DSMLink v3 vs AEM EMS (Merged)

[dSmgs-T]

need some advice on what to tune my car with.

2.3 stroker.... eagle h-beams/wiseco
s362
JMFab t3 manifold
JMFab drag intake manifold
kelford 280's
kiggly springs and retainers

shooting for anywhere from 550 to 650 on whatever boost level it takes that will be safe.

i am almost positive i will be running e85 also.

i need to get a STRAIGHT answer on whether or not i go with an aem or v3. i think the SD is the only reason im leaning more towards the aem, but will v3 work perfectly fine for me otherwise too?

any input, advice is greatly appreciated!!

 

[TSimage]

If you are doing it yourself go V3, if you have a good tuner local go AEM EMS.

 

[snowborder714]

V3 has SD support as well. I'd agree with above on what things you should think about. Also remember the costs included for tuning an AEM system. I'd personally say to go with V3 as you'll have A LOT of people willing to help you dial it in and tune, including the people who created it. The customer support is the best in any product I've seen.

I also prefer something I can tweak myself and I've heard from a few people with AEM that it's not nearly as user friendly as V3. There's a lot that needs to be adjusted and set up even before starting the car.

 

[habitatguy187]

V3 now has SD also, it's cheaper, it will always resale, I say for a 2g you can't go wrong with v3.

 

[dSmgs-T]

i thought SD was only for 1g's??! and even then it was still more or less a testing product...

my plans for aem were to have brad brooks come up my way and tune the car. i have talked with him on sever occasions, and he is more than qualified

but either way, i would probably have brooks tune v3 also. its just one thing i would rather not touch, just let the pro work his magic.

 

[snowborder714]

You obviously haven't been keeping up with V3 then

Everyone with V3 can utilize SD. There's even a copy for sale in the classifieds for a good price! Just get an EPROM ECU and you're ready to go.


I'd say get a basic tune on it yourself or with help from the forums. Then if you don't want to do it yourself or with forum help, have Brad put the final touches on it. This way you don't have to waste money on getting basic stuff done.

 

[dSmgs-T]

You obviously haven't been keeping up with V3 then

Everyone with V3 can utilize SD. There's even a copy for sale in the classifieds for a good price! Just get an EPROM ECU and you're ready to go.


I'd say get a basic tune on it yourself or with help from the forums. Then if you don't want to do it yourself or with forum help, have Brad put the final touches on it. This way you don't have to waste money on getting basic stuff done.

wow, i guess i havent been up to date

and thats one reason i wanted to stick with v3... my initial tune to break in my motor would be much easier and cheaper/free instead of using an AEM.

i guess the last thing would be, do you guys think i will be able to get all the power out of the car 650whp max from v3?? idk much about tuning in general, i just feel like there is a lot more features that come with an AEM to allow more power out of your car

 

[snowborder714]

From people I know who have used both, for the added extra cost for the AEM and the little hp upage, I don't think it'd be worth it. Yes, you'll be able to squeeze more out with the AEM, but I know plenty of people who are doing just fine with a high hp car (700+) running v2/v3.

Plus, just think if you're at the track and want to adjust something, do you think you'll know enough in AEM as to where to go and what to adjust? Not trying to knock AEM, as it is a very powerful system. I just don't think there's any need for it unless you have deep pockets and you're going for some record breaking times/speeds. And even then, I'd want to push V3 and see what I could do with it.

 

[dSmgs-T]

thanks for the info brian, you honestly might have talked me into the cheaper/easier tuning solution.

i will keep looking into it this week and decide shortly. i HOPE my car will be done in time for the meet on the 8th!!!

 

[TheBoz]

I would go V3 if I were you. I am running the EMS and I love it, however there are not many dsmers that can help with it, and the AEM forums dont offer very much help. So if you are a self starter the AEM is awesome. But for someone just looking to tune there own car and not have to deal with all the little detailes associated with the AEM go V3.

Also like others have stated, you can always sell the V3 and move to an AEM once you have maxed out the V3.

 

[turboglenn]

There's a lot of stand alones that are not only easier to use but perform as good if not better) and are even quite a bit less expensive.. AEM just has more marketing dollars and power in the US than some of the australian made ECU's that have been dominating the stand alone world for years. Personally out of those 2 I would choose V3 because IMO AEM is overcluttered with useless options to program that are simplified dramatically in other ECU's and my 2 biggest issues with both of those units are being proprietary (not so much the AEM if you opt-out of plug n play and get a real "stand alone" unit (by real i mean configurable for any engine)

Which that last bit is my favorite part of SA-EMS and that's the fact that you can take it right out of one project car and set it up on another completely different one should you sell, wreck or do some major swapping that doesn't fit in the electronic guidelines of what either of the 2 aforementioned ECU's are intended for or require for use in your application.... One thing that really erks me about AEM is the fact that with all the 'confuse you on purpose" bells and whistles they put in that do nothing, they couldn't even give you the injector driver options that 90% of other stand alones do and force you to use a resistor pack for low impedance injectors or even small groups of 2 injectors that are wired to split impedence.

I could honestly go on and on with things that the AEM does and has and requires to run correctly, and as for DSMlink/ECMlink...well, I love it other than the fact that it's only for one car

Well, it's really late and i need to get back to sleep (insomnia) but unless there's a reason you want to pick from those 2 only (already have, can get for free, etc...) then spend some time on the net and download the haltech E6x software (both DOS and windows available), these units are on sale right now because the new platinum line of ECU's introduced but wil be supported for years to come ( i ran the e6k for years until i sparked it with static and burned the comm chip, but it still ran the car, just no PC interface) SO now i have the e6x that gives me on the fly switching of maps from e85 to pump ( or however you configure yours) and enough inputs and outputs to control about anything you could dream up having on your car (and easily definable too unlike MANY SA_EMS's)

alright i'm done...... with jedi swoop of hand " you like haltech, you want to read up on haltech" and i don't pimp them because i am a dealer, i became a dealer because i truely have great faith and apreciation for the ECU, it's user interface and how easily it can be setup for more complicated functions by the average user without studying a book for hours trying to figure out what the units correlate to, you want the idle motor to open more steps, you ad more steps not using a unit of between 0 and 255 for everything (like inj pulse..arghhh just show me the actual MS not the hex code digit that correlates to it )

 

[dSmgs-T]

im open to a lot, kind of "familiar" with haltechs just from a buddy of mine that has one in his saleen... im really thinking dsmlink right now though

 

[turboglenn]

im open to a lot, kind of "familiar" with haltechs just from a buddy of mine that has one in his saleen... im really thinking dsmlink right now though

DSMlink is great, and all that's needed for probably 80-85% of people out there wanting a decent management system on their DSM. What haltech was your friend running? I would guess an e6k if it's an older system. THe reason i ask is that if it was an older DOS based system I would strongly encourage you to go check out the latest windows based stuff (and even the older windows based that's being replaced by the new platinum) It's software even on the older windows stuff is leaps and bouds over the DOS base, but i keep both on my laptop because there's a time and place where tuning through DOS is just easier to do and faster.

 

[JayRolla]

+1 on ecmlink. It has all the features 95% of people need. It has great data logging, injector control, timing control, SD, Sub injector control and much much more.

 

[daren_p]

With all the additions in V3, Ecmlink has really closed the gap compared to V2 vs EMS. Like mentioned you can now run SD & with all the direct access areas that have now been opened up (such as load based tuning for both timing & fuel maps, just like AEM) you should be able to get pretty similar results from both systems. Sure the AEM still has some additional bells & whistles but probably aren't needed by most & if your goal is only 650 whp, V3 is more then capable of that plus its very user friendly & as everyone mentioned, very well supported. You want to switch between different maps on the fly, V3 supports it, you want to run a second set of injectors? V3 supposrts that as well & the list goes on....

Some reading:

v3summary [ECMTuning - wiki]

v3changelog [ECMTuning - wiki]

v3firmwarechangelog [ECMTuning - wiki]

v3screenshots [ECMTuning - wiki]

 

[tkelly27]

The haltech has base maps for mitsu applications too. Don't be afraid of stand alone units, they aren't as plug and play as link, but they aren't as hard as everyone makes them out to be.

There is also the flashable evo ecu's that plug in.

V3 will get the 600hp (probably more) done for you, but other systems will be ready for more, or will go on other projects if you so choose. If you've never tuned, I would either use your stock ecu on as low boost as you can to break the engine in, or get it tuned on the dyno in the break in.

 

[twdorris]

On topic again, I think turboglenn hit the nail on the head. A standalone is going to follow you to whatever your next project car is. It's more work, yes, but you'll have one system you can use on a variety of platforms. It costs more, it *is* more complicated to setup and it will require more work to install and configure. That said, it's a flexible option you can take with you later on.

If you're really just focused on DSMs for the foreseeable future, consider ECMLink by all means. When you're done with DSMs or have reached whatever limitation you feel exists in our product, you can sell it off and buy that standalone. IMO, ECMLink is a great system for getting your feet wet in engine management without having to jump straight into the 10ft side of the pool.

Another thing to consider is passing OBDII emissions tests with a standalone. As far as I know, it's not going to happen.

Thomas Dorris
ECMTuning, Inc.

 

[slowgsr]

I self-tune with AEM EMS, its very easy. I have no problems, just had to get my 'feet wet' and more so learn and study as well as practice the theory behind tuning to get the hang of things more so than learn the software.

I found it much easier than megasquirt (not even the topic), Im just using it as an example. AEM Is great stuff, however I have never used the link, but im sure which ever you go with you will be happy. Im just a HUGE fan of speed density stuff and personally hate MAF's, so thats why i went with AEM and will never use a MAF for power on any of my vehicles, nothing wrong with it just a personal choice.

Goodluck.

 

[ApexVIII]

i have V3 and i love it!! im running SD

like posted earlier, if you are tuning your self then get V3 for sure!

 

[dSmgs-T]

all my info in my profile is from my '97 fwd tsi. i have since basically started from scratch with the awd.

i am kind of familiar with DSMlink, and that is why im leaning towards it. especially since finding out that SD is now available with v3!! as long as v3 wont hold me back from my desired power levels then i really do not care.

there are things with full stand alones that i DO NOT like. such as cold starts, stalling out because of no more ISC etc etc....

i am open minded to any tuner, but i know v3 is a good "simple" system that i can receive a lot of help from on this site and many others. and of course the price is another great thing! i was pretty dead set on AEM EMS but have no since changed my track of thinking

keep the suggestions and "simple info" coming and the pointless arguing to a minimum please

 

[snowborder714]

Off topic/trolling/arguing cleaned up.

Keep it on topic or warnings will be handed out.

 

[tkelly27]

If there are cold start problems with a stand alone, the only person at fault is yourself or your tuner. Our formula car started awesomely with it's stand alone, we didn't have a base map to start with either. "User friendly" is up to interpretation. I prefer having a big map with RPM on one axis and pressure on the other with pulsewidth in the cells, with another map with ignition timing and the same thing on the axes. Anything else is masking what is going on for me, and goes against being user friendly.

Anyway, I got edited. You have V2 already, and there is a DD 600hp car running V2 right here in this very thread, why not keep that?

 

[mikelv]

i thought SD was only for 1g's??! and even then it was still more or less a testing product...

my plans for aem were to have brad brooks come up my way and tune the car. i have talked with him on sever occasions, and he is more than qualified

but either way, i would probably have brooks tune v3 also. its just one thing i would rather not touch, just let the pro work his magic.

I can vouch for Brad man, one of the best out there. He's the only other peron I've ever let touch any of my cars. Really good dude, I'm sure he'll work with ya.

 

[twdorris]

i thought SD was only for 1g's??! and even then it was still more or less a testing product...

I just read that part of your post.

We don't release anything until we're *sure* it's working right to the absolute best of our ability. SD code took about a month to write and then another 4 months of testing! A few changes here and there were made during testing, but nothing significant. Mainly just changes to make it easier to use on a daily basis and easier to tune. If you haven't seen them already, here are a few pages you can read up about it all.

ECMLink SD Setup
Dialing in your VE table using your MAF sensor
Dialing in your VE table using fuel trim data

The dial in procedures REALLY make it cake to configure things. Even if you switch to SD immediately without a MAF sensor at all. But if you have a MAF sensor, even better! I just don't think you really need a professional tuner to help you out. It's just not what ECMLink is about.

but either way, i would probably have brooks tune v3 also. its just one thing i would rather not touch, just let the pro work his magic.

Brad is a great guy. Super nice, easy going, and as smart as you'll find. I even had him up to my house a few years back to assemble a short block for me. So I've got nothing against him at ALL.

But I really think you'll get more out of tuning the setup yourself. It's *really* not hard.

That's my 2 cents.

Thomas Dorris
ECMTuning, Inc.

 

[1sick91tsi]

Well Im running v2.5 with a very similar setup. 2.3, s362net, fp2s 33-34 psi on pump and meth. So far the car put down 574 whp and trapped 135 in the 1/4. I pesonally would stick with ecmlink. Much more user friendly, great forum support, always adding to the features and it just works. For a begining tuner aem can be hard.