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Oil pressure/90 filter housing issue

Posted by jpmxrider489, May 5, 2020

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  1. jpmxrider489

    jpmxrider489 Supporting VIP

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    On my 6 bolt with 7 bolt head that is in my 2g, I am trying to diagnose low and high pressure issue. I do not have balance shafts and I dont know if the ofh was ported or not.

    Cold start=70 psi
    Warm=15
    Cruising=30-50

    My issue is I am leaking oil under the timing cover and for the life of me I cant pin point where it is coming from. I also see oil on the outside of the timing cover. I dont know if its spraying or what. When I pulled the timing cover, there was oil traces on some of the timing component bolts. The balance shaft area seems to be leak free. Oil just seems to be getting everywhere. It's not enough to show on the dipstick.

    Second issue, after a short drive and a few pulls, I pull in the garage, the car is wanting to stall a little and oil pressure goes 6-8 psi without balance shafts. Can something be wrong with the pressure relief valve? Or what should the solution be. And could this be related to causing my leak? This low oil pressure issue is only after driving. I cant find the leak even with it idling.
     

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  2. DSMPT

    DSMPT Proven Member

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    As for the oil leak, there are many spots to check under the timing cover such as cam seals/crank seal/behind the tensioner bolts etc etc, so you should upload some pics. that would be a shortcut to distinguish the leaking location.
    As for the second issue, that's normal you get lower oil pressure while stalling. Oil pressure follows engine speed. I imagine the stalling is another issue. It's not related to the oil leaking and your pressure relief valve is at least not stuck wide open. But your oil pressure is a bit lower side. you should state oil pressure by each 1000RPM or so.
     

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  3. luv2rallye

    luv2rallye DSM Wiseman

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  4. TK's9d2TSi

    TK's9d2TSi Supporting Member

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    Can’t he raise the pressure by shimming the return spring?
     

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  5. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

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    Do like Gary says and only run it for a minute then shut her off and grab your UV (Black) light and look for the green/yellow cast. The oil dye only takes a little bit, you shouldn't have to use the whole bottle even tho they are small.

    I think that is possible Tony, nice!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2020

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  6. jpmxrider489

    jpmxrider489 Supporting VIP

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    Im going to get the dye today. I should take the timing cover off (mine is one piece) then start the car?

    Doing this would raise pressure all the way across rpm range right? Im already seeing 70 on a cold start. Holsets say no more than 72. I would be hesitant to do that.
     

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  7. TK's9d2TSi

    TK's9d2TSi Supporting Member

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    Yes you can start the car with the cover off.

    Yes it will raise the pressure across the board. It's basically tightening the spring for the relief port.
     

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  8. jpmxrider489

    jpmxrider489 Supporting VIP

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    Here are the pictures before wiping everything clean. I did this a month ago to and cleaned everything pretty well. So what you see in the pictures is all new. I'll wipe everything and try the dye.

    Is there anything under the timing cover that is easily fixable? Without retiming the engine? I was thinking about using Lucas engine oil stop leak.
     

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  9. TK's9d2TSi

    TK's9d2TSi Supporting Member

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    Looks like exhaust cam seal is leaking.
     

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  10. jpmxrider489

    jpmxrider489 Supporting VIP

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    Here are the other pics. I hit post before they were uploaded. Oops.
     

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  11. DSMPT

    DSMPT Proven Member

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    So you have oil on the upper side, too. The timing belt has oil on it? If not, most likely oil is coming from the camshaft seals behind the cam gears or the valve cover. If the belt has oil, possibly from the bottom side, the belt is bringing up oil and spreads it to everywhere.
    Do not put a oil stop leak thingy into the engine. Should fix it physically.

    As for the oil pressure, if you are worried a lot. Just remove the OFH and see how much it's ported. Or since you have a 90 OFH, the external oil cooler also affects the oil pressure.
     

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  12. jpmxrider489

    jpmxrider489 Supporting VIP

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    So I used the dye and took a while. But you were right about the belt pulling oil up top. When looking at the engine through the wheel well, the pully to the right of the crank pully, is the one leaking. But it is leaking out from the nut and washer. I do not see oil on the ledge of the front case or on the inside of the pully. I would see it running. It appears just to be leaking from the nut. Is that a seal issue? From looking at my old blown up motor, it appears that the seal on the front case has little to do with the pully though. I read something about clogging up the oil galley?
     

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  13. jpmxrider489

    jpmxrider489 Supporting VIP

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    These pictures are of my old blown up motor, and NOT my current one.

    The pulley is off but its leaking around that nut with the pulley on. The left one. The other picture is the little whole that might be clogged?

    I had a positive crankcase pressure at one point.
     

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  14. jpmxrider489

    jpmxrider489 Supporting VIP

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    It appears after more reading. There is supposed to be a plug for the oil pump? Or maybe it's not sealed well enough? So would red rtv around the threads for the nut fix this or should I take the oil pump sprocket off? Above I was calling it a pulley. Not sure what the correct term is. I dont really want to deal with timing the engine if I dont have to.
     

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  15. DSMPT

    DSMPT Proven Member

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    The plug you are talking about is the one in the green circle. It's sealed by an o-ring under the plug (The part number for the o-ring is MD041021). And the seal for the oil pump drive gear is where the blue circle is (The part number for the seal is MD365697). Both can cause to leak. If you are sure that oil is leaking from there, just replace both. When you remove the drive gear seal, you can see if the tiny hole is clogged or not (I think it's thin).
    Also the crank shaft seal, all oil pump/filter housing/tensioner bolts, two oil pan bolt under the timing belt and the oil filter housing gasket are the popular spots to leak. So should check them.

    https://www.extremepsi.com/store/OEM-Front-Case-Castle-Plug-O-Ring-Mitsubishi.html
    https://www.extremepsi.com/store/OEM-Oil-Pump-Shaft-Seal-Mitsubishi-Eclipse-90-99.html

    20200506_214428.jpg
     

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  16. jpmxrider489

    jpmxrider489 Supporting VIP

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    When I was doing the dye test, I didnt idle long because the oil would be moved everywhere by the belt. But I dont see any oul anywhere except the pump sprocket threads.

    What would symtoms be of a clogged port there? I read somewhere about low oil pressure at idle but not sure if it's related to this.

    The green seal is definitely not leaking and almost looks like it was installed new.

    After I replace these, I'll report back with oil pressure throughout the rpm range.
     

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  17. DSMPT

    DSMPT Proven Member

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    The tiny hole in the blue circle in the pic above is just to drain oil to crankcase. The hole itself doesn't have oil pressure. So even it's clogged, it doesn't cause the low oil pressure but yes it may cause leak from the seal. I think what you read about is the pressure relief port in oil filter housing. There is a pressure relief valve. If it's stuck in the middle way or when fully open, then yes it would cause low oil pressure issue. if it's stuck when fully closed, it would cause high pressure issue.
     

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  18. jpmxrider489

    jpmxrider489 Supporting VIP

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    So do these holes have anything to do with the hole that I think may be clogged since the seal is leaking? I'm going to pull it off tomorow to inspect it. How would I unclog it. I'm thinking maybe the person who installed it put to much sealant. I know when I installed the oil pan, I could of had some deep into the holes in the pic below.
     

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  19. DSMPT

    DSMPT Proven Member

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    I'm not so sure which holes you are exactly talking about but the tiny hole I'm talking about is connected to the hole in another pic below. Yeah it could be clogged by sealant. If it's clogged, you can use a pick or wire to push/scrape out. Just try not to drop it in the oil pan. Your oil pump in the pic is 7 bolt, so it looks a bit different.

    20200506_214428.jpg DSC_2001.JPG
     

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  20. jpmxrider489

    jpmxrider489 Supporting VIP

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    Your theory was right. The timing belt was bringing oil up. The oil pump sprocket was leaking around the nut and not the seal. I put some loctite around the nut and sealing surfaces and it appears to have fixed the issue. Only have 15 min of drive time since. Weathers been bad. Now I'm just trying to make sure my pan seals good. The oil port hole was not clogged either.

    Now for the oil pressure. Cruising around I'm consistently around 30-40psi. With the in neutral and free revving. I see 40psi at 3k, 50 at 4k, and 60 at 5k. But after a drive and I let it idle, I'm seeing like 6-10. More like 7-8. That is concerning? The car is running great.
     

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  21. DSMPT

    DSMPT Proven Member

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    If you are 100% sure that the oil is coming from the oil pump sprocket nut (from the thread part), then the drive gear seal is the one bad, the seal behind the sprocket. (the seal in green circle in the pic below) You have to replace it. And the oil pump sprocket nut doesn't have a washer, only one flanged nut. (the blue circle)

    As for the oil pressure, assuming there is no leak internally, then most likely the oil filter housing is ported. I think it's fine but a bit low side IMO. If you want to increase the pressure, you can shim the pressure relief plunger spring (the red circle) with 10~11mm OD washer or simply replace the OFH with one that is not ported much.

    スクリーンショット 2020-05-12 12.28.15.jpg
    スクリーンショット 2020-05-12 12.59.57.jpg
    スクリーンショット 2020-05-12 13.23.11.jpg
     

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  22. jpmxrider489

    jpmxrider489 Supporting VIP

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    I replaced that seal and the leak appears to be fixed.

    The oil pressure does seem low. I am worried if I shim the spring, ill increase pressure to much for the holset turbos. I can run a restrictor if needed. On a cold start I already see 70psi. If it were leaking internally, what would other symptoms be and how would I check that?
     

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  23. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

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    Its a Holset, they would see more pressure than that in their normal service use. Don't restrict it, drain it well.
    @JusMX141 , any comments on this is appreciated!

    BTW, I run 90 lbs cold start, idle at 16 hot. Lots of pressure as I go thru the revs. I just drain it with the biggest line I can.
     

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  24. DSMPT

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    Good to know. So the seal was the cause.

    I don't think you need to be worried that much. You can start from a very thin shim and carefully adding more as needed. and then see if it would increase the pressure. If it wouldn't increase the pressure at all, the OFH is ported too much or the pressure is possibly released at somewhere else, such as stuck open oil squirter check valve or so. In case if shimming wouldn't work, I recommend to remove the OFH first to inspect the pressure relief port.
     

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  25. jpmxrider489

    jpmxrider489 Supporting VIP

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    After reading a ton of info regarding holsets and comments from justin. Its reccomend to stay within the specs. I am running a -12 drain with a -4 feed.

    The car is running fine other than then the low pressure when warm. I'm cool with not worrying about it. But is this a bad thing if pressure is going somewhere internally? I could try the shim thing and if it doesnt change pressure, I know where else to look.
     

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