Max safe boost? [Merged 10-6]

[Turbolaser]

Is it safe to do the boost contol solenoid mod on a stock 1G?

 

[2gGSXEclipse]

I have been running 20lbs of boost on my motor for almost 8 months and its fine. I think 20 should be safe

 

[DeadsEvolution1]

How much boost can I run on a 16G? What is the Max? I just bought a walbro 255 fuel pump, 770 injectors, a gm maf and a maf translator with a MBC. EGR is blocked off, I have 3 inch apexi exhaust, 16G turbo, bpr6 spark plugs with NGK wires, FMIC with HKS SSQV BOV, Felpro head gasket with ARP head studs, 2G ported exhaust manifold with ported o2 housing, and I am going to buy an emprom ecu and get a SAFC with a logger to help tune.

Just info on my car to help me with my question

 

[91-gsx]

How much boost can I run on a 16G? What is the Max? I just bought a walbro 255 fuel pump, 770 injectors, a gm maf and a maf translator with a MBC. EGR is blocked off, I have 3 inch apexi exhaust, 16G turbo, bpr6 spark plugs with NGK wires, FMIC with HKS SSQV BOV, Felpro head gasket with ARP head studs, 2G ported exhaust manifold with ported o2 housing, and I am going to buy an emprom ecu and get a SAFC with a logger to help tune.

Just info on my car to help me with my question

What do you plan on using the EPROM ECU for? Are you going to get chips made? Just my opinion, but you should look into DSMLINK. It allows you to tune and log with the EPROM ECU. Very easy to use, and the members on the DSMLINK forum you get access to are a wealth of information.

Once you have a way to tune the car, whether it is an SAFC/logger/chip combo or DSMLINK. You should look into getting a set of BR7ES NGK spark plugs for the additional boost pressure you will be running. They are one step colder and they do not have the protruding tip.

What kind of 16g turbo are you running, or if your not sure, what is the number on the compressor(aluminum) side of the turbo? What octane gasoline do you plan on running, or what type of fuel do you plan on running?

As far as how much boost you can run, that depends on how much timing you want to run, and how high of an air to fuel ratio you want to run with the conditions you have available and fuel at hand. There are too many variables to tell you how much boost you can run. But, the 16g turbo has seen 40psi spikes in boost on other cars I have read about.

 

[airmail96]

Dsmlink would also allow you to get rid of your gm maf translator you could also use jackal to tune with. When you get your new plugs make sure to gap them properly. If you plan on getting serious with your tuning I would look into getting a wb o2 also. As far as how much boost you plan on running I think it all depends on timing like stated above, and just generally how well you can tune the car. I know some cars with the evo 16g push high 20's on race gas.

 

[viperlp01]

I have link and a maf t... I running 24psi on pump at a 11.2 a/f with alittle knock.. I have the ability to take away timing... so i took one degree away from 5k up and no knock... evo 3 with 680s...

I would be careful with your car because your timing maps are rediculously agressive at 5-6k... If you had a way to change that then there you go..

 

[JusMX141]

How much boost can I run on a 16G?

Nobody on here can answer this for you. It depends on your tune, the outside air temp, intercooler efficiency, humidity....there are far too many variables.

If you're asking how much absolute boost a 16G can make, weld your wastegate shut and let us know what happens.

 

[DeadsEvolution1]

DSM Link allows me to get rid of a GM Maf and the Maf translator? Also I understand the variables but just wanted to see what other people are doing. I only run pump gas and highest octane here in New Mexico is 91. I was getting an eprom to use a SAFC with but if the DSM link will be better I will use that. As far as timing my car right now is at 5BTDC and I have decided how much further to go yet. The 16G is a 14B with a 16G compressor inside it made from G POP SHOP I think. Not totally sure though.

 

[kottyking]

It allows you to get rid of the translator, but you still need the maf.

 

[cooldude919]

It allows you to get rid of the translator, but you still need the maf.

With dsmlink v3 he could go speed density and wouldnt need a maf. I plan on going SD on my current build.

 

[DeadsEvolution1]

So That would be awesome to get rid of the maf. I don't like the extra couplers in the FMIC. I just feel like it's more potential to have boost leaks but I know that's usually not the case.

I just wanted to see if I can push this 16G to 25PSI without any problems. Or if I should just get another turbo like a 20G or bigger maybe

 

[Calan]

So That would be awesome to get rid of the maf. I don't like the extra couplers in the FMIC. I just feel like it's more potential to have boost leaks but I know that's usually not the case.

I just wanted to see if I can push this 16G to 25PSI without any problems. Or if I should just get another turbo like a 20G or bigger maybe

You're gonna have couplers at the FMIC regardless. As for extra ones in the UICP, it's not anymore of a problem than anywhere else. You can have 10 couplers as long as they use good clamps and are installed properly (although it would look pretty funky).

I pushed my 16g to 25psi with no problems, although I was at the absolute edge of it being practical...but that doesn't mean you can on your car. Like Justin said, it totally depends on way too many variables.

Not to be an a$$, but if you are asking these types of questions, you shouldn't even try to get to 25psi on a 16g until you learn a lot more about tuning and have the right tools to do it correctly. Stay around 17-18psi max, until your truly ready to start pushing the envelope.

Unless you're made of money and a new motor isn't a big deal

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

I only run pump gas and highest octane here in New Mexico is 91.

I run 91 octane on my Small 16g with meth injection at 25psi. This is my daily driver it consistantly sees that much boost on a daily basis. No Knock

I was getting an eprom to use a SAFC with but if the DSM link will be better I will use that.

Yes DSMlink is better than a SAFC. You will be able to adjust your timing map so that you won't knock at WOT.

As far as timing my car right now is at 5BTDC and I have decided how much further to go yet.

What you're referring to is base timing. That should always be set at 5*BTDC. What everyone else has been talking about is the Open Loop timing map (Timing that is used at WOT)

You must come from a distributor type ignition system background where you dial in the amount of advance you want with a timing light and twisting the distributor. Then based on the weights and springs you can calculate the total mechanical advance seen.

Base timing on a DSM should always be set to 5*BTDC verified with a timing light. This is to calibrate the CAS with the ECU. It's going to assume wherever you set the CAS to when setting the timing that it is 5* whether it is or not. After the base timing is set the ECU takes over from there, basing it's timing advances on the timing map placed in the ECU.

So, with that said, with DSMlink or other EPROM editing and burning software you can control the timing advance you get at WOT while in boost to keep from knocking without ever having to break out a timing light. (Except of course to set the base timing.) So, let's bust out the laptops and get to tuning!!

The 16G is a 14B with a 16G compressor inside it made from G POP SHOP I think. Not totally sure though.

Get exact measurements of the compressor wheel. There are a couple different varients of the 16g compressor.

 

[DeadsEvolution1]

I know I don't know much about tuning calan but I can learn very easily. I see no reason to not try to tune my car. I have a local DSM website here with a lot of people who can help me tune if needed so I am not concerned about that. My question was to make sure that My 16G can do what I want it to if not I was going to get another turbo.

 

[Calan]

Like I said, I wasn't trying to be an a$$ Andrew... but 25psi on a 16g is right at the limit for most setups. If your timing glitches, IDC's max, or AFR drops for just a second and you aren't all over it as it happens, you'll get knock fast... and at that point it's really easy for your motor to go kablooy.

 

[hediki12]

How much boost can I run on a 16G? What is the Max? I just bought a walbro 255 fuel pump, 770 injectors, a gm maf and a maf translator with a MBC. EGR is blocked off, I have 3 inch apexi exhaust, 16G turbo, bpr6 spark plugs with NGK wires, FMIC with HKS SSQV BOV, Felpro head gasket with ARP head studs, 2G ported exhaust manifold with ported o2 housing, and I am going to buy an emprom ecu and get a SAFC with a logger to help tune.

Just info on my car to help me with my question

umm i think ive seen that the evo316g is like 77% efficient. and the link im posting is for 60% efficiency. check post #2 of this link
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/193785-whats-turbo-flow.html#post1613365

25psi should yield the most. hope this helps and actually answers your question

 

[DeadsEvolution1]

umm i think ive seen that the evo316g is like 77% efficient. and the link im posting is for 60% efficiency. check post #2 of this link
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/193785-whats-turbo-flow.html#post1613365

25psi should yield the most. hope this helps and actually answers your question

Yes that did thank you. I like the T3/t4 with that high of a HP rating makes me want to give it a shot just need a different exhaust manifold correct? But If my 16G can put out 25PSI than that would be good for me. I'm only a FWD and not trying to tune crazy. I want a car I can wake up and decide to drive if I want to and my car is finally at that point now.

I am going to go with a DSM Link the V3 is what I am thinking, I want to get rid of my MAF but it's not a big issue. Also I plan to get rid of the Translator so I need the MAF cable but I found it on a site for our cars. I figure tuning with the V3 way better especially since I read about it. So Thanks for that info on it.

 

[hediki12]

Yes that did thank you. I like the T3/t4 with that high of a HP rating makes me want to give it a shot just need a different exhaust manifold correct? But If my 16G can put out 25PSI than that would be good for me. I'm only a FWD and not trying to tune crazy. I want a car I can wake up and decide to drive if I want to and my car is finally at that point now.

I am going to go with a DSM Link the V3 is what I am thinking, I want to get rid of my MAF but it's not a big issue. Also I plan to get rid of the Translator so I need the MAF cable but I found it on a site for our cars. I figure tuning with the V3 way better especially since I read about it. So Thanks for that info on it.

hope you read post 5 of that link as well forgot to tell you. but umm yea how much are you trying to make? or what 1/4mile time or you aiming for? if your not looking for monstrous power but want a up-and-goer then mhievo316g is sufficient or a 20g. i don't see the point of getting a t3/t4 if your fwd and not going over lets say 390whp (which a 16g can do and a 20g can do "look @ post 5 of that link"). im going 20g by spring plus t3/4 i just gonna cost you more... buying new exhaust manifold and what ever else you may need, also there not easy to come buy used. so the money you spend getting a t3/t4 setup get a 20g (direct bolt on if i remember properly) and the get alky and h20 injection tune and crack up the boost. this is just my opinion though. good luck keep us posted.!

 

[DeadsEvolution1]

Well I want to tune with the V3 so I more than likely will. As for as power wise and what I want to do is run mid 13's in a my FWD laser but be able to daily drive it if I want to have power or I feel like going fast. So 13's in a FWD will be somewhat difficult. I will need suspension work done and potentially slicks for the track.

 

[DeadsEvolution1]

So guys I have another quesiton that is related to this topic on the forum so I figured I'd use my same post. I just got a MBC in and I can not tap it to outlet on turbo or near it. I have a FMIC and I do not know where to tap. It said I can run a hose from the waste gate to the MBC than to the intake manifol but if I do that where do my vacuum line to my HKS SSQV go to?
Any help would be great

 

[kottyking]

So That would be awesome to get rid of the maf. I don't like the extra couplers in the FMIC. I just feel like it's more potential to have boost leaks but I know that's usually not the case.

I just wanted to see if I can push this 16G to 25PSI without any problems. Or if I should just get another turbo like a 20G or bigger maybe

You can also use the free Jackal tuning software for 1g's and you would have a complete speed density setup with all the correct parts.

 

[DeadsEvolution1]

You can also use the free Jackal tuning software for 1g's and you would have a complete speed density setup with all the correct parts.

So with my current setup right now with that software i would be set?

 

[My1GLaser]

So with my current setup right now with that software i would be set?

I don't know much about Jackal, but to run speed density you will need a MAP & IAT sensor. So you can't use your current MAS for that...

As for the MBC, tee into your fuel pressure regulator vac line. Teeing into the BOV isn't recommended. Alternately you can unscrew the plug in the intake manifold right near the EGR. There is a large port that runs the length of the IM where the PCV comes off of and the ends have plugs. I screwed vac nipples into mine and use one for the MAP sensor and the other for my MBC.

DSMLink is the best upgrade I have ever made for my car. I run V2, but just started using V3 software...I definitely need to upgrade to that sh_t soon.

 

[DeadsEvolution1]

It just needs to be a vacuum port correct? Ok i will figure something out.

I will go with the link it sounds better and once I learn how to use it I'm sure it will better

 

[tkelly27]

Did you do basic maintenance?

Jackal lets you get rid of the mass air sensor and it's 1/3rd the cost of link. Actually you can sell the maf and translator and have enough for jackal. You can also edit your own hex and burn chips even cheaper than that. There's a lot of options as far as tuning goes, and you shouldn't just jump into one. I started with burning chips, then I got into jackal. A lot of people like dsmlink, but I'm not convinced the majority of them have tried any other tuning solutions. It's not worth the money for me, but it is a bit more plug and play for those less technologically inclined. Jackal will also be having some features in the future that link won't, and is moving in a direction that I'm more into.

No need for slicks to run 13's, even in a FWD. Good tires, yes, slicks, no, even though they will help. No need for a 16g either. Probably don't need to tune it with anything special if you are on a budget, an AFC will cut it. You won't be satisfied with 13's though.

I'd start with a front mount. If you get a quality kit, there are only 4 or 5 cocuplers, and they all have beaded ends and T bolt clamps, no worries about them popping off. Exhaust next, 3" is fine, you'll get creep, but creep is f*in fun! Make yourself a boost controller and you might get 13's if you are a good driver. Drop some weight and you'll get there without much trouble.

Then, take some time and consider what your options are for tuning and what is best for you, what kind of fuel you want to run (750's may or may not cut it for a maxed out 16g on E85), how much faster you want to go, etc. etc.

Depending on where you are going, the $ you were going to spend on a tuning device could be put into suspension and traction control. MrPeepers on here is running 11's in an AWD with a 16g and using an AFC with a 2G mas to compensate for really big injectors running E85. It's a slick setup and he got most of it for free.

 

[DeadsEvolution1]

Money really isn't an issue not to sound like a jerk but still. now I have that FMIC that was on the group buy on here. GM maf is used but working well, maf translator is new. I just did a motor swap not to long ago so it is well maintained plugs wires oil etc. Technology not my downfall at all I already know alot and I am going to be an electrical engineer after I am done with school so no problems there