DSMLink v3 vs AEM EMS (Merged)

[FluidKaos]

So, here's the deal. I've got a '93 Talon Tsi who's ECU has finaly given up the ghost (capacitors went out after 18 years). I had ECMLink v3 installed on it before, and loved it, although I wish I had more inputs. Now that my ECU is shot, up comes the question: upgrade to AEM EMS2, or find a "new" ECU and v3 chip?

To give you guys an idea of where I am, and where I'm headed, I've got a lightly moded 1g with a big 16g, all new fuel system (including Wally 255, FIC 550c injectors, Fuel Lab FPR, etc) ETS street FMIC, 3" downpipe and exhaust, and a few other odds and ends right now.
I plan on swapping to a 2.4l 4g64 DOHC w/ man/trans swap at the same time, (that is when I get the time) and was soon to swap to speed density (have all the sensors and cables ready) had my ECU not fried.

Performance plans aren't too grand. Just a DD'able track (street or strip) ready car, although it won't be my DD, but my weekend car.

Given what I've got, and am going for, money not considered, what would you have? Any thoughts, ideas, or suggestions are more than welcome.

 

[Absit]

EMS is a LOT of power for what you're doing with your car, it's excessive. That's all there really is to say here. I wouldn't even drop the cash on Link with the other options for 1Gs out there.

 

[RvlutionMtrsprt]

You shouldn't need a new ECMLink chip. I'd just send the ECU/chip to ECMLink and let them repair/replace it.

 

[agentorange313]

ECMlink v3 was the first purchase on my stock 1g AWD, it was the best purchase I made. I went from stock to what you see in my profile and was able to compensate for everything with ecmlink, not to mention get my idle corrected.....a car with good idle all the time is close to life with no problems . Ecmlink might also be more user friendly if you are unfamiliar with tuning or need to learn the basics.

I have never used AEM EMS, but I cant justify forking out close to a 1000 bucks for an ecu on my car. I am sure its great system and has unlimited potential but its more then the internals in my bottom end.

Like Absit said, there are definitely other options for your goals. you can use a piggyback with those mods. AEM EMS and link both offer the option to grow though, keep that in mind. For example you can upgrade to 1000cc injectors now, and can compensate for that injector size (keep in mind you also need supporting mods: pumps, AFPR), you can now potential reach any future goals you have.

-goodluck

 

[icemanracing]

Think about your long term goals if you plan on big power later do the AEM ems now that way you are not buying a tuning system twice or more. Everything in the AEM system can work with the mods you have now and as you grow the computer is already there. I don't know your budget but I would say if you can swing it i would buy the Right system for the plans you have in the long run.

 

[TSimage]

Neither.. Run Jackal.

 

[hubz91talontsi]

Motec!

 

[JrCRXHF]

I went with the AEM EMS i am running 1000cc injectors pump and other supporting mods i wanted the speed density and ability to change between e-85 and pump gas easy because my wife drives the car more then i do.

The serial gauge is a nice option too.

 

[FluidKaos]

Thanks for the responses guys. I guess I'm trying to figure out if I should continue my "it's broke, may as well upgrade" path, and switch to EMS, or keep Link. I know that Link can fill all of my needs for future use of the car, but I'm curious about what the EMS2 can take on from the 'wants' column. I just don't know enough about it to make an informed decision. That's it, I want to make an informed decision.

You shouldn't need a new ECMLink chip. I'd just send the ECU/chip to ECMLink and let them repair/replace it.

I may end up doing that, or at least getting a junkyard spare, even if I do end up getting the EMS2. It would be cheaper, I'm sure, than renting a truck and trailer to haul it a few hours out for tuning. Without an ECU, the car doesn't move well and I don't feel confident enough in my home tuning skills just yet to create a base map for the EMS2 to be able to drive it to a shop for proper tuning.

Think about your long term goals if you plan on big power later do the AEM ems now that way you are not buying a tuning system twice or more. Everything in the AEM system can work with the mods you have now and as you grow the computer is already there. I don't know your budget but I would say if you can swing it i would buy the Right system for the plans you have in the long run.

That is the key, isn't it. Finding the right system. Right now my end goal is to be in the ballpark of 500hp once everything is said and done. Who knows, I may get there and decide I want more. That's why I'm kinda leaning toward getting an EMS2. The future could hold anything.

 

[RadDsm]

99% of people on this board don't need AEM EMS. ECMLink v3 is more than capable or tuning 1000whp cars.

Repair yours or find a new ECU and continue to use V3 since you already have it.

 

[ramsack]

I still don't understand why people say an EMS is overkill. You can actually have your injectors and ignition run sequentially, you can use an input for an ethanol content sensor so you don't have to do anything if you mix in a weird amount of gas vs. ethanol. You can target a specific AFR with a wideband without having to simulate a narrowband. Multiple people making raw power in a straight line seems to be the biggest argument for DSMLink. There is also Megasquirt, which is more capable than either and cheaper than either in the end, with online support being MS > Link > AEM.

 

[FluidKaos]

Yeah, support is one of the big down sides to AEM I'm finding. I've just started looking into the MegaSquirt. Although the support is there, building the thing seems like a pain. I do plan to eventually strip and rewire the car for a wire tuck, and get rid of some of the stuff that is not in use, so I guess building and wiring in Squirt isn't that big of a pain, just a pain I hadn't considered.

 

[ramsack]

You have the electrical knowledge to rewire a car but assembling a PCB is a pain? SMD stuff is a pain, but through-hole is easy. Their new SMD Megasquirt looks dumb.

DIYPNP Nippon Denso 52pin Unassembled Kit DIYAutoTune.com

DIYPNP Sequential Injection Kit DIYAutoTune.com

$425 + $38 for something >= AEM isn't a bad deal, especially when there is room for almost endless expansion.

 

[FluidKaos]

I have no doubts I can solder up the PCB (I socketed my ECU for link, among other things) it's just tedious work with tiny parts is all. It's defiantly worth looking further into, thanks for bringing it up.

 

[ramsack]

And the support goes a lot further than just "post up a DSMLink log"

 

[icemanracing]

If there is something i cant figure out on my AEM I can send my tune to a guy that i know with a log and he will tell me how to fix it or just fix it for me and send it back how ever i choose.

 

[Imback]

Again like most other responses. A full standalone IS overkill for your set up and possibly your future goals. And please don't base dsmlink support on just post a log responses seen on here. There forum has a wealth on knowledge and everyone is helpful. I would just get another ecu (50-100$) and re socket it and call it a day. Dsmlink is made for our car's so there is no base map that need's to be made. Simple plug and play and is user friendly. Aem and other standalones require a base map and are more complex to get your car running right. 85% of people who have aem and other don't even use it to it's full potential. So if your not going to use it to it's full potential that whats the point?

 

[ramsack]

People use everything they buy to the full potential? Surely there are people out there who don't use every single feature DSMLink has to offer yet AEM or even MS is a waste of money because it's built from ground-up, can do more things, and is fully functional, rather than have areas of ECU that are unknown or not figured out how to implement? The potential that an EMS offers is usually more bits for mapping sensors, which is a HUGE advantage for people who want to squeeze out every bit of throttle response and efficiency they want.

People spend gobs of money on things like computers for gaming or other kind of calculation performance, yet they don't use 100% of their system resources 100% of the time. When the category of use of "most of the time" they could get away with owning some crappy little netbook.

 

[Imback]

The potential that an EMS offers is usually more bits for mapping sensors, which is a huge advantage for people "WHO" want to squeeze out every bit of throttle response and efficiency they want.

Exactly!!

"Most" users will never see that. "Most" users won't even be able to get it to work properly. Like i said before most people who have ems's don't use it to it's full potential. And for your question about people who buy products and don't use it to there full potential then that is there problem and not mine. I surely won't be using my blu ray player to play dvd's. To each is own though.

 

[ramsack]

Which is why MOST people get Link or some other half-assed back-engineered product (just my opinion of trying to make our ECU a standalone.) Every time someone asks about an EMS everyone just assumes that they won't take the time to tune it to its full potential, and everyone jumps all over them and tells them "you aren't going to do shit with your car, just get Link" and it pisses me off. People come looking for answers about products, not bashing of products because they're not made by people in our community or the technology doesn't originate from Normal, IL. Only a few people on here offered REAL advice, everything else was just "anything ≠ DSMLink = a waste" or "because $ EMS > $ Link, EMS = a waste".

 

[RadDsm]

Ramsack, do you use either of those tuning products?

 

[ramsack]

Here we go, just because I can't afford to buy these things for MY OWN car means I have zero experience with anything in the world. I have worked with Link. I don't care for it. I also think AEM is overpriced which is why I recommended MS. It's just a damn microcontroller that takes a signal, processes it, and has an output. It's nothing special in the field of electronics. The only special thing about it is that the mathematic units in the software to program it all are based around the automotive field.

All my point is is that everyone bashes something that's not based on our ECU just because they themselves can't learn how to do something more advanced.

 

[RadDsm]

I never meant to imply that you were too poor to afford it or that you had no experience with them. I was just curious on where you've formed your opinions, versus people who have used both products.

There is no reason for someone to waste more money for a product just because it has more features that you won't use. In the case of someone not needing all these features and not wanting to waste more money, ECMLink > AEM EMS. If you want something that is easy to setup, install, tune, and that has great customer and tech support, ECMLink > AEM EMS and MS. If you want something to build yourself and you need more than what ECMLink offers, then get AEM or MS.

But we all know that ECMLink will work for the majority of people. You don't have to try to make a case for other tuning platforms, just because. ECMLink is better for the average DSMer in most cases and situations.

 

[skatershawn]

Yes but if you read his goals, its clear that he most likely WONT use it to its fullest!
IMO i wouldn't spend that type of money if DSMLink can fulfill my needs in tuning!
I plan on getting v3 lite which is $375 and thats all i need, its been proven to get people up and beyond their goals. So again IMO AEM for me isn't worth the money!
Im not saying i wouldn't try it out if i have the cash to blow but my overall needs can be meet with v3!

But to the OP.. if you want to try something new.. try it!
I wouldn't just replace the caps on the ecu and clean up the board... i saw $50 vs $800+ for AEM.. sorry money is a huge factor for me!

but correct, to each their own.. Give AEM a try if you really fill like it and let us know you experiance!

good luck with you decision!

 

[ramsack]

And the OP WAS ASKING about more features. He obviously wants to have the power to expand and do more things for the future, so why recommend doing something twice? If I were to even want to do something as simple as run E85 in my car I would even go right to an EMS of some kind over Link, so I wouldn't have to have tons of maps for every 5-10% difference in ethanol content.