FP 68HTA dyno results

[Boug]

No you can't. It's a 16g with a big compressor wheel.

OK. Thanks.

If you can't get any more boost than that, make up a better WGA. My 16G only held 22psi on the stock WGA, so I rigged up a Holset WGA (runs about 20psi with no boost controller), and now it holds at least 25. When I was running an Evo 8 ECU and ECU controlled boost with the Holset WGA I could hold 28-29+ at the lowest point which was 6300 rpms.

Care to share a bit more about the Holset WGA for those of us looking to hold a bit more up top? Would this be a great upgrade regardless of which stock-framed turbo is ran on a 1G/2G?

 

[Boug]

This has been a very informative thread with a lot of useful details. One of the things I was hoping to see is critism from the 16G and 20G fellahs to see if the 68HTA can stand the test. I believe the answer is pretty marginal.

I'll keep the 414awhp/459 torque of my 16G.

Wow! Did you really make that much out of a 16G? PM sent!

If this is a load bearing dyno than it blows the 16G out of the water hp wise. Most 16Gs produce more TQ than HP. If it's another dynojet then that's right around what a 16G can do, guessing this is on E85 and not pump.

Was this determination ever made?

Another option is the BEP housing for the MHI bolt-on turbos. We ran one awhile back on a TD06H-20G and it worked well. Their housing flows like a ported 8cm but has a more efficient symmetrical teardrop shaped volute.

Doing this would theoretically result in more whp, right? However, it'll reduce the amount of torque produced, right?

And where can you find one of these for an MHI turbo?

You can check here: Holset housing items - Get great deals on Parts Accessories items on eBay Motors!

Bolt on 11% more airflow, yes please. But judging from my other HTA turbo, yeah it should be a knock out. AND IT BOLTS ON wooooo!

Name one other option out there that spools like a small 16g and flows like a 50 trim for less than the HTA68 costs (including an internal gate)...

I didn't read any that refuted this statement so I'm assuming that it's correct, right? I'd like to see how it responds with the flapper welded and an external wastegate and O2 dump set up.

Only half the 68hta flows like a decent 50-trim. It spools so fast because the turbine is so small. 1) Most of us getting 50-trim sized turbos want more than 400-450whp when cranking the boost past 25PSI.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the OP state that he made 420whp @ 27PSI?

I am BIG into sleepers, so for me. It doesn't get much better than a 47lb/min compressor in a stock housing. So imho, this is a knock out deal for a turbo. No fabbing, no sillyness. Bolts on. And it looks stock, good for the DD when I have to pass smog. AND it would haul ass. Do doubt, but you have to admit. It's a pretty sick turbo for the price. But for a stock looking go fast bolt on I think it is a pretty good setup for the DD cars that need to sneek past the smog nazi. It gave me wood for a turbo that small to throw down 420 hp. Come on man, admit it, you got wood too. I was excited about something that just fits. No special adapters. No special downpipe. I just dig the idea that it just fits. I did forget the boost was at 27-23 PSI.

Very well said.

Some of you might want to look into TD05 20Gs. Sleeper, power, cheaper. I still feel the best bang for the buck OEM sleeper is the Bastard 18G and the TD05 20G. The 68HTA is an awesome turbo. I personally just don't see the benefit of it.

The TD05H 20G flows 44-lbs/min, right?

 

[dsm-onster]

. . . .

Doing this would theoretically result in more whp, right? However, it'll reduce the amount of torque produced, right?


. . . .

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the OP state that he made 420whp @ 27PSI?



. . . .

The TD05H 20G flows 44-lbs/min, right?

The 20g compressor flows 48-49lb/min at 20*C

Yes the OP made 420whp at over 25psi.

No, you will gain torque typically at a higher rpm with a larger better flowing turbine housing. More torque at a higher rpm means more horsepower (horsepower = torque over time). Slower spool reduces torque lower in the rev range. But an increase in torque comes from better total Volumetic Efficiency that the larger turbine housing allows; and is seen when the turbo finally comes into the same boost number. So the torque band shifts to the right--isn't reduced-- and thus peak horsepower goes up.

 

[Boug]

The 20g compressor flows 48-49lb/min at 20*C

Yes the OP made 420whp at over 25psi.

No, you will gain torque typically at a higher rpm with a larger better flowing turbine housing. More torque at a higher rpm means more horsepower (horsepower = torque over time). Slower spool reduces torque lower in the rev range. But an increase in torque comes from better total Volumetic Efficiency that the larger turbine housing allows; and is seen when the turbo finally comes into the same boost number. So the torque band shifts to the right--isn't reduced-- and thus peak horsepower goes up.

Thanks for the feedback, my friend. It does clear a few things up for me. That 20*C here in southern Arizona will be destroyed as it gets hot here and it's very dry. The 425whp is pretty nice and I'll be very interested to see what more can be safely added to make it produce more whp/wtq, if possible. Basically, if I do decide to get a BRAND NEW turbo, I have my choices narrowed down to the 68HTA or the TD06H 20G.

 

[dsm-onster]

Again, why would you try to extract 20g flow from a 16g hotside? The 68hta and the 20g have about the same compressor flow and apparently about the same efficiency. . . The question is why would you go through the trouble of spending so much to get the motor to push that air through the tiny hotside vs. getting a larger turbine wheel and making your dsm life so much easier. It's not worth the money to modify half a 16g at all, unless stock looking is what you want. . . But even then you can stuff a 20g compressor wheel and td06h turbine wheel into a td05h setup and have far more flow at the same boost . . . Makes no sense. At all whatsoever.

 

[Boug]

Again, why would you try to extract 20G flow from a 16G hotside? The 68HTA and the 20G have about the same compressor flow and apparently about the same efficiency. The question is why would you go through the trouble of spending so much to get the motor to push that air through the tiny hotside vs. getting a larger turbine wheel and making your dsm life so much easier. It's not worth the money to modify half a 16G at all, unless stock looking is what you want. But even then you can stuff a 20G compressor wheel and TD06H turbine wheel into a TD05H setup and have far more flow at the same boost. Makes no sense at all whatsoever.

You really aren't a fan of the 68HTA, right? So the bottom line based on what you're saying is that both turbos are relatively the same, correct? By a larger turbine wheel, are you recommending that I step up to a slightly larger turbo (i.e. - FP Green)? When you say modify "half" a 16G, you're talking from the aspect of FP creating the 68HTA as a type of hybrid, right?

 

[dsm-onster]

The 68 hta is a hybrid an hta/16g hybrid.

 

[pboglio]

The 68hta needs a turbine clip, lets not make a huge deal out of it. Forced Performance can easily offer it for $75 on a new turbo. Many a 20g have run clipped TD05H turbine wheels and that is well known to be a proven combination while still maintaining a great midrange.

 

[dsm-onster]

The huge deal is that the right wheel can be swapped in with no fuss at all. It's a 47lb/min compressor wheel afterall. Clipping? costs_money_yes. Building the right turbo in the first place? Makes_money_yes.

 

[danl]

Torque was holding well to 7000rpm. Volumetric efficiency was holding well to 7500. My friends TD05H 20g car also holds VE extremely well to 7500. My data shows that the TD05H hot side is a good match to the compressor on a 20g or the 68HTA. We have went 10's and 128mph on TD05H hot sides in 2950 pound cars.

 

[dsm-onster]

AH! yes you said the torque stayed up there even though the boost was down. I see that now.

You said this was comparable to pte bolton 50-trim. Of which the gains with improving the hotside have been proven to be substantial. I've run a td05h 18g and it fell off up top like my evo3 16g, though the 18g has better high boost efficiency and little more flow. Fp2x cams, same manifolds, 2.0l. I don't doubt one can make 460+whp with a td05h 7cm^2 turbine, larger compressor, and ethanol. Guys have done this with the evo3 16g and ethanol.

 

[Force Fed 4g63]

Very respectable numbers, nice!

 

[danl]

Made some passes today. Softened up the tune by 1 deg at all rpm's above 10psi boost so that the motor would last. Made 20+ passes. Ran consistent 11.7-11.8 at 124mph. Track temps were about 95 deg, I'd have to check the logs but I'm betting air into the turbo was 100+ degrees. Boost was 24psi.

By comparison I went 11.56 at 127 at norwalk in 2006 with the PTE 50 trim in similar weather. The difference is that now I have a cage and a bunch of safety work and the car is about 100-150 lbs heavier. With some more seat time and tuning time it will run just like the old turbo but in a much more compact, reliable, better fitting, and convenient package.

 

[TSimage]

If those times were on pump that's pretty good!

If not, it has a lot more in it then.

 

[danl]

It is E85. I know it has more in it but nobody is posting any information on it, thus my post. It seems to move a couple lbs/min more air than my friends sister TD05H 20g awd car (mine is fwd). Its about what you would expect, nothing more/nothing less.

 

[project98dsm]

I may have overlooked this one subject while reading this thread so forgive me, but are you running the internal wastegate? Sorry I know this thread is pretty old.

 

[danl]

Stock internal wastegate but I put a larger flapper on to run lower boost in first gear (because I am FWD). The wastegate may be blowing open with the larger flapper in the higher RPM range. Even with only 20-22psi up top it went 124mph in 90 deg F heat with high humidity.

 

[Boug]

The more I read about the 68HTA, it shows more and more impressive to me.

 

[project98dsm]

Yea I agree...I think I'm becoming more and more partial to this turbo. I'm liking the numbers I'm seeing on both pump and e85. I'm probably going to order one in the next couple of weeks, though I'm trying to decide if I want to take the ported option or not. I guess we'll see.

 

[Boug]

Yea I agree...I think I'm becoming more and more partial to this turbo. I'm liking the numbers I'm seeing on both pump and e85. I'm probably going to order one in the next couple of weeks, though I'm trying to decide if I want to take the ported option or not. I guess we'll see.

I used to have an EVO and pretty involved in the community. Now that I've moved to the DSM scene, this turbo reminds me of the BBK Full that CBRD produced. The turbo (rated at 51-lbs/min) was simply outstanding on pump and E85 and its transient response was no joke. The 68HTA fits my cup of tea better than what I'm seeing as I spend nearly 100% of my time on the city streets here in southern Arizona where short sprints are the norm. If I go to the drag strip (maybe once a month), this turbo should be able to hold its own on E85 against just about anything.

 

[pboglio]

I'd say its closer to the FP White, same compressor wheel, rotation reversed.

 

[Boug]

I'd say its closer to the FP White, same compressor wheel, rotation reversed.

I see. Either way, my wife just told me that she is going to help me to get my car built. Needless to say, I'm very happy about that. I really love the fact that you can make very nice power out of a DSM that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. For my EVO, I always hated spending money on it as the parts were always very expensive. For example, I was involved in the development of what I named the Mona Lisa exhaust manifold for the EVO 8/9 and that joker was $650 before we made it available to the EVO community. I bought an EVO3 exhaust manifold for my 1G for $110 shipped. Needless to say, this is what economics should be like. I'm going to show my wife what's up with this turbo as she's like my Comptroller and CEO of the household. I'm not trying to mini-jack the thread, but I was wondering what is a brief summary as to why the 68HTA is better than the old 20G.

 

[pboglio]

Better is a relative term. The 20g compressor wheel flows 49 lb/min, the 68HTA around 47 lb/min. Advantage is its several hundred dollars cheaper than the equivalent 20g, and the internal gate helps as well. Spool is supposedly better, but retaining an unclipped TD05H turbine wheel is helping out alot here in that respect. Pros and cons.

 

[Boug]

Better is a relative term. The 20g compressor wheel flows 49 lb/min, the 68HTA around 47 lb/min. Advantage is its several hundred dollars cheaper than the equivalent 20g, and the internal gate helps as well. Spool is supposedly better, but retaining an unclipped TD05H turbine wheel is helping out alot here in that respect. Pros and cons.

I see. Thank you very much.

 

[danl]

My has a TD05H 20g. That turbo is making a little bit more power than my 68HTA. However his 20g setup requires an external gate, an exhaust manifold set up for the external, and modified LICP. The 68HTA will just bolt right on with almost 20g like performance assuming equal supporting mods. In my opinion, the 68HTA or the 20G is an excellent match for a stock motor, which both my friend and I run. One has slightly more top end (20g) and one spools slightly quicker (68HTA).