways.
I asked you to remove the crush washer just only for a quick test to see result. This test is to see if you would have a higher oil pressure at cold start or not. If you would see higher oil pressure at cold start without the crush washer or by shimming the spring, then your OFH is ported too much.

Im hoping they are sweating if thats a thing. They both are tight. The bypass valve doesn't get a washer correct?

Correct, the valve does require a crush washer.

So my pressure at idle which is 800-1050 is 45ish. When warm It was 25-35. To be honest, I was more concerned about the noise and wasn't paying attention to the pressure. I will double check this info I am telling you prior to the test you mentioned.

So, 45 psi at cold start? If so, it sounds low to me. 25-35 psi when warm sounds fine, maybe a bit high side but I guess it would get lower if the oil is hotter. Also it depends on the oil viscosity.

I absolutely hate taking my timing cover off. Its a once piece cover so I need to remove the driver motor mount, belts, and pulleys. Then put it all back on just to test . Ill work on this as well. I read the straight gears make noise. So I was hoping being new the helical gears would be the noise and just need broke in more.

As for the timing cover, when I build engines and mount it, I always fire up the engine without the cover first. And if I don't find any leak, noise, then I install the cover back. This could avoid doubling the hassle.
As for the noise, it's very hard to tell. I even don't know what kind of noise you are talking about. But if it would be gone without the cover, then something is rubbing the cover.

Other question, Since my previous pump failed. When should I do the first oil change? I am assuming there may be fine shavings that I couldn't get out with air and brake clean. Im assuming this.
So is there harm in only having max pressure be lower than expected? I can rev the car up as well and see if it goes up 10psi per 1000 rpm.

Well, changing oil soon would be a good idea to see if everything is ok.
If you would have 75-80 psi, then no problem. But you shouldn't go higher RPM if your max oil pressure is only 45 psi like you said earlier.

 

[jpmxrider489]

You are confused. Removing the crush washer and shimming the oil pressure relief valve spring have the same effect. Both is to increase the spring pressure and both would increase the "Max" steady oil pressure. I asked to remove the crush washer because it would be easier, no need to look for a shim that would fit. And as I mentioned that you need the crush washer in there after the test anyways.
I asked you to remove the crush washer just only for a quick test to see result. This test is to see if you would have a higher oil pressure at cold start or not. If you would see higher oil pressure at cold start without the crush washer or by shimming the spring, then your OFH is ported too much.


Correct, the valve does require a crush washer.


So, 45 psi at cold start? If so, it sounds low to me. 25-35 psi when warm sounds fine, maybe a bit high side but I guess it would get lower if the oil is hotter. Also it depends on the oil viscosity.


As for the timing cover, when I build engines and mount it, I always fire up the engine without the cover first. And if I don't find any leak, noise, then I install the cover back. This could avoid doubling the hassle.
As for the noise, it's very hard to tell. I even don't know what kind of noise you are talking about. But if it would be gone without the cover, then something is rubbing the cover.


Well, changing oil soon would be a good idea to see if everything is ok.
If you would have 75-80 psi, then no problem. But you shouldn't go higher RPM if your max oil pressure is only 45 psi like you said earlier.

I confirmed with the crush washer cold start is see 50-55 psi. I also found that I overtighten the timing cover and the rubbing was the cam cover and small amount on the lower. So I simply loosed them up a hair.

I went to remove the crush washer but it looks like I need to remove the ofh. I cant fit a socket because of a tab on the front case or ofh. I attached a picture. Is this test really important to do. If so I'll remove the ofh and remove it. I just wanted to avoid taking it off to remove the washer. Then remove again to install the crush washer. Is there a trick?

Another thought. If my pressure cold used to be 70 with bad oil pump, why would it be 55 with new parts and using the same ofh?

Also, I am running rotella t6 15w-40. After I change the oil, I actually was thinking about going with 20-50 vr1 from valvoline.

 

[DSMPT]

I confirmed with the crush washer cold start is see 50-55 psi. I also found that I overtighten the timing cover and the rubbing was the cam cover and small amount on the lower. So I simply loosed them up a hair.

I went to remove the crush washer but it looks like I need to remove the ofh. I cant fit a socket because of a tab on the front case or ofh. I attached a picture. Is this test really important to do. If so I'll remove the ofh and remove it. I just wanted to avoid taking it off to remove the washer. Then remove again to install the crush washer. Is there a trick?

Another thought. If my pressure cold used to be 70 with bad oil pump, why would it be 55 with new parts and using the same ofh?

Also, I am running rotella t6 15w-40. After I change the oil, I actually was thinking about going with 20-50 vr1 from valvoline.

No no, absolutely no need to remove the OFH for now. You can use a 22mm open wrench to remove the pressure relief valve. But you now say you have 50-55 psi at cold start. So when the oil gets warm enough, with the crush washer, check if the oil pressure increase by engine speed and also check what max oil pressure you have. The test was just to check if your OFH is ported too much or not. So if you have a good oil pressure, you don't need to do that at all.

 

[jpmxrider489]

No no, absolutely no need to remove the OFH for now. You can use a 22mm open wrench to remove the pressure relief valve. But you now say you have 50-55 psi at cold start. So when the oil gets warm enough, with the crush washer, check if the oil pressure increase by engine speed and also check what max oil pressure you have. The test was just to check if your OFH is ported too much or not. So if you have a good oil pressure, you don't need to do that at all.

My apologies. When I glanced at it the other day, i was more concerned about the noise. That's why i wanted to double check pressure again. So yes it is 50-55 cold. So tomorrow I'll let the car get warm and at idle I'll rev the car to see what max pressure would be.

If I were able to fit a 22mm wrench in there, is there enough room to unthread it without hitting the tab in the picture? I need to look for the standard for min and max pressure cold and warm.

 

[DSMPT]

My apologies. When I glanced at it the other day, i was more concerned about the noise. That's why i wanted to double check pressure again. So yes it is 50-55 cold. So tomorrow I'll let the car get warm and at idle I'll rev the car to see what max pressure would be.

If I were able to fit a 22mm wrench in there, is there enough room to unthread it without hitting the tab in the picture? I need to look for the standard for min and max pressure cold and warm.

Ah ok I see.
As for removing the oil pressure relief valve, again, if the max oil pressure is not too low or too high, you don't need to do this.
In case if you would need to remove the relief valve, you would have to remove the crank pulley, and maybe you would need to move a little bit the bottom of timing cover to make more room. But you can do that without removing the OFH and the cover. Once it gets loose by a 22mm wrench, you can remove it by hand.

 

[jpmxrider489]

Ah ok I see.
As for removing the oil pressure relief valve, again, if the max oil pressure is not too low or too high, you don't need to do this.
In case if you would need to remove the relief valve, you would have to remove the crank pulley, and maybe you would need to move a little bit the bottom of timing cover to make more room. But you can do that without removing the OFH and the cover. Once it gets loose by a 22mm wrench, you can remove it by hand.

I got the car started cold. Oil pressure was 55 and in less than 1 minute the oil pressure went to 45. I let the car warm up. Oil temp was 121 and coolant was 186. At idle I was at 17 psi which is much better than the 7 I had prior to this project. When I rev the car to 3k my oil pressure was 47 and at 4k it was at 57.

I didn't rev the car higher today. Im hoping tomorrow I can get to revving higher and driving it. I got to fix a trans leak first.

 

[DSMPT]

I got the car started cold. Oil pressure was 55 and in less than 1 minute the oil pressure went to 45. I let the car warm up. Oil temp was 121 and coolant was 186. At idle I was at 17 psi which is much better than the 7 I had prior to this project. When I rev the car to 3k my oil pressure was 47 and at 4k it was at 57.

I didn't rev the car higher today. Im hoping tomorrow I can get to revving higher and driving it. I got to fix a trans leak first.

It sounds nothing is abnormal for now.

 

[jpmxrider489]

Ok. For future reference, what should my min and max be by certain rpms?

 

[DSMPT]

Ok. For future reference, what should my min and max be by certain rpms?

There are no exact numbers because each engine is built differently. Personally I wouldn't be worried if the steady min pressure is no less than 8-10 psi range and the steady max is somewhere between 75-100 psi. It all depends on your setup, oil, clearances etc etc.

 

[jpmxrider489]

Thank you for your help. I greatly appreciate it. If there are other issues, concerns or updates I will post back.

 

[DSMPT]

Thank you for your help. I greatly appreciate it. If there are other issues, concerns or updates I will post back.

If you have no leak and get back the oil pressure, please report back here and make this thread as resolved. So this thread would be a help for someone who has a similar issue in the future.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Aren't you still above minimum oil pressure specs at idle? My engines that I build and run usully have 85-90 cold start and 17 on the money at hot idle. If I ever see that vary, I will think something is going on but those work great for my applications just for comparison. Its what I am running in a 9500 rpm 2.0
Marty

 

[jpmxrider489]

If you have no leak and get back the oil pressure, please report back here and make this thread as resolved. So this thread would be a help for someone who has a similar issue in the future.

I still havent got the car out yet. Still working on some tranny related stuff as well as this. I revved the car up to 6k and came back and let the car idle. The next day there wasnt a puddle under the car. I would say the main leak of concern is fixed. I just need to grab a passenger to watch the gauge at high rpm .

Aren't you still above minimum oil pressure specs at idle? My engines that I build and run usully have 85-90 cold start and 17 on the money at hot idle. If I ever see that vary, I will think something is going on but those work great for my applications just for comparison. Its what I am running in a 9500 rpm 2.0
Marty

My colt start pressure is lower than I thought it would be. I guess thats because the OFH is ported a ton. When warm I see 17psi. It raises about 10psi for every 1k rpm. What weight oil you running? What pressure you see at high rpm?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I run 10w40 dino squeezings and will switch to 20w50 sometime. I see 80-90 psi on a cold 35* start 75-85 at a normal temp cold start. Idle at cold is around 30, or maybe 25. Idle at warm operating temperatures is 17.
Hi rpm oil pressure I will assume is around 70-80 max HOT. I drain with a 12AN line to keep from pooling in the CHRA.
I run an unported OFH and BSE.

 

[dustyboner]

factory spec for 6 bolt and 7 bolt engines:

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[DSMPT]

factory spec for 6 bolt and 7 bolt engines:

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Yeah the factory spec for stock engines. It would depend on the setup. I am sure most of case we have the min pressure somewhere between 10-20 psi at 800-1000 rpm when the oil is warm enough. Anyways the idiot light would come on when it gets lower than approx 7 psi, until then no issue most of case, if the light is working properly.

 

[jpmxrider489]

I run 10w40 dino squeezings and will switch to 20w50 sometime. I see 80-90 psi on a cold 35* start 75-85 at a normal temp cold start. Idle at cold is around 30, or maybe 25. Idle at warm operating temperatures is 17.
Hi rpm oil pressure I will assume is around 70-80 max HOT. I drain with a 12AN line to keep from pooling in the CHRA.
I run an unported OFH and BSE.

I assume you might run a restrictor for your holset since I think 72 is max pressure? I am also running a -12.

factory spec for 6 bolt and 7 bolt engines:

That spec is for a engine with balance shafts I assume? Is there a spec for without the balance shafts?

Yeah the factory spec for stock engines. It would depend on the setup. I am sure most of case we have the min pressure somewhere between 10-20 psi at 800-1000 rpm when the oil is warm enough. Anyways the idiot light would come on when it gets lower than approx 7 psi, until then no issue most of case, if the light is working properly.

That's why I was concerned originally was because my warm pressure was 7ish. I actually removed the dummy light so I can have a extra port on the ofh. Im fine with that since I have a actual gauge and have tested for accuracy. You can probably mark this thread as resolved. I have no leaks. I It will be a little bit before I can drive the car for longer distances. I highly doubt Ill have a issue. I can PM you if for some reason there is a issue. But I dont think ill have anything else wrong.

 

[DSMPT]

That's why I was concerned originally was because my warm pressure was 7ish. I actually removed the dummy light so I can have a extra port on the ofh. Im fine with that since I have a actual gauge and have tested for accuracy. You can probably mark this thread as resolved. I have no leaks. I It will be a little bit before I can drive the car for longer distances. I highly doubt Ill have a issue. I can PM you if for some reason there is a issue. But I dont think ill have anything else wrong.

So you revved to 6K rpm, What pressure did you have at 6k rpm? That's probably your max pressure.
As I mentioned before that your had low pressure at idle before is most likely by the oil pump failure. If you would see "low" high side pressure, that's because probably the OFH is ported too much.
7 psi is kinda border line at idle. That's why the light comes on around that pressure. I was taught that the actual min pressure at idle that 4g63 can survive is around 5-6 psi, no lower than that. But it would be depending on the situation, like bearing clearance, how long you have that pressure, oil type, temp etc etc, even the gauge accuracy. So it's hard to tell what exactly the min pressure you can have is.
As long as I hear what you are reporting about the pressure, it sounds normal so far. At least your min oil pressure 17 psi is fine. I believe it should be fine unless bearings have had some damage from the previous pump's failure.
P.S. You are the one who can mark it as resolved as you are the original poster. And yes sure you can PM me anytime.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I assume you might run a restrictor for your holset since I think 72 is max pressure? I am also running a -12.

No restrictor. When I had it freshened up by Justin, he said whatever I was doing, it showed no thrust surface wear so keep doing what I am doing. The more important thing is to drain it well. I have a 12an drain.