I would like some input on first mod.

[Antimob]

I'm still kind of new to the dsm scene and would like some input. I have a stock 95 gs-t (fwd talon with 2.0 T, correct?). I have removed the restricter for the bcs and run about 13-14psi according to my autometer boost gauge. I am wondering what mod you more seasoned tuners would go with. Its between a MBC, a fuel pressure regulator or a wideband. I'm not looking to gain 1000000000 hp with a quick mod, I'm trying to get a decent base to start to add bigger parts like cams and injectors with. Dsmlink is a must so i have already budgeted for that. if anyone has suggestions beyond those three items, please voice your opinion, and yes, Maintenance has been done, no worries about that

 

[stephen_gst]

+1 on maintenance, i also want to start on some mods but not before i can ensure that the car wont leave me stranded at the moment like it did the other night when the new alternator crapped out on me.

 

[kenamond]

I'd also like to chime in about Mantega's response. Don't get defensive about it...as I was reading through the thread, I was skeptical about your claim on maintenance...if you're new and you just say you did "all" the maintenance, we tend to wonder what "all" means. No offense to you...it's the internet and we're all strangers, but those of us who legitimately want to help people have learned from *years* of reading posts that the poster may not realize they haven't actually done the "DSM maintenance" checks that would constitute "all".

I (and, I assume, Mantega) wouldn't have posted if you listed what you checked out in your maintenance. For example, a 2g BOV can't hold more than 12psi, so you're likely not running more than 12psi boost unless you have a damned miracle 2g BOV. That makes me wonder if you've boost leak tested. Which makes me question whether you've done the "DSM maintenance" stuff that's not the same as "generic vehicle maintenance" stuff. Have you cleaned the grasshopper and moth carcasses out of your stock SMIC and straightened the thin vanes? Cleaned the SMIC interior out to remove oil residue from the VC breather recirculation that dumps oil mist in your intake tract? We're reading a post from a stranger and we (including Mantega) are actually trying to help. That said, maybe you have done "all" maintenance. We just don't know.

Back to your original question, I like most of the recommendations so far, but it all hinges on whether or not you've actually done "all" of the maintenance. Boost leak test, compression test (corrected for altitude if you're up in the mountains like me), etc.

You mentioned that your car has a cone filter. Does it also have an aftermarket intake pipe? If not, tear out your intake and look at the POS pipe that you have and think about what it means. That's a hard question if you don't know what the stock part looks like, but searching for and answering the question gives you knowledge about your car. If you have a stock intake pipe, I'd put a replacement up there on the list of first mods. Of course, that makes you wonder about a cold-air intake system.

I disagree about a narrowband as the next mod. I'd do unrestricted intake first (if you don't have it already...see previous paragraph) followed by a full 3" exhaust, catless if your local law allows, mufflers as your ear/GF/wife (and local law) demands, and a data logger. Air flow (intake and exhaust) restrictions have to go. The remaining stock parts are compatible with this upgrade, and any mediocre-to-significant upgrade target would need these. A data logger is cheap and lets you test if you've got knock or are otherwise leaning out. In theory, your fuel system can handle this, but who knows how clogged your fuel lines/filter are...hence a data logger. After that, I'd go with a 1g or aftermarket *recirculating* BOV. Then via datalogger, you can add a MBC and eek a couple of safe psi of boost before you need additional upgrades. By then, you will have read, read, and read some more and won't have to ask about the next step.

Research valve cover removal/reinstallment before/if you remove it to check for cam upgrades. I agree that it's unlikely that you have upgraded cams unless the previous owner (or 2/3/4 back) was aiming at a sleeper. I cracked my VC when reinstalling it (spark plug o-ring shifted). They are more expensive than a good performance-adding mod, though I got a nicer-looking 1g VC as a result of my issue. As said already, they bust easily, and welding it back together (if you can weld cast aluminum) or buying a replacement isn't the best use of your time/money.

I realize that I'm just eager to type helpful information. As was also mentioned, read and ponder the upgrade paths part of this site. You're not the first person to ask...not even close...to the point that the general consensus was documented and provided as the upgrade path section on this site. The key is to read, read, and read until you can answer most of your own questions. If you really understand how these cars work, you can make your own educated decisions. If you get to the point where you know too much, let me know , because I've got a question or two for you.

Last thought: if you're modding a DSM, you're gonna be (hopefully) hanging out here for a while. Welcome aboard!

 

[iBoostDSM]

In his first post he states that maintenance is taken care off.

I wouldn't bother installing a wideband on a stock exhaust system unless you intend to keep it for a while.

This is a good point. Doing an exhaust (down pipe and cat back) and wideband at the same time would make the install as simple as possible.

 

[u2slow]

The replies focused on maintenance are legit.

More power means adding more air. But, to do that safely, you must be able to add more fuel. I would start with the a bigger fuel pump to support the other mods that add power. Unless I missed it, this was only mentioned 1 time.

If you go to a 3" exhaust, you will also have boost creep. Do some research on what`s involved with preventing that.

Datalogging is essential.

Good luck

 

[boost97gst]

I always suggest link or tuning solution as the first upgrade. You get plenty of time to know the system, the basics of tuning, and other essential stuff about your car so that 2 yrs down the road when youre revving it out to 9500 and pumping 65lbs/min of air through your engine, you have a grasp of what is really going on when you look at the logs and can much more efficiently correct things and optimize your specific setup.
Good luck on whatever you choose. Just dont half ass things, dont buy shit twice. I learned both lessons the hard way. Ends up costing a fortune. And even worse, it costs TIME which is precious in my book.

 

[School Boy]

What kind of power is the 14b rated to with supporting mods?

 

[boost97gst]

All things lined up right, i believe in the neighborhood of 300whp.
DSM Dyno Challenge - 14b

There ya go, that should give you and idea. If some of those guys didnt upgrade, their mods might still be in there and valid. Check it out

Pneumos car, that was done on a MUSTANG dyno. So just a ballpark figure thats roughly 360whp on a dynojet. 350 minimum. Hes at the top of the list even over guys posting dynojet numbers. Impressive to say the least. 25psi race gas. So you could achieve those numbers on e85 with a bit more boost. Not much more though. Bigger injectors too obviously. But its do-able.

 

[School Boy]

All things lined up right, i believe in the neighborhood of 300whp.
DSM Dyno Challenge - 14b

There ya go, that should give you and idea. If some of those guys didnt upgrade, their mods might still be in there and valid. Check it out

Pneumos car, that was done on a MUSTANG dyno. So just a ballpark figure thats roughly 360whp on a dynojet. 350 minimum. Hes at the top of the list even over guys posting dynojet numbers. Impressive to say the least. 25psi race gas. So you could achieve those numbers on e85 with a bit more boost. Not much more though. Bigger injectors too obviously. But its do-able.

Damn. I didnt realize you can squeeze that much out of a 14b. Thats impressive. What is the stock long block good up to? I have a completely stock motor, i dont want to hurt it.

 

[boost97gst]

You have a 90. Not sure if its a 6 bolt or 7 really. I think its a 6. Either way im pretty sure they can be made to crank out over 500whp. Not for very long though. A guy on here was running a stock 7 bolt at a ridiculous level and running 1/4 miles alot. Heavy abuse. His lasted forever. I cant remember username. I would not go north of 400whp if it were me. The big worry is stretching the head studs. With arps up there i would feel confident at 400whp on a daily.
Then again, I would never own a dsm as a daily! . Heeeeellll no

 

[kenamond]

If you go to a 3" exhaust, you will also have boost creep. Do some research on what`s involved with preventing that.

A T25 won't creep on a 3" exhaust. This assumes he still has a stock turbo.

 

[Hillala]

I'm sure it's been said and if it hasne't we're all going to hell... Do a full tune-up! Wideband is great and ecmlink for tuning or just about anything else... We can throw all types of paths and first items to start but what do YOU want to get out of YOUR car? That's the big question.

 

[Satanas_propia64]

+1 to what a lot of folks said, maintenance should be #1. But past that you could be like me, I bought a running talon then turned it into a non running talon and ripped that s.o.b apart.... call it trust issues but it benefits me to find out if a seller was bullsh*tting me or not. But past being a crazy and ripping apart a car modding your baby really just comes down to what your goals are. MachV motorsports has a nice write up on there page about upgrades and stages and I think Buschsur racing has a write up as well. Basic bolt ons can assist on making extra power while deciding on upgrade paths best of luck bud.

 

[School Boy]

You have a 90. Not sure if its a 6 bolt or 7 really. I think its a 6. Either way im pretty sure they can be made to crank out over 500whp. Not for very long though. A guy on here was running a stock 7 bolt at a ridiculous level and running 1/4 miles alot. Heavy abuse. His lasted forever. I cant remember username. I would not go north of 400whp if it were me. The big worry is stretching the head studs. With arps up there i would feel confident at 400whp on a daily.
Then again, I would never own a dsm as a daily! . Heeeeellll no

Yeah its a 6 bolt motor. Then I have plenty of motor to support the 14b. I dont think it will make anywhere near 400whp with my set up.

 

[Antimob]

I'd also like to chime in about Mantega's response. Don't get defensive about it...as I was reading through the thread, I was skeptical about your claim on maintenance...if you're new and you just say you did "all" the maintenance, we tend to wonder what "all" means. No offense to you...it's the internet and we're all strangers, but those of us who legitimately want to help people have learned from *years* of reading posts that the poster may not realize they haven't actually done the "DSM maintenance" checks that would constitute "all".

I (and, I assume, Mantega) wouldn't have posted if you listed what you checked out in your maintenance. For example, a 2g BOV can't hold more than 12psi, so you're likely not running more than 12psi boost unless you have a damned miracle 2g BOV. That makes me wonder if you've boost leak tested. Which makes me question whether you've done the "DSM maintenance" stuff that's not the same as "generic vehicle maintenance" stuff. Have you cleaned the grasshopper and moth carcasses out of your stock SMIC and straightened the thin vanes? Cleaned the SMIC interior out to remove oil residue from the VC breather recirculation that dumps oil mist in your intake tract? We're reading a post from a stranger and we (including Mantega) are actually trying to help. That said, maybe you have done "all" maintenance. We just don't know.

Back to your original question, I like most of the recommendations so far, but it all hinges on whether or not you've actually done "all" of the maintenance. Boost leak test, compression test (corrected for altitude if you're up in the mountains like me), etc.

You mentioned that your car has a cone filter. Does it also have an aftermarket intake pipe? If not, tear out your intake and look at the POS pipe that you have and think about what it means. That's a hard question if you don't know what the stock part looks like, but searching for and answering the question gives you knowledge about your car. If you have a stock intake pipe, I'd put a replacement up there on the list of first mods. Of course, that makes you wonder about a cold-air intake system.

I disagree about a narrowband as the next mod. I'd do unrestricted intake first (if you don't have it already...see previous paragraph) followed by a full 3" exhaust, catless if your local law allows, mufflers as your ear/GF/wife (and local law) demands, and a data logger. Air flow (intake and exhaust) restrictions have to go. The remaining stock parts are compatible with this upgrade, and any mediocre-to-significant upgrade target would need these. A data logger is cheap and lets you test if you've got knock or are otherwise leaning out. In theory, your fuel system can handle this, but who knows how clogged your fuel lines/filter are...hence a data logger. After that, I'd go with a 1g or aftermarket *recirculating* BOV. Then via datalogger, you can add a MBC and eek a couple of safe psi of boost before you need additional upgrades. By then, you will have read, read, and read some more and won't have to ask about the next step.

Research valve cover removal/reinstallment before/if you remove it to check for cam upgrades. I agree that it's unlikely that you have upgraded cams unless the previous owner (or 2/3/4 back) was aiming at a sleeper. I cracked my VC when reinstalling it (spark plug o-ring shifted). They are more expensive than a good performance-adding mod, though I got a nicer-looking 1g VC as a result of my issue. As said already, they bust easily, and welding it back together (if you can weld cast aluminum) or buying a replacement isn't the best use of your time/money.

I realize that I'm just eager to type helpful information. As was also mentioned, read and ponder the upgrade paths part of this site. You're not the first person to ask...not even close...to the point that the general consensus was documented and provided as the upgrade path section on this site. The key is to read, read, and read until you can answer most of your own questions. If you really understand how these cars work, you can make your own educated decisions. If you get to the point where you know too much, let me know , because I've got a question or two for you.

Last thought: if you're modding a DSM, you're gonna be (hopefully) hanging out here for a while. Welcome aboard!

I've been away for a few days and I did reread these posts, and now level headed I understand where mantega was coming from. And I have only my boost gauge to go off of for boost levels, ill upload a picture later today. I will admit though that I did not do a boost leak test I have yet to acquire all the parts to make a tester.

 

[Bud92gsx]

All things lined up right, i believe in the neighborhood of 300whp.
DSM Dyno Challenge - 14b

There ya go, that should give you and idea. If some of those guys didnt upgrade, their mods might still be in there and valid. Check it out

Pneumos car, that was done on a MUSTANG dyno. So just a ballpark figure thats roughly 360whp on a dynojet. 350 minimum. Hes at the top of the list even over guys posting dynojet numbers. Impressive to say the least. 25psi race gas. So you could achieve those numbers on e85 with a bit more boost. Not much more though. Bigger injectors too obviously. But its do-able.

I hope to sneak into the top ten 14b hp next spring at map.

 

[kenamond]

I've been away for a few days and I did reread these posts, and now level headed I understand where mantega was coming from. And I have only my boost gauge to go off of for boost levels, ill upload a picture later today. I will admit though that I did not do a boost leak test I have yet to acquire all the parts to make a tester.

Great! The BLTester I have works like a charm. Uses the pvc end cap, rubber hose, hose clamp, tire valve version. Been so long I don't remember all the parts. Search...heck someone probably came up with a better version since I made mine. If you don't have an air compressor (I don't) and don't have the cash or don't want to buy one, go get a 5 or 8 gallon compressed air tank at WalMart or your local hardware store and fill it up at a gas station (that's what I do). Fine for a BLT.

Then be prepared to track down half a dozen leaks. It'll get you under the hood tearing some stuff apart which makes you more familiar with what's where.

 

[AJ_tsi]

BLT is a much over looked test that people just don't do too often. I just picked up another 2g tsi and the guy couldn't figure out why he was having idling issues, surging, and the car just ran like crap. I did a BLT and literally every clamp was loose and I found multiple cracking that was bleeding air in the hoses. remember SOAPY WATER is your friend in this adventure.. hahaha. I replaced all of the piping with after market stuff and the car ran great.

 

[Antimob]

Alrighty, here they finally are. Im a full time student and working 45+ hours weekly so time is not always nice to me. and my boost gauge video is on my videos, or here is the youtube link to it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Blb4L7R1PM&feature=youtu.be

 

[talonguy85]

Pic of the turbo? Everything else appears to be stock.

 

[Aproductions]

you want to be able to monitor your car before trying to gain hp.

Boom, there ya go.

 

[Bchiles]

Research, Research, Research! Knowing exactly what is in your car would be the most important part of modding any vehicle. Based on the pictures it all looked stock so I would assume that the engine is basically stock which is a good start. The vin number can tell you exactly what type of engine and transmission set up that you have. Also the year specific shop manual would contain all of the vehicles specifications, which is handy to have on hand. Use the forums here to learn about the car. If you don't know about it just ask, no one should ever fault you for trying to gain knowledge about your vehicle. But also make sure you try to look up information first because people will get on you about asking something that has already been threaded 1,000,000 times.
Then get your hands dirty! get in there check things out. Based on your pictures it assumes you know your way around the engine. Still being sure that you know where everything is under that hood, and what it does never hurts. If you have already done this then awesome. Assuming that all the other motor sensors function properly which would be easy to test with all the information researched earlier. I would suggest building your self a turbo pressure tester. Just to make sure that the system holds Proper PSI. It can help you find leaks in inter cooler piping or seals, also comes in handy if you upgrade the turbo system later on to check for leaks.

I would begin to modify the vehicle this way:
Removing the stock EGR equipment is a good start its cheap and easy to do. Assuming your state does not require emission checks by law. I also removed things like the A/C system because mine did not work and it added weight and took up space. These things won't increase the horse power but for me it got rid of old non functioning restrictive valves, canisters and extra Air tubes. You want to make sure its done correctly by installing line caps and block off plates. Check the rubber connections on the intercooler my car was a Michigan car and most of its life was spent as a summer driver, but still the connections on the inter cooler were corroded. I would begin to upgrade sensors and gauges next. Accurate knowledge about what is going on in the engine is important. Example: I wouldn't put a MBC without having an accurate after market boost gauge. The Wide Band 02 is a great idea and will get more accurate information for aftermarket gauges.

Basically Follow the tech guides Free and cheap mods for your vehicle. The cheap and free mods cover areas that may be over looked because the engine sounds like its running good. Simple improvements and equipment checks will get you way farther then jumping into horse power upgrades. Having done this while working and going to school I know how you feel, but these are the cost effective ways to start modifying your car safely.

 

[eDeclpse92]

A T25 won't creep on a 3" exhaust. This assumes he still has a stock turbo.

I'm not trying to defy what you are saying but I had a 14B that was internally gated and I had boost creep like nobodies business. I checked everything else and that was the only thing I could think of that would cause it. I had a 3" exhaust all the way back with an electric cut-out. It might have been because I am running on e85 with 20psi. Please correct me if I am wrong. I went to an external wastegate and it solved the problem.

 

[WES_393]

MHI turbos creep because the TD05H turbine flows better than the wastegate (with a nice big exhaust). The T25 is not an MHI TD05H turbo.

BTW, I don't know where you found that Wankel rotor, but that doesn't belong to a DSM.

 

[Antimob]

MHI turbos creep because the TD05H turbine flows better than the wastegate (with a nice big exhaust). The T25 is not an MHI TD05H turbo.

BTW, I don't know where you found that Wankel rotor, but that doesn't belong to a DSM.

Yeah, clicked one too many pictures xD thats from my 79 rx7.

Pic of the turbo? Everything else appears to be stock.

the turbo i know for sure is stock, i have compared visually to a stock turbo and they are the same.

I found a CXracing downpipe for $135 on ebay, anyone have experience with them? its 3" by the way.

 

[Spoolingaround]

Personally, I would go exhaust first, wideband, manual boost controller and set to 16 or so.

What kind of power is the 14b rated to with supporting mods?

Im running a 14b at 21 lbs which is the highest I've ever seen anyone take it up to in person. I hit 23 lbs on a spike/creep once. But with the right tune and supporting mods the 14b should be able to make just under 300hp.

I found a CXracing downpipe for $135 on ebay, anyone have experience with them? its 3" by the way.

I have never had experience with them but I've heard they're crap. I picked up my megan racing 3" downpipe for like $100 used, took it to an exhaust shop and told them to weld some 3" shit after it. Boom. Custom 3 inch turbo back exhaust.