first engine build would like some advice/help

[charleso89]

hi im building a 4g63t. Im currently looking into a decent turbo kit on ebay. And still finishing the engine itself. But i need help i dont know what size fuel injectors ill need. Or if ill need a better fuel pump. Also need to buy engine mounts hopefully for a semi cheep price. But not sure where to find them. I will add alot more info and pics after i can get my car here and parts out of storage thanks for the help. My budget is limited so i cant dump alot of money out of no where but will save up almost any amount. i was thinking of getting a ebay kit wich has every turbo part house clamp and everything id need. And then upgrade to a better name brand turbo after brake in period of motor. same with the bov and turbo timer. since like i said do have a limited amount of money and it would have everything

 

[RipperXX]

Whoever told you you'd be "ok" with an Evo III 16g with your 450's at 15psi of boost is not giving the wisest advice. Yea you "might" be ok. But you'd be over 100% IDC at stock base pressure I bet. The stock fuel system can bearly take on the stock 14b turbo which is much less efficent @ 15-16psi.

You want to leave room for error, on the cars part sort o speak. Injectors don't always perform flawlessly, and fuel filters sometimes get clogged. Runing your fuel system to it's limit is not wise at all, things can go lean and bad real quick at WOT. (wide open throttle). The rule of thumb is if your pushing whatever injectors your using past 85% it's time to upgrade. As injectors sometimes have hickups if you will when they start to get close to there max duty cycle. I wouldn't RECOMMEND to anyone else to go over stock boost with the stock fuel system on an otherwise stock DSM with an Evo III 16g. SUURE you can get away with it, but im not going to recommend it to someone else, just in case shit were to happen. I mean these things are getting pretty old, few more years and mine will be considered a "classic" by the DMV .

 

[charleso89]

That is exactly what i was thinking so unfortunantly it will put me another months of waiting to get it on the road since ill have to get the v3 and bigger injectors wich is quiet spendy then to learn how to use haha. Do you happen to have any insight on the exhaust theory since i believe boost creep is a bad thing and i dont want to have to much pressure and dont want to have too little either

 

[ed1380]

if you look around you can get some 550's for a good deal and end up selling them for the same amount

 

[Tyeler18]

if you look around you can get some 550's for a good deal and end up selling them for the same amount

Either way he'll need a way to tune it which is what he can't afford right now.

 

[charleso89]

yea wich is why ive decided even tho its goin to take me longer owell im goin to do it right and not risk messing up my engine, even if it puts my car in the garage a while longer to get the v3 also so eventualy ill start buying haha

 

[johnovision27]

As for internal parts, it all depends what your overall goal is. Getting a light crank and magnus H-rods are all fine and dandy, but if you're only aiming for <500hp, then I think that money is better spent elsewhere. Just make sure everything is still in good. New pistons and rods would be a step in the right direction, or even a stroker crank seeing as the engine is apart.
It's all up to you!

Oh, and V3 is the bee's knees

 

[RipperXX]

I just typed you up a ####ing HUGE PM... in fact SO large, I had to break it down into 3 messages!!!!





Basically the stock engine is good to 450whp on a WELL tuned engine...And since it sounds like you want to stick with the Evo III, don't worry you wont blow up the stock engine...from excessive power. BTW, RPM puts more stress on any engine than HP/cyl pressure. Even more so in strokers...and our engines stock or strokerish like, there sure as hell not a square engine anyway . But then there also one of only a few 4cyl out there that make that torque thing..

 

[delta448]

I'm revisiting this thread because I don't agree with where it's headed. Just get the car on the road and work out the bugs it already has. You can upgrade later when you understand what you want better. Don't go installing a bunch of parts that are going to require tuning and troubleshooting. You'll just frustrate yourself and end up giving up on it. Keep It Simple. Once you get it running well, then you'll know there's not an underlying problem causing you more trouble when trying to, for example; tune new injectors.

A 16G @ wastegate pressure is not going to overwork the fuel system unless there's something wrong with it on your particular car. However, a datalogger is obviously recommended so that you can verify that. ECMLink v3 is a great choice, for your goals though ECMLink Lite might be a better choice, you can always just pay the difference to upgrade to full V3 later. I'd stay as close to stock as possible to save cost right now and get Link sooner so that you can become more familiar with it.

Just get the car drivable right now. Worry about making big power later. I don't really want to see your car listed in the classifieds 6 months from now with "has never ran since I've owned it" in the body of the ad.

 

[charleso89]

Are you able to tune a car/engine that hasnt even been ran together yet? Since the engine has no miles on it and wasnt originaly from this car

 

[ShadowRS99]

No Ebay kit.

 

[delta448]

Are you able to tune a car/engine that hasnt even been ran together yet? Since the engine has no miles on it and wasnt originaly from this car

You can rough tune it if you really know what you're doing, and have all the specs for the injectors -etc., but the fine tuning for a good running car is tough to nail perfect without any baseline of the stock car, even if it's just 10 minutes down the block and back. When you have to compensate for bigger injectors and don't have a good feel of how the car runs stock, it can be very difficult to pinpoint any number of little overlooked problems.

Your stock ECU calibration is good enough to run any stock 2G engine with a stock 2G MAS and stock 450cc fuel injectors, as long as you also provide it with the correct CAS signal for the ECU you're using and swap the plug wires and injector harnesses to match the firing triggers programmed into the ECU you're using.

The only real issue is with all that is the backwards spinning stock 2Ga CAS. Only the 95-96 models put the CAS on the t-belt side of the intake cam, and only those year ECUs expect to see an inverted CAS signal with respect to your 6 bolt's 1G CAS. But I'm sure you already know all about that since you're doing this swap, right?

 

[98_gsx_]

You will defiantly need a bigger fuel pump and depending on your hp goals depends on the size injectors you will need. If you get anything bigger than the stock you will need at least 560cc injectors from an evo or something bigger. Defiantly just get the polyurethane inserts for your motor mounts...maperformance.com has good stuff at a fair price.

Unless you want your turbo to last 2seconds don't get a ebay turbo....also if you dont wanna go way over borad on money...look for a 16g or maybe even a 20g.....with injectors and pump you could make around 335 with a 16g or close to 400 with a 20g

 

[charleso89]

You can rough tune it if you really know what you're doing, and have all the specs for the injectors -etc., but the fine tuning for a good running car is tough to nail perfect without any baseline of the stock car, even if it's just 10 minutes down the block and back. When you have to compensate for bigger injectors and don't have a good feel of how the car runs stock, it can be very difficult to pinpoint any number of little overlooked problems.

Your stock ECU calibration is good enough to run any stock 2G engine with a stock 2G MAS and stock 450cc fuel injectors, as long as you also provide it with the correct CAS signal for the ECU you're using and swap the plug wires and injector harnesses to match the firing triggers programmed into the ECU you're using.

The only real issue is with all that is the backwards spinning stock 2Ga CAS. Only the 95-96 models put the CAS on the t-belt side of the intake cam, and only those year ECUs expect to see an inverted CAS signal with respect to your 6 bolt's 1G CAS. But I'm sure you already know all about that since you're doing this swap, right?

Actualy so far i believe its a eagle talon 2g out of a 95 so the engine would be the exact same so i wouldnt have to worry about converting, but when i can go look at my engine next since i have no garage it is in my dads i will find out if its a 6 or 7, but im pretty sure i am correct tho. But to answer your question directly yes i know that. i may not know everything but i do know if its a 1 g or a 7 bolt with out that i need to convert

You will defiantly need a bigger fuel pump and depending on your hp goals depends on the size injectors you will need. If you get anything bigger than the stock you will need at least 560cc injectors from an evo or something bigger. Defiantly just get the polyurethane inserts for your motor mounts...maperformance.com has good stuff at a fair price.

Unless you want your turbo to last 2seconds don't get a ebay turbo....also if you dont wanna go way over borad on money...look for a 16g or maybe even a 20g.....with injectors and pump you could make around 335 with a 16g or close to 400 with a 20g

Since im also goin to drive it in town i am goin to use a evo 16 g. I will probaly run 650cc injectors and a atleast 190lph, and a aeromotive afpr.

 

[ed1380]

if you use a 190, then no need for a fpr. that'll save you $150 right there

 

[charleso89]

Yea i was just thinking if i go that route i may upgrade fuel pump then or if i did later. But yes will probly wait and worry about the afpr later. Altho i am tossing back and forth the v3 or the light. I dont know if i wanna go light and maybe upgrade to v3 or do it off the bat.

 

[ed1380]

you can do lite and then just pay the rest and you get full.

 

[charleso89]

Yea i have been on ecmlink looking up and comparing the 2, Just so i have a more understanding on it so im not just taken advice but still able to turn it into my own and the light does look good. And i understand that pay the difference later now also

 

[quickspool4g63]

Honestly everything that i have bought off of Ebay i have had to modify to fit my car. EVENTHOUGHHH "it was meant to fit my car." And i even try to stay away from xs power. Bought the 1g intercooler kit and it has been nothing but a headache, always buy brand name! But good luck with the build man, im in the process of rebuilding mine now.

 

[charleso89]

I have found a p evo 3 02 housing ported a full 3 inch diameter i was wondering if this was worth anything. Or if it is just over kill and in a sence useless

 

[DaRKSiDeGSX]

I forgot the most important piece of dsm build information possible. When it doesn't start DON'T PANIC...this is normal. haha

 

[charleso89]

Well the latest is with a third kid and looking for a house. I have decided to go with the stock route for now so here soon i shall be shopping for a stock kit

 

[charleso89]

I would vote go stock all the way. 14b, 450 injectors, maybe 3 inch exhaust. get some miles on it. find out how they opperate, and then start modding it.

i am so going that route im debating on a stock turbo tho since of my low funds right now and if i want a external waiste gate off my o2 or just get regular o2 housing