first engine build would like some advice/help

[charleso89]

hi im building a 4g63t. Im currently looking into a decent turbo kit on ebay. And still finishing the engine itself. But i need help i dont know what size fuel injectors ill need. Or if ill need a better fuel pump. Also need to buy engine mounts hopefully for a semi cheep price. But not sure where to find them. I will add alot more info and pics after i can get my car here and parts out of storage thanks for the help. My budget is limited so i cant dump alot of money out of no where but will save up almost any amount. i was thinking of getting a ebay kit wich has every turbo part house clamp and everything id need. And then upgrade to a better name brand turbo after brake in period of motor. same with the bov and turbo timer. since like i said do have a limited amount of money and it would have everything

 

[delta448]

And would you happen to know a site to order the vrfm or the pr fmic

They're both supporting vendors of this site.

VR Speed Factory Intercoolers

Punishment Racing Intercoolers

Since i havent seen much on this does, for example a megan racing down pipe conect to a stock manifold? or even a evo manifold

A downpipe connects to the O2 sensor housing, which connects to the turbine outlet of your turbocharger.

I'm really trying to remain polite here, but I'm probably not going to keep spoon feeding you. I'm about done with this thread. You need to do some searching and reading on your own. Educate yourself and then make your own decisions. Don't rely on the rest of us to tell you what you want.

 

[Rideit636]

The SAFC is made by Apex'i. It modifies how much airflow your MAF sees. It is a simple means of tuning slightly the slightly larger injectors. A little reading will go a long way in that department. I do not dislike the HKS, you had just mentioned it twice, so it seemed you had your mind set. Where as if you could be a little more open minded on brands, you could probably get a much better deal.

 

[charleso89]

The SAFC is made by Apex'i. It modifies how much airflow your MAF sees. It is a simple means of tuning slightly the slightly larger injectors. A little reading will go a long way in that department. I do not dislike the HKS, you had just mentioned it twice, so it seemed you had your mind set. Where as if you could be a little more open minded on brands, you could probably get a much better deal.

O ok, and yea i think im goin to skip that and get the ecm linc and 650cc injectors, and a fuel rail since i dont have one

 

[Tyeler18]

O ok, and yea i think im goin to skip that and get the ecm linc and 650cc injectors, and a fuel rail since i dont have one

There's ecmlink for a 2g with an eprom ecu (the new ecu you more than likely need) for $450 on the classifieds here. It's v3 full (newest/best), this will normally run upwards of $600+ so I'd jump on that if you can. SAFC is old junky tech, good call on passing it.

For injectors if you ever plan on going bigger (or going e85 route) I'd suggest going as big as you can afford NOW. If you want to go e85 on a 16g (highly recommended by myself) you'll want minimum of 1000cc injectors.

For the fuel rail just go stock, no use in spending money on any aftermarket since the stock fuel rail flows better than 98% of what dsmers will ever need.

Oh and if you want bigger injectors I do have a set of FIC 1050cc's for sale. PM me if you're interested.

Also to find you're parts go to the supporting vendors section of the forum. They'll have anything you need and like mentioned Extremepsi, STM, etc are all great vendors.

 

[charleso89]

There's ecmlink for a 2g with an eprom ecu (the new ecu you more than likely need) for $450 on the classifieds here. It's v3 full (newest/best), this will normally run upwards of $600+ so I'd jump on that if you can. SAFC is old junky tech, good call on passing it.

For injectors if you ever plan on going bigger (or going e85 route) I'd suggest going as big as you can afford NOW. If you want to go e85 on a 16g (highly recommended by myself) you'll want minimum of 1000cc injectors.

For the fuel rail just go stock, no use in spending money on any aftermarket since the stock fuel rail flows better than 98% of what dsmers will ever need.

Oh and if you want bigger injectors I do have a set of FIC 1050cc's for sale. PM me if you're interested.

Also to find you're parts go to the supporting vendors section of the forum. They'll have anything you need and like mentioned Extremepsi, STM, etc are all great vendors.

Yea i know from all the research i been doing on tunning that i want the new v3. Unfortunantly it is all still a little confusing to me. I also am still tryin to figure out the whole gas concept i do plan on running street gas so i can pull up to the local pump here. And since my kids are asleep i finaly have more time for research. So far this is the list of parts im goin to save up and get. The pr fmic for 418, evo 16g turbo, walbro 190plh fuel pump, and im thinking the evo 660cc injectors. for the engine itself im thinking of upgrading the cam shafts and maybe the cam gears still looking into that. but right now trying to figure out this tunning thing, and all parts and what they do and what to buy

 

[Tyeler18]

Yea i know from all the research i been doing on tunning that i want the new v3. Unfortunantly it is all still a little confusing to me. I also am still tryin to figure out the whole gas concept i do plan on running street gas so i can pull up to the local pump here. And since my kids are asleep i finaly have more time for research. So far this is the list of parts im goin to save up and get. The pr fmic for 418, evo 16g turbo, walbro 190plh fuel pump, and im thinking the evo 660cc injectors. for the engine itself im thinking of upgrading the cam shafts and maybe the cam gears still looking into that. but right now trying to figure out this tunning thing, and all parts and what they do and what to buy

Just realized you are a 95, I for some reason thought you had a 96, good news for you is that theres a good chance you have an eprom ecu (basically an ecu that allows the use of ecmlink, a non eprom right now will not). If you can pull your ecu, take a picture of the inside of it (just take the casing off) and post it up on here. We can tell you if it's an eprom or not. Go to ecmtuning.com and start watching their videos and reading their "wiki" site. It'll tell you everything you need to know.

If your budget allows go with the 255lph walbro and an aeromotive (my choice)/fuel lab/aem fuel pressure regulator, it'll be worth it in the long run.

Evo injectors are 560s not 660's, but not a bad starting choice as they are easy to find, cheap, and easy to sell.

If you'd like a complete fuel system setup PM me, like I said before I have FIC 1050cc injectors, and I also have an aeromotive fuel pressure regulator with 2g install kit (brand new) and a slightly used walbro 255hp fuel pump (better than a regular used 255) with a brand new fuel pump install kit. PM me and we can discuss that if you're interested as I'll let it go for a decent price as a bundle. It'd be a plug and play kit for you other than the injectors.

 

[charleso89]

I can try and pull the ecu apart today and post some pictures. It would be nice to save a little bit of money if i dont have to fully replace it

 

[90YellowTSI]

I would vote go stock all the way. 14b, 450 injectors, maybe 3 inch exhaust. get some miles on it. find out how they opperate, and then start modding it.

 

[WES_393]

There is absolutely no need for anything over stock boost when breaking in a new motor, so why not use a 14b? If you get a 16g is not straight bolt on for 2g's. You'l have to spend even more cash on an install kit. Not to mention that 16g won't take you any farther than a 14b without bigger injectors. As for Ebay intercoolers, I've never seen a problem with them below 500HP. As for Ebay BOV, you'll leak more air than your turbo can put out. Don't waste your time with things like turbo timers either, put that cash towards something useful.

BTW, IMO Link is absolutely not needed for anything below 750cc injectors, just add boost until your AFR's are good. You do have a Wideband o2, right?

 

[DSMTyson]

I was thinking about bringing it to a shop to have it tuned. Since i am a newby to dsm. would there be a better or smarter route then taking it to a shop.

What would be better getting a plain intercooler kit. and finding a turbo or the turbo kit. I have been doin a lot of research and dont fully know what all i would need to get with just haveing a intercooler kit.

I also know alot of people are segesting setting it to the side but my plans are to do the engine and baby it while i break it in. So i dont ruin a fresh rebuild . I do plan on rebuilding the transmision and researchin more into it to upgrades for the transmision as well.

I am open to answer any questions that you guys want to know. my main goal right now is to get it runing with better then just stock parts. I will be back on in a while as i need to go and do some things so will re answer and read all when i get back

Wait wait wait. You have no idea what you are doing. STOP. Not trying to be a dick.

1. Learn to tune it yourself with ECMLink V3 Lite. Its not hard, just read and watch the Instructional demo videos on their site to get everything dialed in.

2. The best thing to do would be to get an intercooler kit for our DSMs that is direct install and bolt on. I recommend the punishment racing FMIC kit. Its extremely straight forward. Most ebay intercoolers hardly do any better than our stock side mount intercoolers and some don't fit very well. Ebay products are mostly hit or miss. Usually miss.

3. If you have to have it. Buy a 16g of some sort from the classifieds. Actually, I have a friend that gives pretty good deals on newly rebuilt 16g's and if you PM me i could get you in contact with him. You will need the install kit for it. You can buy the 16g install kit at extremepsi.com.

4. You dont need a turbo timer. A turbo timer only comes in handy if you are using an oil cooled ONLY turbo. Our mitsubish turbos are oil and coolant cooled, so we really don't have to wait for them to cool unless you've been racing. In which case, you can just sit in the car and idle for about a minute or so afterwards

5. The classifieds is your best friend. If you don't NEED to buy new, DON'T.

Most importantly. When you rebuild an engine, you DO NOT baby it. If you do, you will have low and uneven compression numbers and you will have to re-ring the pistons.

Follow these instructions when you start breaking in the engine.
Break In Secrets--How To Break In New Motorcycle and Car Engines For More Power

I would vote go stock all the way. 14b, 450 injectors, maybe 3 inch exhaust. get some miles on it. find out how they opperate, and then start modding it.

Agree'd. You can make 300hp on a 14b easily. Especialy on a 2G. (8.5:1 compression)

 

[charleso89]

Wait wait wait. You have no idea what you are doing. STOP. Not trying to be a dick.

1. Learn to tune it yourself with ECMLink V3 Lite. Its not hard, just read and watch the Instructional demo videos on their site to get everything dialed in.

2. The best thing to do would be to get an intercooler kit for our DSMs that is direct install and bolt on. I recommend the punishment racing FMIC kit. Its extremely straight forward. Most ebay intercoolers hardly do any better than our stock side mount intercoolers and some don't fit very well. Ebay products are mostly hit or miss. Usually miss.

3. If you have to have it. Buy a 16g of some sort from the classifieds. Actually, I have a friend that gives pretty good deals on newly rebuilt 16g's and if you PM me i could get you in contact with him. You will need the install kit for it. You can buy the 16g install kit at extremepsi.com.

4. You dont need a turbo timer. A turbo timer only comes in handy if you are using an oil cooled ONLY turbo. Our mitsubish turbos are oil and coolant cooled, so we really don't have to wait for them to cool unless you've been racing. In which case, you can just sit in the car and idle for about a minute or so afterwards

5. The classifieds is your best friend. If you don't NEED to buy new, DON'T.

Most importantly. When you rebuild an engine, you DO NOT baby it. If you do, you will have low and uneven compression numbers and you will have to re-ring the pistons.

Follow these instructions when you start breaking in the engine.
Break In Secrets--How To Break In New Motorcycle and Car Engines For More Power



Agree'd. You can make 300hp on a 14b easily. Especialy on a 2G. (8.5:1 compression)

Thank you for the link. But why would i need a 16g install kit all it is, is a j pipe to the smic. and the pr fmic how a option standard or a j pipe

 

[DSMTyson]

Thank you for the link. But why would i need a 16g install kit all it is, is a j pipe to the smic. and the pr fmic how a option standard or a j pipe

Forced Performance Turbochargers: FP 16G Install Kit for 2G DSM

The stock T25 doesn't have the same "hardware"(^^^^) as the 14b and 16gs.

 

[charleso89]

Yea i know that thats why i wont order the kit that says stock t25 and id order the j pipe one. I dont have a t25 set up. Im pretty sure i dont need that kit from what i have checked into. With the pr fmic and the standard j pipe style fitting. I could be wrong but so far it seems like the adapter kit u showed has no puprose with that

 

[jimbob_843]

Buy stock (cheap and used) parts. Dont jump straight to the big boy high performance stuff until you get everything in working order. Maybe a 16g turbo and logger, wideband, boost controller. Stick with the sidemount for now, drive it, love it, and then save and upgrade from there. You are new to dsm and you dont understand how much money big performance is going to cost you.

 

[charleso89]

I dont plan to buy stock then upgrade later. I have been doing alot of research and understand more power more money. Im not going to push the 16g to the max i know the engine i have will fully handle it. And with the right injectors fuel pump o2 and manifold with the tuning it will be just fine. While i apriciate the advice i have no need or desire to put money into stock just to upgrade and change it out in less then a year.

 

[DSMTyson]

Oh, i didn't realize you had none of the t25 stuff. Well, scratch that .

 

[charleso89]

Oh, i didn't realize you had none of the t25 stuff. Well, scratch that .

Haha it is ok, i just am finally figureing things out. And realizing what i want, but i am correct about my theory with the pr fmic right i wont need a installing kit. I havent found any posts to back up my theory yet which is why i ask.

 

[DaRKSiDeGSX]

The 14 b is better then the 16g to u huh? And i have no injectors or anything so instead of buying some and replacing them later i want to just do it right the first time

14b was free for me, so It was the best choice. haha However the cost is not as important or you are only looking at a small difference in cost the 16g is a much better choice. The 14b and 16g are similar in size and position of outlet etc.

With no injectors I see your position, if you really need to upgrade now instead of replacing 450's for cheap, you are going to need a tuning device etc..

 

[charleso89]

14b was free for me, so It was the best choice. haha However the cost is not as important or you are only looking at a small difference in cost the 16g is a much better choice. The 14b and 16g are similar in size and position of outlet etc.

With no injectors I see your position, if you really need to upgrade now instead of replacing 450's for cheap, you are going to need a tuning device etc..

Yea hopefully here soon ill be able to pull my ecu take it apart and put some pictures up so i know if i need to get a new ecu or just the v3 upgrade. Im trying to find more posts about tunning upgradeding, and setting up turbo. Just am not typing in the right words i guess. But still goin at it

 

[Tyeler18]

Haha it is ok, i just am finally figureing things out. And realizing what i want, but i am correct about my theory with the pr fmic right i wont need a installing kit. I havent found any posts to back up my theory yet which is why i ask.

You're confusing the PR install kit with a mitsubishi turbo install kit. You WILL need a 14b/16g install kit for the TURBO if you go with one of those turbos. You will also need the 14b/16g install kit for the PR intercooler if you go that route as well. The turbo kit is for the oil lines/coolant lines, the intercooler kit is for the J-pipe you'll use.

 

[charleso89]

You're confusing the PR install kit with a mitsubishi turbo install kit. You WILL need a 14b/16g install kit for the TURBO if you go with one of those turbos. You will also need the 14b/16g install kit for the PR intercooler if you go that route as well. The turbo kit is for the oil lines/coolant lines, the intercooler kit is for the J-pipe you'll use.

Except so faar every install kit is for the smic. Are they the same kit to the fmic? This is why i havent bought anything and still am trying to find more posts to read and go through. Altho the link finnaly worked and i see it isnt the smic kit one.

You're confusing the PR install kit with a mitsubishi turbo install kit. You WILL need a 14b/16g install kit for the TURBO if you go with one of those turbos. You will also need the 14b/16g install kit for the PR intercooler if you go that route as well. The turbo kit is for the oil lines/coolant lines, the intercooler kit is for the J-pipe you'll use.

From my understanding i need the j pipe style pr fmic and the turbo kit.

 

[Tyeler18]

Except so faar every install kit is for the smic. Are they the same kit to the fmic? This is why i havent bought anything and still am trying to find more posts to read and go through. Altho the link finnaly worked and i see it isnt the smic kit one.


From my understanding i need the j pipe style pr fmic and the turbo kit.

The install kit comes with the FMIC, just select the 14/16g style j-pipe, then go to extremepsi or wherever and get the 14b/16g TURBO install kit.

 

[charleso89]

The install kit comes with the FMIC, just select the 14/16g style j-pipe, then go to extremepsi or wherever and get the 14b/16g TURBO install kit.

Will do. Now im looking uo how to install and what all i am goin to need for sure since i have no turbo parts found 16G install in a 2G. That looks like it has alot of info on how to install

I have yet to find any one saying anything if a ported 02 housing is good or not or if its better not ported

So far these are the parts i have lined up to buy when i have money. Forced Performance Turbochargers: Evo III 16g Turbocharger & FP Race Manifold Package Sale,

Punishment Racing FMIC Kit: 95-99 Eclipse/Talon

Still looking into a good 16 g install kit.
Any thoughts on what i have planed so far let me know

Then step away from the car, read up on all the good information you can find about turbo systems, and what parts do what.

You can easily build a quality setup for a 4g63 without spending 2k.

Used 1g BOV - 20-35$
14B or 16g Turbo Less than 300$
VRSF FMIC, 305$
Used 2g manifold 40-70$
Used 2g o2 housing 10-30$

I would recommend find some stock 450cc injectors.

Can i run stock injectors and not worry about upgrading to bigger injectors and a tunning device for now?

 

[charleso89]

Im not finding any 16g install kit with oil lines and coolant lines. If any one knows of a site that has the install kit with both of them would be much appriciated i have looked through all the venders i believe would have it

 

[ed1380]

t25 (stock) oil and water lines fit. try ebay