first engine build would like some advice/help

[charleso89]

hi im building a 4g63t. Im currently looking into a decent turbo kit on ebay. And still finishing the engine itself. But i need help i dont know what size fuel injectors ill need. Or if ill need a better fuel pump. Also need to buy engine mounts hopefully for a semi cheep price. But not sure where to find them. I will add alot more info and pics after i can get my car here and parts out of storage thanks for the help. My budget is limited so i cant dump alot of money out of no where but will save up almost any amount. i was thinking of getting a ebay kit wich has every turbo part house clamp and everything id need. And then upgrade to a better name brand turbo after brake in period of motor. same with the bov and turbo timer. since like i said do have a limited amount of money and it would have everything

 

[charleso89]

Is there even any reason to get the install kit. From my understanding i just want the oil lines and coolant lines

 

[92AWDHX40]

Get that kit while you can i called they have a few left, you can get your evo for 549 at extreme psi shipped and fp, and get the manifold either used for around 200. or 275 new. A wally 190 will do fine so you dont have to get a afpr.

 

[charleso89]

I have a turbo and manifold package im lookin into as listed. I am wondering if it would be cheeper to just buy the lines i need or not im getting everything listed and marked down before i start buying

 

[Rideit636]

Good idea going with ECMlink. I was under the impression that it was out of your budget. And the SAFC may be "old junky tech" but it has done, and will do what you need it to do for the injector sizes that you would be looking at running. And they can be had for next to nothing these days.

 

[charleso89]

Good idea going with ECMlink. I was under the impression that it was out of your budget. And the SAFC may be "old junky tech" but it has done, and will do what you need it to do for the injector sizes that you would be looking at running. And they can be had for next to nothing these days.

Right now it is out of my budget range still goin to find out what ecu i have. I may end up using stock injectors and only 14 pounds of boost till i can afford to upgrade But still tossing the idea around

 

[RipperXX]

Get that kit while you can i called they have a few left, you can get your evo for 549 at extreme psi shipped and fp, and get the manifold either used for around 200. or 275 new. A wally 190 will do fine so you dont have to get a afpr.

I'd say get a AFPR, and an EVO III exhaust manifold. They can be hand new for $175, that extra money saved over the FP unit could buy you a AFPR so you KNOW your base fuel pressure is set correctly and not have any over-run issues.

Besides the FP unit doesn't flow THAT much better than an Evo III, and the OP doesn't appear to be seeking to milk out every last drop of power so, just the route i'd recommend.

 

[charleso89]

I'd say get a AFPR, and an EVO III exhaust manifold. They can be hand new for $175, that extra money saved over the FP unit could buy you a AFPR so you KNOW your base fuel pressure is set correctly and not have any over-run issues.

Besides the FP unit doesn't flow THAT much better than an Evo III, and the OP doesn't appear to be seeking to milk out every last drop of power so, just the route i'd recommend.

How much do arfp run i havent seen any for sale on the classifieds, I plan to get the evo 3 16g with fp race mani

 

[ed1380]

Afpr are 100-150 on the classifieds. Just search fpr or fuel pressure regulator. Also try aeromotive and fuel lab for key words

 

[charleso89]

Afpr are 100-150 on the classifieds. Just search fpr or fuel pressure regulator. Also try aeromotive and fuel lab for key words

O ok thanks. Some one had told me i need a oil feed restrictor but i havent seen anyone talk about it in posts , and its not in any kit ive come acrossed. Not sure if that is a must have or not.

 

[Tyeler18]

Honestly I'd just go on the classifieds and post a WTB for all the oil/coolant lines for a 14b/16g, you should be able to get the stock lines off a 1g for $20-30 for all of them. That will be a bolt in affair where you won't need to worry about modifying anything.

The stock 2g lines will work, but they're junk really. Considering you don't have any lines right now I'd just jump on the 1g ones.

 

[charleso89]

I completly forgot i already found coolant lines this would work right? I ask since its always better to ask and know then guess EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts . I am pretty sure they will just wanting to make sure.

Honestly I'd just go on the classifieds and post a WTB for all the oil/coolant lines for a 14b/16g, you should be able to get the stock lines off a 1g for $20-30 for all of them. That will be a bolt in affair where you won't need to worry about modifying anything.

The stock 2g lines will work, but they're junk really. Considering you don't have any lines right now I'd just jump on the 1g ones.

O ok and once again thank you. You have been a big help. But since i posted and asked and no one actualy answered my qs i wont need to get a 16g install kit if i get the oil lines right? Hopefully with my kid getting better i will be able to get back to my project soon

 

[Tyeler18]

Those coolant lines are for the radiator, you need ones for the turbo as well.

Yea your best bet is to just post an ad literally saying "I'm looking for the stock 1g oil/coolant lines for a 14b with all the banjo fittings"

I'm currently looking for the same as I let a friend borrow my turbo/lines and he decided to sell it. I'll see if I can pull up one picture to show everything you need for lines.

 

[charleso89]

Those coolant lines are for the radiator, you need ones for the turbo as well.

Yea your best bet is to just post an ad literally saying "I'm looking for the stock 1g oil/coolant lines for a 14b with all the banjo fittings"

I'm currently looking for the same as I let a friend borrow my turbo/lines and he decided to sell it. I'll see if I can pull up one picture to show everything you need for lines.

Ok thanks man. And sorry just havent found alot of posts goin into depth on what people did with there 16g and all. As soon as my son is better i am goin to be posting up pictures of my ecu apart to see if later when i upgrade it and get more money in the good haha

Those coolant lines are for the radiator, you need ones for the turbo as well.

Yea your best bet is to just post an ad literally saying "I'm looking for the stock 1g oil/coolant lines for a 14b with all the banjo fittings"

I'm currently looking for the same as I let a friend borrow my turbo/lines and he decided to sell it. I'll see if I can pull up one picture to show everything you need for lines.

Ps sorry bout the friend who sold your stuff thats no good

 

[Tyeler18]

No real need for pics, you can look for yourself.

Look at the eprom in the first post of this thread. In the bottom right hand corner see that little black chip with the white sticker on it? It says "EB23D" if you have that chip on your ecu (part numbers will vary) then you have an eprom. If there's no black chip in the corner of your ecu like that then you have a non eprom.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/norcal-region-dsm/400580-fs-2g-ecus-1-eprom-2-non-eprom.html

 

[charleso89]

Thanks yea no need for pics now.

 

[johnovision27]

I've done 3 now and take this advice.
BUDGET BUDGET BUDGET!!!!!!!
Don't even start until you have a game plan on where your getting your parts from, and how much they'll cost. You get what you pay for. You can get a ton of cheat ebay shiat, or get a couple of solid, reliable parts that will outlive your car.

Gauge your parts based on your goals. You don't need to go all out off the bat, but I'd recommend putting a little more emphasis on internals as you're already going to have the engine out of the car. A turbo is easier to upgrade then piston rods or a clutch.

What ever you're going to use to tune it, make sure you have a basic understanding of how it works and how to tune with it. You should already have a near perfect understanding of how to install it, or else you're going to hit some serious bumps in the road. I'd recommend dsmlink if you can afford it, but an SAFC2 is easy to use/install.
Be sure to put cash aside for a wideband as you'll need that to tune with any setup.

VRSF is a sexy looking intercooler and comes with pretty much everything you'll need. I can't speak for the PR setup, but I know a lot of DSMers on here will swear by it.

As for ebay, you can't just go in there blind and say "BOOYAH! cheap parts!!!" You can find some very quality parts at good prices on there (brand names), but on the other hand you can get screwed by a picture of some fancy garbage. Got my whole Aeromotive setup for $150 shipped.

Whoops... missed the other 3 pages of posts... sorry if I repeated a bunch of crap.

And The motoman's breakin method works great. I've used it on 3 cars and no problems to date.

 

[charleso89]

I've done 3 now and take this advice.
BUDGET BUDGET BUDGET!!!!!!!
Don't even start until you have a game plan on where your getting your parts from, and how much they'll cost. You get what you pay for. You can get a ton of cheat ebay shiat, or get a couple of solid, reliable parts that will outlive your car.

Gauge your parts based on your goals. You don't need to go all out off the bat, but I'd recommend putting a little more emphasis on internals as you're already going to have the engine out of the car. A turbo is easier to upgrade then piston rods or a clutch.

What ever you're going to use to tune it, make sure you have a basic understanding of how it works and how to tune with it. You should already have a near perfect understanding of how to install it, or else you're going to hit some serious bumps in the road. I'd recommend dsmlink if you can afford it, but an SAFC2 is easy to use/install.
Be sure to put cash aside for a wideband as you'll need that to tune with any setup.

VRSF is a sexy looking intercooler and comes with pretty much everything you'll need. I can't speak for the PR setup, but I know a lot of DSMers on here will swear by it.

As for ebay, you can't just go in there blind and say "BOOYAH! cheap parts!!!" You can find some very quality parts at good prices on there (brand names), but on the other hand you can get screwed by a picture of some fancy garbage. Got my whole Aeromotive setup for $150 shipped.

Whoops... missed the other 3 pages of posts... sorry if I repeated a bunch of crap.

And The motoman's breakin method works great. I've used it on 3 cars and no problems to date.

it is all good. Thats also why im making a list of all parts i know i need where i can find them new for the best price if cant find them used when i go to buy. The only things i may look on ebay for are the oil/coolant lines so i dont have to buy the install kit. I am not goin to upgrade to any tunning device right now for i can run stock injectors with out tunning on 10-15 pounds of boost then when i get a lil more money i will upgrade it and the injectors. Im still researching if i need to upgrade my fuel pump and regulator at all if i dont upgrade my fuel injectors. And i was wondering about that break in method

And i believe my engine is solid but what would be some key things to think about? Since i have seen a few posts where people have ruined there engine but have not said what made there engine go

 

[ed1380]

get some plastigage at autozone or any parts store. get the green one and check your main and rod clearances. it's only $2

if you're on the high side then I recommend a balance shaft delete and blocking the bearings.
if you're on the tight side, then you can take the belt off and let the shaft stay in there.

also depends on what oil you'll be using

 

[charleso89]

Ok. And with a 16g turbo theres no need to upgrade cam shafts or gears right?

The oil wont be sythentic at first if i fallow motomans break in method

 

[ed1380]

no need.

I meant what oil weight.

higher weight means higher oil pressure.
tighter main rod tolerances also mean higher oil pressure.

 

[charleso89]

There is absolutely no need for anything over stock boost when breaking in a new motor, so why not use a 14b? If you get a 16g is not straight bolt on for 2g's. You'l have to spend even more cash on an install kit. Not to mention that 16g won't take you any farther than a 14b without bigger injectors. As for Ebay intercoolers, I've never seen a problem with them below 500HP. As for Ebay BOV, you'll leak more air than your turbo can put out. Don't waste your time with things like turbo timers either, put that cash towards something useful.

BTW, IMO Link is absolutely not needed for anything below 750cc injectors, just add boost until your AFR's are good. You do have a Wideband o2, right?

No right now i believe i dont have a wideband

no need.

I meant what oil weight.

higher weight means higher oil pressure.
tighter main rod tolerances also mean higher oil pressure.

thought i would run the stock weight. What weight do you recomend

A bit of new information is due to research i do know my ending i have for my 95 eclipse gst is a eagle talon 16v dohc 2000, but from my research so far i do believe it is 100 percent compatible with my car. If i am wrong please dont bite your tounge tell me. Only reason i wasnt sure was my friend said he pulled it out of a turbo eclipse. Altho since me and him arnt talking anymore i need to double check it is the right year

 

[RipperXX]

^ Depends on how tightly or lose your building the engine. That and the kind of power your going to be making.

For instance on a tightly built (for longevity) DD engine with a small sized turbo making around 300whp. I would stick with 10w-30 unless your in an area with real hot summers, then in the summer maybe consider a 15weight oil. AMSOil is some of the best shit ever btw. not A M S, ams In colder climates / in the winter, run 10w-30. Unless your in an area that gets extreme cold temps, then look at a thiner oil. IMHO until your making over 400whp you don't NEED a thicker oil than 10w-30. But like I said it also depends on how tight or lose you build the engine, a lose or old worn out engine could do with a thicker oil as well esp. in hot climates. Also if your going to be beating on it hard, look for an oil (in the appropreate weight) that has a high zinc content.


Also im only going to say this once, it's clear to most EVERYONE here, that your knowladge of these cars is seriously lacking. And if it's one thing the 4G63 while strong as shit as it is will not tolerate, is mistakes. Small mistakes on these things lead to major failures. I HIGHLY recommend you do a LOT more research before you try to build the engine, or mod it in any real way.

 

[charleso89]

^ Depends on how tightly or lose your building the engine. That and the kind of power your going to be making.

For instance on a tightly built (for longevity) DD engine with a small sized turbo making around 300whp. I would stick with 10w-30 unless your in an area with real hot summers, then in the summer maybe consider a 15weight oil. AMSOil is some of the best shit ever btw. not A M S, ams In colder climates / in the winter, run 10w-30. Unless your in an area that gets extreme cold temps, then look at a thiner oil. IMHO until your making over 400whp you don't NEED a thicker oil than 10w-30. But like I said it also depends on how tight or lose you build the engine, a lose or old worn out engine could do with a thicker oil as well esp. in hot climates. Also if your going to be beating on it hard, look for an oil (in the appropreate weight) that has a high zinc content.


Also im only going to say this once, it's clear to most EVERYONE here, that your knowladge of these cars is seriously lacking. And if it's one thing the 4G63 while strong as shit as it is will not tolerate, is mistakes. Small mistakes on these things lead to major failures. I HIGHLY recommend you do a LOT more research before you try to build the engine, or mod it in any real way.

Yes my knoledge is lacking on these cars and it is obvious, that is why im constantly lookin things up and asking so many questions. But we all have to start some where do we not. And some pick up on it quicker then others.

And i live someplace that gets above 100 alot and in winter gets really cold to 0 and below somtimes and never knew anyone to change oil compaired to that but is a good idea

 

[RipperXX]

Don't think were looking down on you or anything. It's not that, people are just concerned that you might bite off a bit much this early on. Cause like I said earlier, the 4G63 while an AWESOME engine that can take more abuse then say a Ford 5.0 windsor. It is not very tolerant of mistakes, we just don't want to see you make any, Thats all.

 

[charleso89]

Don't think were looking down on you or anything. It's not that, people are just concerned that you might bite off a bit much this early on. Cause like I said earlier, the 4G63 while an AWESOME engine that can take more abuse then say a Ford 5.0 windsor. It is not very tolerant of mistakes, we just don't want to see you make any, Thats all.

I understand that. And i guess after enough people say it it gets kind of old. I mean that is why i joined this site to learn more about these cars and all. So i opolligize if i came off rude. I have spent the last 2 hours while my women was asleep and kids were behaving doing more research. Figured out i have no need to upgrade the inside of my engine. Altho the injectors at 450cc are barely able to handle 300 hp if that so i do not know if what i was told that if i run the evo3 16g turbo at 10 or 15 psi i would be fine. Also that there is no really break in for the turbo. Pluss are several different opinions on breaking in engine. I am sorry if i ask to many questions but i cant seem to find everything i am looking for on the posts and figure better to ask then keep quiet

I also am still a little confused about the exhaust down pipe and o2 housing. is it better to run a 3" exhaust with a 2.5 down pipe flanged out to a 3" or is it better to port out the o2 housing to a 2.5 and run a 3 inch down pipe or just eliminate the o2