AEM EMS vs. MAFTpro

[v8s_are_slow]

I bought the AEM EMS but wondering how long it's gonna take me to get this thing working and working correctly and effeciently. Everyone on here says to get it, but on the AEM forum, there's a bunch of the guys saying it's not for a novice, etc. etc.

I can already tell that this thing will take me some time to figure out.

So here's my questions, if both of these systems are speed density, why would AEM EMS be all that much better than the MAFTpro? I have a laptop, have the AEM wideband, my piping will be here soon that's setup for a IAT sensor, have a 3.5 bar map sensor, and so my setup could go either way. EMS or MAFTpro.

My mods will be T-67, FFWD level 4 head, 2.3 stroker with 8.8:1 compression, extrememotorsports SMIM, Comp 101400 cams, etc. etc. Lot of the bigger mods.

What's better about the AEM EMS over the MAFTpro? What exactly are the differences in each. Wouldn't the MAFtpro be easier and faster for me to tune with and still do about the same thing? I'm wondering if I should just sell my EMS and get the pro if it's as good as I'm hearing. Dsmlink doesn't have speed density. Dunno if I should keep my EMS or what. Everyone around me seems to have Dsmlink. No one with an EMS to help me out. Feedback???
Thanks!

Scott

 

['98 AWD DSM]

I have it. It is def. involved and you need a lottt of patience. If you get it your best bt would be having a profesional tune it for you. Once it is running correctly though it is amazing. I am on a kinda base map right now, running very rich, but as I said once it is tuned its great.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

You're saying you have the EMS? Everyone tells me I should let a professional tune it. That's all fine and dandy but I still wouldn't know how to use it. And the manual for the thing is like 217 pages I think. There's another link I clicked on to read that's a lotta pages too. I have no clue what they're even talking about for most of the parameters that I'm suppose to setup in the thing.

I'm reading over the MAFTpro's pages just to get a lil info on it and so far it seems WAY easier and still running speed density. But I'm wondering what the EMS has that'd make it so great that the MAFTpro wouldn't have. I know I wanna be able to have adjustment over my idle and still have my stutterbox. Easy tunability would be a plus. Not sure what to use at this point in time. Keep my EMS or use the pro?

 

['98 AWD DSM]

What kind of map are you running, just a base whatever? have you tried a log with it yet? I started out by focusing on one area at a time, like fuel first then timin, I still dont know a lotta stuff it can do.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

I don't have the car running yet. It's almost done. Have new EVERYTHING going into it. Before I can even use it, I'll have to throw back in my old piping with gm maf and translator because I can't start up the car with the EMS without knowing my timing and fuel pressure, etc. Which of course I won't know all that since everything is new. I gave gm maf and pipes to a buddy of mine which I'll have to borrow back for a day just to get it running. But needless to say, if I keep the EMS I'd have a LOT to learn.

Looks like with the pro, you just punch in what you have (ie. size injectors you have, 3.5 bar map, iat, etc. etc.) and then just run it, log it, tune it by riching it or leaning it out and playing with your timing and stuff. You can use an AEM wideband with it...which I have. Still not sure what features it doesn't have that the EMS has though other than maybe it being easier to tune

 

[Joesmoke]

MAFT pro requires stock ecu-eprom + keydiver chip to adjust timing.

It also has no knock setup.

Timing and knock are big keys to making power.

If it were me, I would just spend the time learning the AEM (espcially since you have it already). Might take a while to get your head around it, but you'll be a better person in the long run.

I am trying to learn the AEM before purchase, and do understand that it can be complicated.

Dont forget, once the basics are setup on the AEM (idle etc), you are going to be tuning with fuel, timing and knock primarily. Thats the same you would do with any other EMS, except the others wont do knock.

My 2 cents.

 

[XakEp]

Thats the same you would do with any other EMS, except the others wont do knock.

The folks at DSMlink would like to have a word with you about that statement.

 

[44pirate]

MAFT pro requires stock ecu-eprom + keydiver chip to adjust timing.

It also has no knock setup.

Timing and knock are big keys to making power.

If it were me, I would just spend the time learning the AEM (espcially since you have it already). Might take a while to get your head around it, but you'll be a better person in the long run.

I am trying to learn the AEM before purchase, and do understand that it can be complicated.

Dont forget, once the basics are setup on the AEM (idle etc), you are going to be tuning with fuel, timing and knock primarily. Thats the same you would do with any other EMS, except the others wont do knock.

My 2 cents.

Misinformation here is that you do log knock with your logger in conjuction with MAFTPRO.
Link also logs knock.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

If it were me, I would just spend the time learning the AEM (espcially since you have it already). Might take a while to get your head around it, but you'll be a better person in the long run.

Well, I work during the day, school at night, have my daughter every other weekend and at the moment, the weekends I don't have my daughter I'm working on my car. If the man upstairs could give me the time, sure thing. But with my schedule and as hard as the AEM is looking to figure out (not to mention the time it takes just to read the manual), it'll be 3 or 4 years before that's done.

 

[Joesmoke]

Sorry people, not trying to spread misinformation..heres my defence:

My comments were supposed to be AEM vs MAFT-pro. Link was not taken into account. I made a blanket statement that was not entirely accurate.

My main issue with knock is not just the ability to log it (almost everything does that)
but:
1.the ability to fine tune the sensor (not in maft-pro)
2.the ability to make a variety of adjustments in response to knock

Once again, this is reference to the 2 items that the original poster mentioned.

My other point was to be that with maft-pro, to adjust timing, you may or may not have to add an eprom ecu + chip into the equation.

It sounds like you really are not going to be able to find the time for AEM. Personally, I think your selling yourself short, but....a piggy back system may be better.

 

[44pirate]

Well, I work during the day, school at night, have my daughter every other weekend and at the moment, the weekends I don't have my daughter I'm working on my car. If the man upstairs could give me the time, sure thing. But with my schedule and as hard as the AEM is looking to figure out (not to mention the time it takes just to read the manual), it'll be 3 or 4 years before that's done.

I know where your coming from.

I opted for the MAFPRO because the AEM looked to intense. I didn't want to have to pay someone else to tune it. Time money I didn't want to spend. Hopefully I can finally get everything running in the next 2 weeks.

 

[Joesmoke]

Have you seen the ecuplus? It something that isnt talked alot about, but I think it is a very good piggyback. Lets hit the highlights:
www.ecuplus.com

Ability to control timing
Ability to control fuel
**Will integrate gm maf**
injector scaling
logs widebands
comprehensive graphing/overlays
software dynoplots (has limitations I know, but could be useful)

So, you log, you adjust fuel via your wideband feedback. Log knock, adjust fuel and timing accordingly. This may be the route I go, prior to standalone (if ever required)

Check it out.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

That doesn't have speed density. You oughta do a search on it. The only one's I'm aware of are the EMS and MAFTpro. Speed density totally gets rid of any MAF/MAS.

44pirate, how long did it take ya to set it up? Are you running speed density mode on yours? Can you give more feedback? I also posted another thread on the MAFTpro forum with most of my questions there.

 

[Joesmoke]

Did I ever say it did speed density??

Im aware it doesnt do speed density. I was trying to give you another option.
I didnt realize speed density was critical.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Yep, it's critical....to me anyway.

 

[44pirate]

That doesn't have speed density. You oughta do a search on it. The only one's I'm aware of are the EMS and MAFTpro. Speed density totally gets rid of any MAF/MAS.

44pirate, how long did it take ya to set it up? Are you running speed density mode on yours? Can you give more feedback? I also posted another thread on the MAFTpro forum with most of my questions there.

I'm going straight speed density. No maf. I'm waiting on a TB elbow. I have not yet started it up with the MAFPRO. I went with the boost controller, wideband and also installing meth injection kit. I learning just like you. After having great success from their MAFT both in my 2g (11.79@119mph) and this 1g, I'm impressed with some of EVO's in Orlando that are using the MAFPRO, I believe this will be a piece of cake to dial in

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Well, SBR isn't gonna take back my EMS (understand though since I opened it...so I could load the cd onto my computer). Guess I'll put it up on the tuners classifieds for cheaper than I bought it. See if I have any takers. If so, I'll be running the MAFTpro, if not, it looks like I'll be struggling for awhile.

 

[98eclipseRS]

If all you are looking for is speed density plus some tunning control out of your system then get the mafpro, if you want a serious tunning device that can handle anything and then some stick with AEM. The things it can log/tune/do is out of this world. You have built it 2step/antilag, boost control, traction contro, knock control. You have complete control over timming, and fuel. You can set it up to use auxilary injectors if you need the extra fuel for wot but not for just cruising. You can use it to control nitrous/meth/water injection and even all of them at the same time. If you want to run more than 32 pouns of boost you have the ability to run a 5bar map sensor. These are just the tip of the iceburg as for what it can do. Honestly if you have spent as much money as you have on your turbo/motor why not go for one of the best in your engine management? I am not trying to say that the mafpro is not a good system for tunning I just think in the long run you would be happier with AEM than you would with the mafpro.

 

[Mark90gst]

the aem ems is the way to go. You already have a 3.5 bar aem map sensor which is trick because it will save you set up time with your car since the stock map is set up for a 3.5 bar map, which means you dont have to re-map the ignition and fuel maps for the different sensors. The aem ems is not that hard to get it running on at all. To get it to run good takes some time, but I see you have a aem wideband which is needed. You can wire it into your ems, auto map for your afr, to get a good tune just for diving around. You can log, set up all the engines limites so easy, but it does take time. If you go with the ems and you want a map to start your car just email me or something, i will set it all up for your map, ait, injectors, etc, etc. I got the basics down i guess

 

[Mark90gst]

V8 are slow man, i see you already have the ems, wire that thing up, it is a very easy job, and I will help you make a map to get that thing on the road, go to the ems website and download v1.11 firmware, load it up, and you can have that thing running fast.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Okay, for an example, here's a screen shot of JUST the boost control page on the AEM. You'd think it'd be simple right? I don't know what all those values are suppose to be for. And if I have to ask what's suppose to be what for everything I click on, it's gonna take me forever. There's a 217 page user manual, 52 page manual on EFI basics, and a 25 page just on how to use the logger. I'm the type of guy that takes me 3 or 4 times or more just to read something when it's of a technical nature just to try and comprehend what it's saying (which is really annoying to me).

I don't see myself needing traction control or nitrous, etc. For a 3rd of the price I can get the MAFTpro with speed density and a dsmchip. I can have my 2-step, timing control, boost control, logging capabilities, etc. I can run the 3.5 bar map sensor, IAT sensors, and AEM wideband that I already have with this setup. Less to read, easier for me to figure out, and get my car going maybe within a few hours instead of....uh, who knows how long. It took me a week just to figure out what to do because the AEM didn't have my injector size listed. If I have simple problems like this, I can't afford to not know what to do. Come on this forum and people tell me to get AEM. Get on the AEM forum and people say it's not for a novice and get something else. I can't win

I've also tried to get an AEM specific section under the tuning section so it won't take so long to get answers and such, but can't get that either.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[Mark90gst]

The map that you have up is the boost map, to use the aem boost map, you need to wire in a gm bcs into the stock harness where the stock bcs is hooked up. Then you need to hook the vacuum lines up the way the users manual says if you have an extrenal or internal waste gate set up. Then by that why the manual will tell you what setting for the waste gate either n.o. or n.c. setting. Run the wizard on the wate gate and thats is. The numbers inthe cell map is when the waste gate will open. You just change that whole group until you get the correct boost, not a big deal. Why was the injector sizing such a problem for you?j/w. I love my aem ems, would never do any thing else.

 

[dsm-onster]

You want to run a Speed density set up then it will take time to tune. No matter what system you choose. You simply must, MUST take the time to determine your Volumetric Efficiency at every rpm point you can tune using what ever tuning apparatus you have.

If you want fast tuning and "plug and play" you should have gone with the link since you obviously had the money for AEM EMS. Otherwise you should have speed density out of your mind if you want to tune quickly. You mentioned that all your friends have Link!!! That should have counted for something. If you want to go for a quick tune, tune you AEM with a MAS or get link. Link is the FASTEST!!! but AEM is plent quick using a mas. But you HAVE to use a mas to tune quick. AND every time you upgrade ANYTHING, you'll have to retune ANY speed density setup! The only advantage between a speed density and a maf setup is the airflow restrictions and blowthru option. But if you get MAFT or wait for link to come out with GM MAF direct-plug-in then you'll have the blow thu option, and the losses that the gm maf offers in blowthru is not noticable.

So I say wait for link to come out with gm maf translation and, in the mean time, quickly tune with aem using a MAF. And be happy. MAF controled setups have gotten folkes into the 8.XX. I will give you the deed to my house if you do that!!!

 

[v8s_are_slow]

As for the injectors, I have FIC 1000's. Those aren't listed and when I try to change it manually, it comes up with a box that has nothing in it that I was suppose to choose something from. Took me a week cause no one was answering my question on the AEM forum telling me what to do. Didn't know I could use Precision (since the manual said to stick with the same injectors manufacturer).

Anyway, AEM won't take it back, SBR won't take it back, so if it doesn't sell I won't have to worry about it anyway and I'll be having to figure this thing out regardless. As for my setup, I seriously doubt I'll have to upgrade anything after it's built.

About the boost map (like the fuel map), the box with all the numbers in it...how do I know what numbers I'm suppose to be dealing with out of all the ones in there? Sorry, haven't gotten that far into the manual yet. Guess I better start doing some more reading.

 

[Quasimondo]

So I say wait for link to come out with gm maf translation and, in the mean time, quickly tune with aem using a MAF. And be happy. MAF controled setups have gotten folkes into the 8.XX. I will give you the deed to my house if you do that!!!

Depending on how much he sells the AEM for, he can get both the DSMLink and the translator. If I'm not mistaken, when setting up the DSMLink, it would be set as an unhacked 1G MAS and the translator would remain zeroed out.