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Feeler: Interest in Motorsports-spec Wiring?

RWD4G63

Proven Member
478
134
Dec 7, 2011
Paw Paw, Michigan
Hi there. The point of this thread is discuss the interest for motorsports-spec wiring for the DSM community and what specifically the community needs.

First I'll give you some examples of the kind of wiring I'm talking about (my work):

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Secondly, you might have seen my other thread about building a motorsports spec engine harness for my personal DSM. Unfortunately that was cut short by a township that deemed the car blight and my financial situation at the time.:toobad:
I'd still love to do this but would need a chassis to work with.

So I'm here to ask. Are you guys interested in wiring like this for your cars? Full engine harnesses can be quite expensive, but I could also do production runs of smaller components, like crank or cam sensor adapters, injector adapters, or other things of that nature. Is there anything like this that I can provide for the community?
 

bastarddsm

Proven Member
5,418
1,252
Aug 26, 2003
Mendota, Illinois
A couple suggestions, not to be mean, but honest.
#1, demonstrate that you have the means to get this stuff done. A few pics of an incomplete harness is cool and all, but you just mentioned you lost your car due to financial hardship and such... How do potential customers know you are not going to fold up and disappear with their money? That's a major issue in the motorsports world these days, guys talking a big game and not having any results. IIRC, you've had some "epic build" threads that never got finished.... That's not good.

#2, If you have actually gotten a few done, who's cars and what have they accomplished with them? Selling a few completed harnesses to a couple of JSB builds doesn't say much either.

#3 I personally don't like these type of parts. It's a harness that to do right costs more than the car it's going on is worth, but because of the hype "I gotta have it because my perfectly repairable stock harness is JUNK" Just leads to more build beyond the owners means that are abandoned, parted, scrapped, and an overall decline of the health of our community.

#4 gauging interest is a fools errand. Everyone is always interested until it's time to part with cash.

#5 show us the part of the work that actually matters. Show us 50 perfect identical crimps of each type of terminal used. Who cares if you can twist the wires up all pretty like if the crimps suck.
 

RWD4G63

Proven Member
478
134
Dec 7, 2011
Paw Paw, Michigan
A couple suggestions, not to be mean, but honest.
#1, demonstrate that you have the means to get this stuff done. A few pics of an incomplete harness is cool and all, but you just mentioned you lost your car due to financial hardship and such... How do potential customers know you are not going to fold up and disappear with their money? That's a major issue in the motorsports world these days, guys talking a big game and not having any results. IIRC, you've had some "epic build" threads that never got finished.... That's not good.

#2, If you have actually gotten a few done, who's cars and what have they accomplished with them? Selling a few completed harnesses to a couple of JSB builds doesn't say much either.

#3 I personally don't like these type of parts. It's a harness that to do right costs more than the car it's going on is worth, but because of the hype "I gotta have it because my perfectly repairable stock harness is JUNK" Just leads to more build beyond the owners means that are abandoned, parted, scrapped, and an overall decline of the health of our community.

#4 gauging interest is a fools errand. Everyone is always interested until it's time to part with cash.

#5 show us the part of the work that actually matters. Show us 50 perfect identical crimps of each type of terminal used. Who cares if you can twist the wires up all pretty like if the crimps suck.
#1: I'm not interested in taking people's money without the part being completed. This would be a "here's the part on the shelf, you can buy it" kind of deal. Been on this forum since 2011 and part of the dsm world since before then. I have a long history in the S-chassis world including pioneering quality parts that work and people own. My name is Andy Adriance and you can chat with me anytime on Facebook, I'm in all the DSM groups. If it helps you out, these would likely be sold through Volk Metal Craft.
I have three other projects that were farther along than the DSM, so it had to go.
#2: Touge Factory K-swapped S14, Evo X time attack car built at Whalen's Speed(engine and chassis, just lost a drysump belt so it's down), Raif's 7-second Evo 8 (not sure if my harness is still in it at this point though), Nissan Juke time attack car, Ferrari 348. The top picture is the completed Ferrari harness. I'll admit I haven't done the greatest of job documenting them in pictures.
#3: Not my problem. I'm looking to provide a product and service for the community if they need it, and I won't if they don't. I'm also not trying to do engine harnesses, as everybody wants something different with different sensors and at a different budget and it's generally a pain in the ass unless you have someone who's dedicated to their build and wants the best of the best stuff. Also also not interested in doing 'budget' work.
#4: Yeah, I know this. Been around the bend a time or two. Hence why I want this to be a discussion thread about possible needs in the DSM community, not me listing parts and having people chime in with a yes or no.
#5: I have proper DMC and other crimp tooling for the terminals that I use. I'm not going to waste 50 terminals crimping them just to take pictures that my phone camera can barely register with enough detail for it to matter. I don't cut corners and if you don't believe me you don't have to buy something I'm selling.
 
Last edited:

pieceofcloth

Supporting Member
370
227
Oct 6, 2019
Houston, Texas
A couple suggestions, not to be mean, but honest.
#1, demonstrate that you have the means to get this stuff done. A few pics of an incomplete harness is cool and all, but you just mentioned you lost your car due to financial hardship and such... How do potential customers know you are not going to fold up and disappear with their money? That's a major issue in the motorsports world these days, guys talking a big game and not having any results. IIRC, you've had some "epic build" threads that never got finished.... That's not good.

#2, If you have actually gotten a few done, who's cars and what have they accomplished with them? Selling a few completed harnesses to a couple of JSB builds doesn't say much either.

#3 I personally don't like these type of parts. It's a harness that to do right costs more than the car it's going on is worth, but because of the hype "I gotta have it because my perfectly repairable stock harness is JUNK" Just leads to more build beyond the owners means that are abandoned, parted, scrapped, and an overall decline of the health of our community.

#4 gauging interest is a fools errand. Everyone is always interested until it's time to part with cash.

#5 show us the part of the work that actually matters. Show us 50 perfect identical crimps of each type of terminal used. Who cares if you can twist the wires up all pretty like if the crimps suck.
Ditto
 

shellhouse

Supporting Member
103
36
Nov 8, 2021
Atlanta, Georgia
Many people don't know what they want until they see it.

I can relate to a perceived lack of sentimentality and having your work speak for itself, however marketing is a necessary evil for any creator who wants to sell a product.

If your goals are to support the platform, there's a niche that's somewhat accounted for. If you want to grow business, then time may be better spent following and creating trends with more popular or recent platforms.
 

RWD4G63

Proven Member
478
134
Dec 7, 2011
Paw Paw, Michigan
Many people don't know what they want until they see it.

I can relate to a perceived lack of sentimentality and having your work speak for itself, however marketing is a necessary evil for any creator who wants to sell a product.

If your goals are to support the platform, there's a niche that's somewhat accounted for. If you want to grow business, then time may be better spent following and creating trends with more popular or recent platforms.
Hey thanks. Yeah I'm just looking to provide support for people that need it. I have a full time job that more than pays the bills. I've always loved DSM's and 90's imports in general. I realize the market is small, especially for something like this. When I acquire another DSM I'm sure I'll end up recreating all the wiring, and maybe somebody will want something once they see it done.
 

ec17pse

Freelancer
5,395
2,709
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
Wiring is something only a few redo! its critical but also not important to most! heck i wish to redo all of mine but its now pretty much a full track car so eventually once i know what I need to do and want I can proceed.

OHM racing also do harnesses to so you have to fall in line with a company that already offers an outstanding product for many many years.

some of the comments above I agree with and some is a MEH/kinda from me. feelers are good but its not always positive im afraid. also you cannot talk about costs which if anyone does the page is closed or comments removed since your not a freelancer posting in the freelancer section your limited on comments and what you can and cannot talk about.
in PM you can but then everyone cannot see those and the questions for others to see.

We are a very select group of people and the forum is strong with quite alot of very knowledgeable people who would do this them self's as part of their build, so your group goes from everyone to about 5% of people and the few who have tried to do this before end up giving up due to lack of sales on the harness and they either dont get sales or they loose money so give up.
 

RWD4G63

Proven Member
478
134
Dec 7, 2011
Paw Paw, Michigan

like these?

Hmm yeah, but better. I wasn't aware they made so many things. Thanks for the heads up.

Wiring is something only a few redo! its critical but also not important to most! heck i wish to redo all of mine but its now pretty much a full track car so eventually once i know what I need to do and want I can proceed.

OHM racing also do harnesses to so you have to fall in line with a company that already offers an outstanding product for many many years.

some of the comments above I agree with and some is a MEH/kinda from me. feelers are good but its not always positive im afraid. also you cannot talk about costs which if anyone does the page is closed or comments removed since your not a freelancer posting in the freelancer section your limited on comments and what you can and cannot talk about.
in PM you can but then everyone cannot see those and the questions for others to see.

We are a very select group of people and the forum is strong with quite alot of very knowledgeable people who would do this them self's as part of their build, so your group goes from everyone to about 5% of people and the few who have tried to do this before end up giving up due to lack of sales on the harness and they either dont get sales or they loose money so give up.

I knew they made engine harnesses, but I see now they make a lot of stuff. Interesting. Once again sales don't really matter to me, I'm just looking to provide for the community if they need it. Seems like OHM is good enough for most people, which is fine.
 

ec17pse

Freelancer
5,395
2,709
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
Hmm yeah, but better. I wasn't aware they made so many things. Thanks for the heads up.



I knew they made engine harnesses, but I see now they make a lot of stuff. Interesting. Once again sales don't really matter to me, I'm just looking to provide for the community if they need it. Seems like OHM is good enough for most people, which is fine.
of course we do like to have a wide range of people offering parts and services. its very encouraged indeed. getting started off is the hardest part! I found it quite tricky and slow but I now have my name behind me and alot of people know of my quality and the item I bring are very well needed, loved and required. so its possible for you to get going here but as I said any other convos on costs is going to be not allowed so thats going to limit your posting ability here.

post what you can but also have to accept the replys you get and thus far you seem to be a little on the defensive which is not what people want straight away.
I wish you the best and hope you do choose DSMtuners as a ground to start building some more items. just be sure to stick around though as we get alot come and go so fat it really puts a dampner on new folks coming in to do things someone else tried and gave up on if you know what i mean!
 

rabenne

Proven Member
1,820
826
Apr 21, 2006
Racine, Wisconsin
Hmm yeah, but better. I wasn't aware they made so many things. Thanks for the heads up.



I knew they made engine harnesses, but I see now they make a lot of stuff. Interesting. Once again sales don't really matter to me, I'm just looking to provide for the community if they need it. Seems like OHM is good enough for most people, which is fine.
No prob. Better in what way?
 

RWD4G63

Proven Member
478
134
Dec 7, 2011
Paw Paw, Michigan
post what you can but also have to accept the replys you get and thus far you seem to be a little on the defensive which is not what people want straight away.

Been involved with DSM's since 2009, I'm not going anywhere haha. Yeah I guess you can take my second post as defensive, but I don't really care. If people see that as a negative, it's not my problem. I was providing answers to questions and backing up those answers with facts about myself and my career in the automotive world. I don't have to accept insinuations about my work.

No prob. Better in what way?

Primarily the use of Raychem DR-25 instead of braided sleeving, and full sealing the connectors on the backside. Not possible in 100% of situations, but I do it wherever I can.

Here are some pics of the Evo IGN1a coil plates I used to build for Whalen's Speed. Probably built 20 or 30 of these in my time there.

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shellhouse

Supporting Member
103
36
Nov 8, 2021
Atlanta, Georgia
If you're not opposed to doing engine patch harnesses, like say for adapting factory connectors to standalone ECU's, there seems to be some profit margin in that area. Boomslang, for example, charges around $600 for many of their patch harnesses.

What you've posted looks good to me, and I used to do avionics work for military. Also respect that you're not throwing around generic "mil spec" claims, like many seem to do when they use a mil spec part or two.
 

RWD4G63

Proven Member
478
134
Dec 7, 2011
Paw Paw, Michigan
So your big selling feature is the heat shrink you put over the wires (instead of braided sleeving)?

Maybe you're not familiar with just how superior DR-25 is to braided sleeving? It is fire retardant and much, much more abrasion resistant compared to braided stuff. It also provides mild strain relief, and it doesn't allow oil and dirt ingress into the harness. It is absolutely an upgrade. I also twist all my harnesses, which helps keep the signal clean and provides a small amount of strain relief. Any harness that can be fully sealed with a boot also gains service loops on the backside of the connector. Service loops are one of those things that are pointless without boots. Missed a few things with my first response I guess.
If you're not opposed to doing engine patch harnesses, like say for adapting factory connectors to standalone ECU's, there seems to be some profit margin in that area. Boomslang, for example, charges around $600 for many of their patch harnesses.

What you've posted looks good to me, and I used to do avionics work for military. Also respect that you're not throwing around generic "mil spec" claims, like many seem to do when they use a mil spec part or two.
Hey thanks! The patch harnesses I could definitely do, but they're kind of hard to do in true motorsports fashion.
 

ec17pse

Freelancer
5,395
2,709
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
A patch harness from oem ecu to harness would be great to then have take offs of that vs the harness wires! Thats the best thing i can think of for my current personal use. My new ecu i want to run needs a new harness anyway but thats something i would have to build insitu
 

rabenne

Proven Member
1,820
826
Apr 21, 2006
Racine, Wisconsin
Maybe you're not familiar with just how superior DR-25 is to braided sleeving? It is fire retardant and much, much more abrasion resistant compared to braided stuff. It also provides mild strain relief, and it doesn't allow oil and dirt ingress into the harness. It is absolutely an upgrade. I also twist all my harnesses, which helps keep the signal clean and provides a small amount of strain relief. Any harness that can be fully sealed with a boot also gains service loops on the backside of the connector. Service loops are one of those things that are pointless without boots. Missed a few things with my first response I guess.

Hey thanks! The patch harnesses I could definitely do, but they're kind of hard to do in true motorsports fashion.
You are correct, I was not familiar with those advantages of DR-25 versus braided sleeving. How does the raychem stuff flex and bend? On par with the braided stuff? I have avoided heat shrink in the past where I need the wires to bend in tight radius (like injector adapter harnesses). Just FYI, raychem is an upgrade option in the drop-down on ohm's site when you spec a harness - and not a cheap one...

Also, service loops? Please elaborate, I am ignorant and curious about this. pics?
 

shellhouse

Supporting Member
103
36
Nov 8, 2021
Atlanta, Georgia
A patch harness from oem ecu to harness would be great to then have take offs of that vs the harness wires! Thats the best thing i can think of for my current personal use. My new ecu i want to run needs a new harness anyway but thats something i would have to build insitu
There's a company in the states called autosport wiring that does ecu patch harnesses for not too terribly much. I have one for a 3000gt that looks decent at least.
 

RWD4G63

Proven Member
478
134
Dec 7, 2011
Paw Paw, Michigan
You are correct, I was not familiar with those advantages of DR-25 versus braided sleeving. How does the raychem stuff flex and bend? On par with the braided stuff? I have avoided heat shrink in the past where I need the wires to bend in tight radius (like injector adapter harnesses). Just FYI, raychem is an upgrade option in the drop-down on ohm's site when you spec a harness - and not a cheap one...

Also, service loops? Please elaborate, I am ignorant and curious about this. pics?

DR-25 is definitely extremely flexible. Raychem has a bunch of different heat shrinks for different tasks, but DR-25 is purpose built for going over long sections of harness. You can bend it just as much if not more than the bare harness.

Service loops are created at the back of a booted connector to provide strain relief and to allow for the repair of damaged pins. Because the harness if fully sealed and wrapped in raychem, it's basically impossible to run another wire, so you account for this with the loop length. If a pin gets damaged, you simply remove the boot, pull the pin, cut it off, strip, crimp another pin, and reinsert it into the connector. Then a new boot goes over top.

Below are some examples.

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