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DSMlink Or AEM EMS??

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SpoolN

20+ Year Contributor
386
0
Jan 20, 2003
Coventry, Rhode_Island
We arent sure what engine management to run on our project gsx. As of right now we are in the process of getting SBRs stage 3 block with wiesco pistons, Oliver rods. We are also getting their stage 6 head, with ferrea valves, manley springs and retainers stage 6 port work... We are plannig on runnig either a 37r or a 42r. Fuel will be a feul cell and aermotive a1000 external pump... Car is going to rev to about 9000 rpms... Just need help on choosing what engine management to run..

Thanks
 
that big of a build, spring for the ems.....

dsmlink is nice and easy to set up but if your gonna be running massive boost on a purpose built drag car, its all about the AEM EMS
 
SpoolN said:
We arent sure what engine management to run on our project gsx. As of right now we are in the process of getting SBRs stage 3 block with wiesco pistons, Oliver rods. We are also getting their stage 6 head, with ferrea valves, manley springs and retainers stage 6 port work... We are plannig on runnig either a 37r or a 42r. Fuel will be a feul cell and aermotive a1000 external pump... Car is going to rev to about 9000 rpms... Just need help on choosing what engine management to run..

Thanks


Do some research on the A1000 and you'll most likely pass on it. It's not a very good pump.

There is a huge difference between a 37R and a 42R, if this is your first attempt at a race car, I wouldn't go too big.

As for engine management, it really depends on who's going to be tuning it and what options you need in an engine management system. Chances are you don't need half of the features that the AEM has, but the nice thing about it is there is a lot of room to grow if you ever need more from it.
 
GVR4592 said:
Do some research on the A1000 and you'll most likely pass on it. It's not a very good pump.

There is a huge difference between a 37R and a 42R, if this is your first attempt at a race car, I wouldn't go too big.

As for engine management, it really depends on who's going to be tuning it and what options you need in an engine management system. Chances are you don't need half of the features that the AEM has, but the nice thing about it is there is a lot of room to grow if you ever need more from it.


We want to run external pump.. what one would you recomend
 
A couple of thoughts.

I assume this is a gasoline motor as opposed to methanol (have to ask because more & more guys are switching over).

Considering what people have run already using the link, the only reason to use the AEM is if you need a specific feature. In terms of performance potential, both can get the job done. Even on an 8 injector methanol motor.

The fuel pump issue always seems to be a source for lively debate. If you believe what you read in D Sport Magazine, a Walbro 255 will support 700+whp :rolleyes:

Now, with that bit of humor out of the way, any of the big electrics will get the job done *up to a point*.

They still suffer from a drop in flow rate as pressure goes up. As long as the flow rate exceeds the demand at your max boost level they work fine. The problem is getting "real world" flow rate information. The "advertised" numbers are a bit *optimistic*.

If you want to avoid any issues, drop the electric pump and use a belt driven mechanical (Aeromotive, Barry Grant, Waterman). They cost more, take more work to install, but can provide high volumes of fuel at insane boost levels.

Hal
 
DSMunknown said:
Also keep in mind that DSM Link can only handle up to 880cc injectors (or is it a 1000cc? I can't remember). It sounds like you will be running larger than 880s. If that is the case, go with AEM.


Myself and others have 1600's and they seem to work just fine... odd. I guess we should take them out :rolleyes:
 
Hal said:
Myself and others have 1600's and they seem to work just fine... odd. I guess we should take them out :rolleyes:



I think I got my posted edited after you chose to quote me.
 
You can put whatever size fuel injectors in and the DSMLINK will work. When your ordering, let ECM TUNING know that you have say 1600 CC injectors and they make a DSMLINK CHIP just for you. I would go with the AEM EMS if its a race car, you have a lot more features. If its a street car, then dsmlink is perfectly fine.
 
As stated, the only thing you would need to consider is what options are you looking for?

DSMLink has quite a few options and have carried people a long ways. It's super easy to use compared to AEM EMS. AEM EMS can do just about anything "under the sun".

DSMLink = WOT tuning only, you will not have to worry about anything else except for injector compensation settings while in closed loop.

AEM EMS = you do it all. Sure there is base programs to get the car fired up, but you will still have to tweak it quite a bit.

The real question is "who's tuning it and what's their knowledge?".
 
If you know someone that is good with AEM then I say you should get that. Ive heard of so many people that have problems with just getting the car to idle on AEM. But then there is my mechanic who is a bad ass and can tune AEM as easy as an SAFC. He was born with a gift we always say, because he can get a solid off boost tune in about 10 min when Ive seen a shop take an hour to get a good idle.
 
Mmmm stages...(no further comment)

My advice would be to go for the DSMLink, you probably aren't ready for the AEM EMS.
 
DSMunknown said:
Wow. That's news to me.

With DSMLink all you're adjusting is WOT, under closed loop operation the only thing you have to worry about is injector compensation. Once that's done, you no longer have to do any tuning for closed loop operation (idle, cruise), hence the statement......... = WOT tuning only.

Plus that was a broad statement comparing 2 systems...........one that only needs work at WOT, and one that needs work in both closed loop (idle, cruise) and WOT.

Of course there are options that can be used with DSMLink, however, once again they're going to be used mainly during WOT.
 
So, as Jim has said, one needs to consider injector compensation under closed loop. Jim, could you explain why DSM Link is unable to do anything else in regards to idle? Are there simply different/more features with AEM's EMS when compared with DSM Link? Did the makers of DSM Link choose not to add such features because it is pointless for daily driven vehicles, or because there are other ways to alter the computer to see factory settings?
 
So, as Jim has said, one needs to consider injector compensation under closed loop. Jim, could you explain why DSM Link is unable to do anything else in regards to idle? Are there simply different/more features with AEM's EMS when compared with DSM Link? Did the makers of DSM Link choose not to add such features because it is pointless for daily driven vehicles, or because there are other ways to alter the computer to see factory settings?

DSMlink is a piggy back. It uses the stock fuel map while you are cruising. That is what makes it so easy to tune. When you go WOT thats when you settings really kick in. AEM is a standalone and you have to make the fuel maps from the ground up. You dont have any stock fuel map since the ecu is not there anymore.
 
JayRolla said:
DSMlink is a piggy back. It uses the stock fuel map while you are cruising. That is what makes it so easy to tune. When you go WOT thats when you settings really kick in. AEM is a standalone and you have to make the fuel maps from the ground up. You dont have any stock fuel map since the ecu is not there anymore.

Correct.

Although some have debated what DSMLink is (piggyback, stand alone, hybrid of the two), it runs off of an OEM ECU. You don't have to worry about closed loop (idle, cruise) operation as the Mitsubishi engineers have already done this for you. Injector compensation is all you need.

AEM EMS is a true stand alone and requires you to create everything from scratch. Although as stated, you should be able to find "base maps" readily enough for a "start up" tune. However, you will have to tweak that further.
 
JayRolla said:
DSMlink is a piggy back. It uses the stock fuel map while you are cruising. That is what makes it so easy to tune. When you go WOT thats when you settings really kick in. AEM is a standalone and you have to make the fuel maps from the ground up. You dont have any stock fuel map since the ecu is not there anymore.

FORMONTOYA said:
AEM EMS is a true stand alone and requires you to create everything from scratch. Although as stated, you should be able to find "base maps" readily enough for a "start up" tune. However, you will have to tweak that further.



So why isn't it the case that one could take those OEM maps from the ECU and (basically) copy the vital information into the AEM program? I understand that each car is different, but are they so different that similar settings could not be used?


A hypothetical:
If John Smith has DSM Link properly installed into one of his DSMs, is he able to read all of the OEM maps on the laptop? If so, then wouldn't he be able to use those readings to allow for base settings for his other DSM that has the AEM EMS system?
 
The stock computers tables will always try to optimize the fuel to burn at 14:1 with 450cc injectors and will do so not considering any mods that may have been performed in closed loop. If you have modded your car at all your efficiency ranges are going to be totally different and you may not want your car to try to go to a 14:1 a/f because a 13:1 lets the car run better (depending on gas, compression ratio, quench shape/area, etc.). Also, there are things that need to be adjusted in the AEM that you cannot just pull off of the ECU such as microbit sec for the injectors.

I run the AEM EMS, if I attempted to run the settings that are stored in the stock ECU, my car probably wouldn't start or run correctly.

Forgot to add: One of the benefits over the stock ECU and DSMLink is the ability to adjust dwell time on the coils (for one thing). Being able to do things such as this will allow you to better tune your car for certain mods such as COP in this instance. Copying files over from DSMlink or the stock ecu wouldn't help you in this area or a few others that I could come up with.
 
This car is going to be mostly run on the track... It is gonna see very little street use. The motor that we are going to be running is slowboys best head and short block... We are going to be using a gt42r. And the car is going to only see race gas. 110 and up...

We ourselves would not know where to start trying to tune ems.. That is why if we went that route we would have someone tune the car for us..
 
AEM gives you the one biggest advantage that dsm link DOES NOT. Full control of timing in every cell allowing you to properly tune the car along with the fuel and almost anything you can imagine, I run one personally.


After becoming a certified EFI tuner with engine management systems I would also like to add.
If your looking for something with similar functions I would also recommend a haltech, motec, etc.
 
You can do a lot more with the AEM EMS, but if you have to hire someone to tune it for you, you will need to figure out if the added expense (it won't be cheap) is worth the added benefits. You can tune DSMLink yourself with very little effort, plus they have a forum that will answer just about any question you may have.

I personally would rather tune myself........my 0.02.


Although I will point out that with DSMLink you do have control of timing independent of fuel at various RPM points (every 500RPM). So it's not as bad as say a SAFC where fuel control effects timing.
 
Well with everything said DSMlink has put many people into 10's with no problems, if you expect to build anything better I would say go AEM. There are a few with dsmlink in the 9's too I think.
 
FORMONTOYA said:
Correct.

Although some have debated what DSMLink is (piggyback, stand alone, hybrid of the two), it runs off of an OEM ECU. You don't have to worry about closed loop (idle, cruise) operation as the Mitsubishi engineers have already done this for you. Injector compensation is all you need.

AEM EMS is a true stand alone and requires you to create everything from scratch. Although as stated, you should be able to find "base maps" readily enough for a "start up" tune. However, you will have to tweak that further.

This is news to me as I always thought DSMlink was standalone. In that case, I think I'm swayed to go with Stage 3 Keydiver since it's cheaper.

However, if I went standalone, based on what you're saying I think I'd rather have Apexi Power FC w/Commander over other standalones since you can get it with 2G maps. Problem is, last I checked there was only one shop nationwide that is Apexi certified to install/tune it -- no english instructions. However, when I was in Japan the FC was among the most popular EMS around for anything from silvias, to skylines, to supras.
 
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