Need some advice... :(

[talon2gbuyer]

Yea I turned it down, and the pressure was set that way when I bought it. But its ad about 43-44 right now.

 

[Tyeler18]

Any update?

 

[talon2gbuyer]

No, nothing yet. I keep waiting for Craig to chime in on the ld test results. I've about run put of ideas here. The fpr is holding steady at 44psi ish. Should be ordering link v3 lite here on Friday. But I'm not even sure where to look now, most of the options that are normal for these cars has been exhausted.

 

[talon2gbuyer]

You mentioned a check valve in the vacuum brake booster hose, is it actually in the hose or on the vbb side?

 

[BogusSVO]

Wow.. 100 psi of fuel pressure.

450cc @43.5psi same injector at 100psi would be 682cc

I can see that causing a flooding issue :/

Have you tried starting it since you adjuted the fuel pressure?

 

[ChiTownHussla]

thats was the flooding issue . wow

 

[talon2gbuyer]

No, I installed the afpr after I changed the injectors back, but didn't try to start it or anything. I just used the fuel pump check to see what the pressure was. So basically I was getting the wet plugs before I installed the afpr, if that makes sense.

 

[Tyeler18]

So you have tried starting it since you lowered the fuel pressure? Wouldn't hurt to give it a shot, your old FPR could've* been completely destroyed and not allowing any pressure to build up. Worth a shot at least.

 

[talon2gbuyer]

True. It's snowing today but ill probably try it tomorrow when its sunny outside.

 

[snowborder714]

Leak-down results
#1 = 79 / 48
#2 = 80 / 81
#3 = 66 / 5
#4 = 75 / 58

Were all cylinders at TDC when tested? You should've rotated the engine after testing 2 cylinders to be able to test the other two.

Any idea where the leaks were? All but one of those test results look bad (cylinder #3 looks good). I'd say you've got a big problem if the test was performed properly.

More info on the test if you didn't read it before doing it.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/338152-compression-leak-down-testing.html

 

[talon2gbuyer]

I actually printed out that thread when I did the test. I did cylinders 1 and 4 and then 2 and 3 at the same time as they should be at tdc at the same time. I could hear air coming out of the head, but can't narrow it down more than that. I'm gonna run the test again on Friday to make sure.

 

[Timechg]

Even if you checked CPS/CAS, can you use a noid light on the injectors to see if they are getting power (pulsing) for the injectors to spray? You have verified that you are getting spark, but are you actually getting fuel down the cylinders?

 

[Calan]

Okie dokie, well after a while my tester finally got here today. So i went outside and ran the test (or so I think..) but the numbers are kinda making me question whether I did it right or not. Here is what I got across all 4 cylinders.

Left hand Gauge / Right hand Gauge reading

#1 = 79 / 48
#2 = 80 / 81
#3 = 66 / 5
#4 = 75 / 58

Ben... I don't know that I trust those numbers (assuming that is input pressure and a percentage of leakage).

For one thing, the pressure you inject should be roughly the same on each cylinder. It's not really critical as to how much, but it should be about the same; not 66psi on one cylinder and 80psi on another.

Second, the leakage percentages don't make sense. If you were leaking across the fire ring between two cylinders (a common failure), you would see fairly close leakage on the two adjacent cylinders... and you would hear air coming out of the spark plug hole of the cylinder next to the one you are testing.

So if cylinder #2 has 81% leakage (), where is it going? If it's going past the rings, you'll hear a LOT of air coming out of the VC vent/PCV valve. If it's leaking across a fire ring, cylinder 1 or 3 would be reading about the same and you'll hear the air coming from one of those plug holes. Same thing for a bent valve; there is no way you wouldn't hear that much air rushing out of the intake or exhaust. (Did you happen to pull the VC and physically make sure the valves were all closed before doing the test?)

And I'm not buying 3 cylinders looking like they are way past the point of needing a rebuild, while one cylinder has less leakage than a very well built new engine.

These numbers just don't add up IMO. Or...your head and/or HG is seriously hosed.

 

[Tyeler18]

Ben... I don't know that I trust those numbers (assuming that is input pressure and a percentage of leakage).

For one thing, the pressure you inject should be roughly the same on each cylinder. It's not really critical as to how much, but it should be about the same; not 66psi on one cylinder and 80psi on another.

Second, the leakage percentages don't make sense. If you were leaking across the fire ring between two cylinders (a common failure), you would see fairly close leakage on the two adjacent cylinders... and you would hear air coming out of the spark plug hole of the cylinder next to the one you are testing.

So if cylinder #2 has 81% leakage (), where is it going? If it's going past the rings, you'll hear a LOT of air coming out of the VC vent/PCV valve. If it's leaking across a fire ring, cylinder 1 or 3 would be reading about the same and you'll hear the air coming from one of those plug holes. Same thing for a bent valve; there is no way you wouldn't hear that much air rushing out of the intake or exhaust.

And I'm not buying 3 cylinders looking like they are way past the point of needing a rebuild, while one cylinder has less leakage than a very well built new engine.

These numbers just don't add up IMO.

EDIT:

Did you happen to pull the VC and physically make sure the valves were all closed before doing the test?

I agree. It seems even if he did have it at TDC, that the crank moved (possibly without him knowing) causing the valves to open slightly. That was the problem I was experiencing while doing my leak down and had to use a ratchet to lock the crank against the suspension. I'd assume he tested cyl 3 before cyl 2 and cyl 3 must've stayed put, while cyl 2 moved down opening the valves.

 

[talon2gbuyer]

Thanks for your input craig, I agree with your assessment. When i did the test I wasn't completely sure how the numbers were supposed to look, but it does appear that I did not do the test correctly. I'm going to wait until probably Saturday or Sunday and re-do the test when its a tad warmer outside. Also, any likelihood that the cylinders are flooded with gas due to the 100psi AFPR before adjusting? Thanks for the continued input guys, i really appreciate it

And before I forget Tyeler I tested the cylinders in this order : 1, 4 2, 3. So i'm not quite sure what your getting at there?

 

[Calan]

...and cyl 3 must've stayed put, while cyl 2 moved down opening the valves.

That would be a hell of a trick to pull off. It would require a missing rod cap, broken rod, or missing wrist pin... and a really stuck piston.

Also, any likelihood that the cylinders are flooded with gas due to the 100psi AFPR before adjusting?

Not if it's been sitting for more than an hour or two. It's either all evaporated, or has drained past the rings into the pan and is diluting your oil.

 

[talon2gbuyer]

Hey all, just got the front o2 installed and tried turning it over again. Same thing, cranks but doesn't start. This time there is smoke coming from the turbo manifold and turbo area. No idea what is burning. Seems to be one thing after another here

 

[Tyeler18]

That would be a hell of a trick to pull off. It would require a missing rod cap, broken rod, or missing wrist pin... and a really stuck piston.

What I meant was when he tested cyl 3 the piston probably didn't move at all, then when he went to test cyl 2 it moved and caused the higher leak-down %. If he tested cyl 3 and cyl 2 moved down on it's own that'd be one crazy engine.

What color is the smoke coming from the turbo?

 

[talon2gbuyer]

It looks to be just normal smoke, no real color to it. I'm going to have a tow come for it and bring it to a local shop, getting sick of it just sitting here. I'll let you guys know what they say

 

[talon2gbuyer]

Well the talon has been at the shop for almost a week and have reverified timing, ignition and fuel. They seem to think that for some reason the ignition is firing out of order, but they are going to be checking the cps and cas this coming week. So no definitive answer yet, ill keep you guys posted.

 

[kanusky1990]

Hey, just read this whole thread. From the outside looking in, my bets on the safc. The wiring could be wrong or the settings could be wrong. If I read correctly, the car ran, you changed things but mainly turbo, injectors, and installed the safc. When you were troubleshooting, you installed the stock injectors but all you did was zero out the safc. That threw up a red flag to me because if something is not right with the safc or its wiring, zeroing it out won't help. (Just like it didn't work with bigger injectors and the "proper settings"). I know it's at the shop now but I would say throw stock injectors in, and rip that safc out and try that. It's the only thing you didn't do/check and is different from before when the car ran. Hope you figure it out.

 

[snowborder714]

I tried to convince him to rip the SAFC out, but he didn't want to until he could get link. That was my thought as well, but I looked at the SAFC seemed to be hooked up properly. Whether the connections were solid or not, that's a different story as I didn't dig that deep. But it didn't seem to throw any readings off when I installed my copy of link in.

 

[kanusky1990]

Hm... Well I messed with a safc neo years ago and I know there's weird settings that you select in it. Did he buy it new/have the paperwork for installation and configuring? I only ask cause it seems like if everything mechanically is working (which it seems to be) then it must be ecu/electrical. And his ecu obviously worked before, and now there's this thing that is manipulating the ecu's output signals installed and the car doesn't run...

Now because the safc manipulates the output signals, wouldn't link just read from the ecu? So the manipulated signals won't log?

I'm just trying to help problem solve. Just throwing things out there to get a different perspective.

 

[snowborder714]

Some of the wiring for the SAFC just tap into a current wire (i.e. TPS signal), but the signal that's manipulated is the MAS. You have to cut this wire and connect two different wires from the SAFC to each end (putting the SAFC in line). I had verified that these connections were good..not great, but shouldn't have caused any issues. I'd still want to rip it completely out and redo the wiring that was touched for the install, just to make sure that wasn't causing any issues.

Now, I don't know a thing about SAFC units and "zeroing" them out, so Ben took care of all of that. I would have no idea if it was done properly/fully or not.

 

[talon2gbuyer]

In terms of zeroing it out with the stockers, I just put all the fuel curve settings to +/- 0 all the way to redline (8k) and left the hi and low point throttle at low =30% and high is = 60%. So I wouldn't think that would cause a no start. It's also important to realize that the car was having running issued before I started upgrading. It would run for about 30 seconds then sputter out and die. Now it just won't start period. Not sure if that changes anything solution wise? I'll also have the shop check out the safc, as they have some experience wig them as well. Fyi the shop is FAST of West Chester, located right off of the 202 bypass Brian, I think its in your area if I'm not too mistaken.