first engine build would like some advice/help

[charleso89]

hi im building a 4g63t. Im currently looking into a decent turbo kit on ebay. And still finishing the engine itself. But i need help i dont know what size fuel injectors ill need. Or if ill need a better fuel pump. Also need to buy engine mounts hopefully for a semi cheep price. But not sure where to find them. I will add alot more info and pics after i can get my car here and parts out of storage thanks for the help. My budget is limited so i cant dump alot of money out of no where but will save up almost any amount. i was thinking of getting a ebay kit wich has every turbo part house clamp and everything id need. And then upgrade to a better name brand turbo after brake in period of motor. same with the bov and turbo timer. since like i said do have a limited amount of money and it would have everything

 

[Boomdeeze]

Like others have been saying, try to avoid eBay parts especially essential parts.when you can access the classifieds here, you will be surprised on what good deals you can score used. Get your post count up to 30 and go shopping. For intercoolers, I would look into a VRSF($305) or a Punishment Racing(400). Save yourself money and do it right the first time

 

[ed1380]

The t25 is the stock Turbo. For breaking in the motor it'll do good. But for a bolt on Turbo look for a 14b or 16g. Or if you want 500+hp (depending if your internals can handle it) get a holset and a bep housing.

 

[DaRKSiDeGSX]

I don't always jump on the hate band wagon of things sold on e-bay. However, I will say you should go with the 14b it's a stock turbo and the entire setup is likely to be obtainable via a parts car, forum posted part out, or possibly even a local junk yard.

The manifold, o2 sensor housing, exhaust, oil, coolant, and even inlet/outlet are already designed to work with our cars.

The setup will be cost effective while providing plenty of performance until you are more advanced in your DSM ways.

I just finished a 6 bolt swap in my 95 gsx. I will second if you had a parts car you would be in great shape. I am getting a daily dose of unexpected items which needed replacing, or I somehow leaned on it and broke the mount off, or whatever the case may be. In any event the spare parts I find myself running 40 minutes away to pick up from 93eclipsegs....You get the point, parts on hand are greatly appreciated...

 

[charleso89]

Well thank you for the help i have decided im goin to skip the ebay turbo kit. I do not have the faith in it i once did. altho still am goin to get a fmic and do still need help knowing all turbo parts i will need. Since as of now i have none. So all parts listed would be great and all advice is still apriciated. I may use a stock turbo to get it broken in but will upgrade it to a 16G or so afterwords. But i thank you all again for the help so far on this journey of mine. I want to do this right

 

[Boostinsideways]

If you don't have a t-25 now, I would not waste money it.

Just get a 16g and run it at waste gate pressure, 11-12 psi, and you will be fine for break in.

You need :
14b or 16g Turbocharger
2nd Generation DSM Cast Turbo Manifold
2nd Generation DSM Cast O2 Sensor Housing
14b/16g Oil Feed Line
14b/16g Oil Return Line
Oil Feed Restrictor
Coolant Feed Line
Coolant Return Line
Blow-off Valve
Intercooler Kit, or Stock Intercooler and Pipes

 

[ed1380]

For the first part of break in I recommend taking the wastegate arm off. That way youll have only couple pounds of boost.

An issue I have with breaking in on your main Turbo is potentially increased wear on journal bearings. While breaking in, there are lots of small metal particles in the oil. Some probably smaller than the oil filter can stop, and they act like sandpaper on the bearings. That's why its recommended to change oil as soon as 20 miles

 

[charleso89]

If you don't have a t-25 now, I would not waste money it.

Just get a 16g and run it at waste gate pressure, 11-12 psi, and you will be fine for break in.

You need :
14b or 16g Turbocharger
2nd Generation DSM Cast Turbo Manifold
2nd Generation DSM Cast O2 Sensor Housing
14b/16g Oil Feed Line
14b/16g Oil Return Line
Oil Feed Restrictor
Coolant Feed Line
Coolant Return Line
Blow-off Valve
Intercooler Kit, or Stock Intercooler and Pipes

Thank you so much. With a 16g turbo what size injectors would i need and would i need a better fuel pump? And last question bout that would ebay headers work or would i be best not to do that. Since ive only found turbo headers on ebay.

I thank all of you for the help. Now i get to go hunting for all parts turbos and figure out what all i want. Will post more pics of the project and keep asking for info and show prgress for the people who helped and care to see. So thank you all again i know i still need your guys help but have a good idea of what all i need for turbo. If there is any more questions you have or any more advice feel free to post

For the first part of break in I recommend taking the wastegate arm off. That way youll have only couple pounds of boost.

An issue I have with breaking in on your main Turbo is potentially increased wear on journal bearings. While breaking in, there are lots of small metal particles in the oil. Some probably smaller than the oil filter can stop, and they act like sandpaper on the bearings. That's why its recommended to change oil as soon as 20 miles

well would it be cheeper to find a used stock turbo or would it be cheeper and better to just rebuild one? And this is exactly why i know i still need info and advice haha. Thanks so far you have been a big help.

 

[Tyeler18]

For the first part of break in I recommend taking the wastegate arm off. That way youll have only couple pounds of boost.

An issue I have with breaking in on your main Turbo is potentially increased wear on journal bearings. While breaking in, there are lots of small metal particles in the oil. Some probably smaller than the oil filter can stop, and they act like sandpaper on the bearings. That's why its recommended to change oil as soon as 20 miles

Small amounts of boost are needed to break in these engines. Wastegate pressure on a 16g will be fine for break-in.

Thank you so much. With a 16g turbo what size injectors would i need and would i need a better fuel pump? And last question bout that would ebay headers work or would i be best not to do that. Since ive only found turbo headers on ebay.

I thank all of you for the help. Now i get to go hunting for all parts turbos and figure out what all i want. Will post more pics of the project and keep asking for info and show prgress for the people who helped and care to see. So thank you all again i know i still need your guys help but have a good idea of what all i need for turbo. If there is any more questions you have or any more advice feel free to post


well would it be cheeper to find a used stock turbo or would it be cheeper and better to just rebuild one? And this is exactly why i know i still need info and advice haha. Thanks so far you have been a big help.

Injectors- 450cc. Since you have no way of tuning for bigger injectors that's what you're stuck with. A shop cannot tune your car without YOU having a tuner to do it. For tuners look into ecmlink, or ecuflash. Both will cost you ~$5-600 seeing as how you probably don't have an eprom ecu, or a flashable ecu.

Headers- your car doesn't have headers. Turboed cars use manifolds and again, stray away from ebay. You're best bet here is to get a stock 2g manifold and port it, or buy a ported 2g manifold. They are cheap and you can make great power with them when they're ported.

Now that you've got your 16g, injectors, and a manifold you want your intercooler. For you I'd suggest getting either the VRSF or punishment racing kit. I personally had the punishment kit on my 2g because VRSF had a really long wait time for their kits to be finished. It'll bolt right up to your 16g and comes with a bov and all the piping. VERY easy to install.

Hope that helps some. Going that route, everything I have listed (minus a tuning device) will run less than $1000 and will be way more power than your FWD needs on the streets (once you can get it tuned).

Edit: For a turbo you could get a bolt on 14b with all the lines needed for ~$150, in good condition. It's quite a powerful little hairdryer.

 

[Boomdeeze]

I think you should do alot of reading on all the questions you have about parts and what is a good setup. It will be alot easier for you to understand if you read a whole article on a particular setup, rather than people trying to sum it up for you. You are looking for people to list every single part that you will need and by the sounds of it, you need alot of little things including the larger items. Just read up on these cars a little more in depth and build the car right the first time.

You will be better off knowing the car yourself before you build it. Alot of the comments here are great ideas so just read into a couple of them and choose the one that suits your budget.

And another thing about the break in Turbo theory, I broke my motor in on my 50 trim on wastegate pressure and haven't had one problem. Ran over 25 lbs with no issues and now will be running 30+. No need to buy two turbos, just buy the Turbo your going to use and run it off the wastegate pressure.

 

[charleso89]

And yes i am still doing research my self every day. But help is always nice. What are some sites to look at to find things besides on here. I dont know many places to find dsm parts. I am still looking for more peoples posts for more info also.

 

[Boomdeeze]

This site had so much information that you will be able to learn everything you need here. But you can look for some local forums that might help you find some people to help you out

 

[charleso89]

Yea i ment im still goin through everything on here. And i ment sites to buy parts from.

 

[Rideit636]

You seem to keep mentioning getting a cheap turbo-timer, and then upgrading it in the future. Why so much emphasis on something that isn't necessary at all, but yet your willing to skimp on something as important as your turbocharger? You also seem to be set on an HKS exhaust, but if you are a little more open minded on brands (and there are much better exhausts out there) you can find an excellent deal on a used 3" turbo-back. A header is not needed, get a 2G or Evo3 manifold. Also, listen to everyone and steer clear of anything on eBay if you don't know what you're buying. There are very few not real name brand eBay things that you can get away with. You're better off avoiding it all together and searching in the marketplace and on craigslist for used parts that can be had for next to nothing.

How I would do it, this stuff is all used of course:

Evo3 16G
Evo3 Manifold
Evo3 o2
Evo 8 Injectors
Evo 9 Fuel Pump
VRSF or PR Front mount
3" Turbo-back
SAFC
1G BOV

$1200ish if you keep our eye out

Good luck with the build.

 

[delta448]

I just have a couple of opinions to add to some of the things being thrown around.

Don't baby the engine during break-in, it needs to see some boost. You break it in too easy and it'll start to lose compression and eat oil earlier.

Don't buy a T25, it's a total waste. It'll crap out quickly when pushed at much over 15psi even on an otherwise stock car. A 14b (1G 5spd stock turbo) however, is a pretty good street turbo. If you have the cash right now I'd skip on over to an Evo 3 16G turbo. It's affordable, has similar spool to a 14b and is capable of 400+whp on an intelligently built car. That's why it's often said to be the correct turbo choice for 90% of all DSMers.

Even well-made high-dollar high-quality tubular turbo "headers" will crack quicker than a cast manifold (like Evo 3, stock 2G or FP's Race mani), but some may offer better boost recovery and overall flow. However, if you decide to use one that was sourced from eBay then you're either really brave, really naive, or just don't care.

As mentioned, until you have a tuning interface, datalogger and a wideband oxygen sensor, don't install larger injectors.

Skip the Evo 8 160lph fuel pump unless you get a really good deal on it. An Evo 9 pump is not as bad, but still not as good as a 190lph. The Evo 8 pumps have a pressure relief valve that opens inside the pump and kills flow at anything past roughly 65psi pumping pressure. So if you run more than 22psi of boost (43.5 base + 22 = 65.5), the pump can cause you to run lean really quick. Buy a Walbro 190lph, it's not as likely going to overrun your stock fuel pressure regulator at idle and cause tuning inaccuracy as a 255lph. Also, it will still support about as much airflow as you're ever going to make with an Evo 3 turbo.

Good Luck.

...

Excellent post Tyeler.

 

[phunny]

How exactly are you going to torque down the crank?

 

[Pauly D]

Never buy engine parts from ebay, and do lots and lots of research you will be surprised how much you learn on DSM TUNERS. Buy quality parts Extreme psi is awesome.

 

[shay4g63]

i just sent you a pm on a STOCK turbo kit minus the bov.Thats everything for 4 bills shipped, Let me know what you think hopefully you don't buy some ebay crap

 

[ed1380]

How exactly are you going to torque down the crank?

Most auto part stores rent tools for free. I used to rent their torque wrench all the time until I got one

 

[charleso89]

I just have a couple of opinions to add to some of the things being thrown around.

Don't baby the engine during break-in, it needs to see some boost. You break it in too easy and it'll start to lose compression and eat oil earlier.

Don't buy a T25, it's a total waste. It'll crap out quickly when pushed at much over 15psi even on an otherwise stock car. A 14b (1G 5spd stock turbo) however, is a pretty good street turbo. If you have the cash right now I'd skip on over to an Evo 3 16G turbo. It's affordable, has similar spool to a 14b and is capable of 400+whp on an intelligently built car. That's why it's often said to be the correct turbo choice for 90% of all DSMers.

Even well-made high-dollar high-quality tubular turbo "headers" will crack quicker than a cast manifold (like Evo 3, stock 2G or FP's Race mani), but some may offer better boost recovery and overall flow. However, if you decide to use one that was sourced from eBay then you're either really brave, really naive, or just don't care.

As mentioned, until you have a tuning interface, datalogger and a wideband oxygen sensor, don't install larger injectors.

Skip the Evo 8 160lph fuel pump unless you get a really good deal on it. An Evo 9 pump is not as bad, but still not as good as a 190lph. The Evo 8 pumps have a pressure relief valve that opens inside the pump and kills flow at anything past roughly 65psi pumping pressure. So if you run more than 22psi of boost (43.5 base + 22 = 65.5), the pump can cause you to run lean really quick. Buy a Walbro 190lph, it's not as likely going to overrun your stock fuel pressure regulator at idle and cause tuning inaccuracy as a 255lph. Also, it will still support about as much airflow as you're ever going to make with an Evo 3 turbo.

Good Luck.


Excellent post Tyeler.

Thank you for all the info. And for the record i am not buying anything at all from ebay. Thanks to everyone who did open my minds on the ebay ittems. I was under the assumption from some one i knew that i had to buy header. But i found out on here he was wrong. Which is why i joined this site. The guy i bought the car from said if i had any questions or needed help to come on here.

I am still a little behind on the tunning aspect i think i read to many different posts on it. I know i need to change my ecu correct? Sorry i am still asking alot of questions im just trying to learn all i can, before i start any work on the engine or car at all.

Most auto part stores rent tools for free. I used to rent their torque wrench all the time until I got one

What does torque down the crank do. My brother who told me he would help me with the build but i dont want to put all my faith in just him. Plus wanna do it my self and learn my dsm for future reference also

Where does every one buy the vrf or pr fmic at? I know its not just on here. I ask because of the fact i may not have money at the time of a good on here and i am not buying any parts till i figure it all out. Which i am learning alot.

 

[DaRKSiDeGSX]

I'd steer clear of tuning or larger injectors. Save them for down the road so you'll appreciate the gains of modifications. Once you have a solid platform and it's running adding injectors, fuel pump, piggy back tuner are simple. I suggested the 14b route since I personally use that turbo on my 2g and I like it a lot. It makes good power, and spools pretty quickly. Cost couldn't be beat in my case so it was chosen over a 16g. If you can afford a 16g now I'd say go for it. If you join the evo sites you may find there stock parts much cheaper since they are toss away parts to them. In the way our 450's are useless to most of us and gold on honda and miata sites...

I swear I'm going to build a whole car on strictly e-bay stuff. We can test it all like TOP GEAR, or myth busters....We'll beat the brakes off it, literally. We'll see what breaks along the way and replace it with more expensive parts and continue to do so and gauge the life span of items. Continuing to do so until all e-bay parts are gone or catastrophic failure occurs. I have a perfect test Miata waiting for turbo, which was going to receive a 14b...but maybe a 16g e-bay kit instead.....haha...We'll video document the entire life of said car and see what happens.

 

[charleso89]

I'd steer clear of tuning or larger injectors. Save them for down the road so you'll appreciate the gains of modifications. Once you have a solid platform and it's running adding injectors, fuel pump, piggy back tuner are simple. I suggested the 14b route since I personally use that turbo on my 2g and I like it a lot. It makes good power, and spools pretty quickly. Cost couldn't be beat in my case so it was chosen over a 16g. If you can afford a 16g now I'd say go for it. If you join the evo sites you may find there stock parts much cheaper since they are toss away parts to them. In the way our 450's are useless to most of us and gold on honda and miata sites...

I swear I'm going to build a whole car on strictly e-bay stuff. We can test it all like TOP GEAR, or myth busters....We'll beat the brakes off it, literally. We'll see what breaks along the way and replace it with more expensive parts and continue to do so and gauge the life span of items. Continuing to do so until all e-bay parts are gone or catastrophic failure occurs. I have a perfect test Miata waiting for turbo, which was going to receive a 14b...but maybe a 16g e-bay kit instead.....haha...We'll video document the entire life of said car and see what happens.

The 14 b is better then the 16g to u huh? And i have no injectors or anything so instead of buying some and replacing them later i want to just do it right the first time

 

[ed1380]

best to worse is small 16g, evo 16g, big 16g.

I had a big16g and wanted to trade it for a small. The best of both words is the evo 16g but it costs more.

 

[charleso89]

Does the small 16g have better compression and launch then the evo 16g. Or is the evo 16 g the best ballanced. And would you happen to know a site to order the vrfm or the pr fmic

 

[ed1380]

the evo 16g is the best balance (also most expensive). $560 new. $350-450 used. but it has the spool of a small 16g and flows more than the big16g.

 

[charleso89]

You seem to keep mentioning getting a cheap turbo-timer, and then upgrading it in the future. Why so much emphasis on something that isn't necessary at all, but yet your willing to skimp on something as important as your turbocharger? You also seem to be set on an HKS exhaust, but if you are a little more open minded on brands (and there are much better exhausts out there) you can find an excellent deal on a used 3" turbo-back. A header is not needed, get a 2G or Evo3 manifold. Also, listen to everyone and steer clear of anything on eBay if you don't know what you're buying. There are very few not real name brand eBay things that you can get away with. You're better off avoiding it all together and searching in the marketplace and on craigslist for used parts that can be had for next to nothing.

How I would do it, this stuff is all used of course:

Evo3 16G
Evo3 Manifold
Evo3 o2
Evo 8 Injectors
Evo 9 Fuel Pump
VRSF or PR Front mount
3" Turbo-back
SAFC
1G BOV

$1200ish if you keep our eye out

Good luck with the build.

what is the safc? And you seem to not really like the hks exhuast. Im not stuck on name brand, yea i like hks but not stuck on it from my understanding that was just as good as any other exhaust and sounds decent to. what dont you like about it. Which do you think is better i might do some comperisson

the evo 16g is the best balance (also most expensive). $560 new. $350-450 used. but it has the spool of a small 16g and flows more than the big16g.

Well thank you. I originally didnt know there were three kinds of 16g. Since i havent seen much on this does, for example a megan racing down pipe conect to a stock manifold? or even a evo manifold