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Street Build Drag Week 2G DSM - 8 Second Street Car

Rating:
5/5,
Year:
1995
Model/Trim:
Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
Please Support STM Tuned
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  1. Got Grip

    Got Grip Proven Member

    160
    117
    Joined Sep 17, 2002
    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    It's taking me longer than I thought to go through all the pictures and organize things but I promise a lot of updates this week.
     

    Street Build 2K  1

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    9.99 @ 148 · 2G DSM

    3K  7

    2008 4G63 Dragster
    6.474 @ 210.18 · 4G63t Swapped

    2K  17

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    10.03 @ 148 · 1G DSM
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  2. Got Grip

    Got Grip Proven Member

    160
    117
    Joined Sep 17, 2002
    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    Okay, so rewinding a bit here. The engine was mostly assembled above but I needed to get the camshaft tapped for the 2G CAS. Martin from RX4Speed tapped my Kelford cam for me and I was in business.


    I degreed the cams:

    IMG_9331-768x1024.jpg

    IMG_9332-768x1024.jpg

    Then I decided to mount the turbo to get some awesome pictures of it.

    IMG_9419-1024x768.jpg

    IMG_9431-937x1024.jpg

    IMG_9426-768x1024.jpg

    There were some parts delays with my new Auto trans and I was running low on time so I decided to put the engine in the car with my dogbox just so I could get started on the wiring and plumbing. There were some items I couldn’t finalize without the auto but I needed to start making forward progress, so in goes the engine with the dogbox.

    IMG_9443-1024x768.jpg

    IMG_9445-1024x768.jpg

    IMG_9448-1024x768.jpg

    IMG_9450-1024x768.jpg

    IMG_9453-1024x768.jpg

    IMG_9454-1024x768.jpg

    IMG_9466-1024x768.jpg

    Closeup of the Kiggly HLA because... why not?

    IMG_9463-1024x768.jpg
     

    Street Build 2K  1

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    9.99 @ 148 · 2G DSM

    3K  7

    2008 4G63 Dragster
    6.474 @ 210.18 · 4G63t Swapped

    2K  17

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    10.03 @ 148 · 1G DSM
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  3. Got Grip

    Got Grip Proven Member

    160
    117
    Joined Sep 17, 2002
    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    Wiring… This is going to be a long post. I have a love/hate relationship with wiring. I’m decent at it, but I’m incredibly slow at it and I strongly dislike doing it. I’ve also found it costs a fortune to do it correctly but at this point I have all the tools, including a shrink sleeve label maker and Deutsch crimper so doing more wiring jobs isn’t too bad. Don’t ask me to build you a wiring harness though, you can’t pay me enough.

    This post is going to be more a wiring and electronics post. I’ll post more about the DBW setup in the next post but pretty much everything else electrical will be here.

    The core electronics in the car are:

    Haltech Elite 2500T ECU

    Forced Four Smart 100.1 Shift Box

    Race Technologies Dash2Pro dash (8gb data logging, 3 axis accelerometers, GPS, etc)

    Haltech CAN wideband

    Haltech CAN hub

    Dynatek ARC II (debating going M&W)

    300M Coils

    Assorted Haltech Pressure and Temperature Sensors – I can go more into what all I’m logging later if anyone asks.

    Haltech Premium long flying lead harness

    Amazon switch panel with USB and Cigarette lighter ports

    Stock Mitsubishi fuse box and chassis harness

    Raychem DR-25 sleeving

    Primarily Duetsch DT/DTM/DTP connectors

    Most of this post is just going to be pictures, I’ll add quick comments to what I’m showing in them if I think it needs explanation. Otherwise, please ask!

    Random parts assortment. You can see here that the Dash is a reuse from the dragster. We switched the dragster to the new AEM CD5 color dash for some added features it has. Both cars run the Haltech Elite 2500.

    IMG_9653-1024x768.jpg

    IMG_9727-1024x768.jpg

    Haltech mounted in the passenger foot-well

    IMG_9732-1024x768.jpg

    Getting started, it looks like a mess

    IMG_9652-1024x768.jpg

    IMG_9753-1024x768.jpg

    IMG_9752-1024x768.jpg

    IMG_9777-1024x768.jpg

    IMG_9781-1024x768.jpg

    IMG_0180-1024x768.jpg

    IMG_9782-1024x768.jpg

    Primary and Secondary injector wiring

    IMG_0201-1024x768.jpg

    Dash mounted

    IMG_9851-1024x1024.jpg

    IMG_9925-1024x768.jpg

    IMG_0428-1024x768.jpg

    Switch Panel

    IMG_0259-1024x768.jpg

    IMG_0445-1024x768.jpg

    IMG_0226-1024x768.jpg





    And I’m going to hold off on “Finished” wiring pictures because that will give away the finished car. I’ll post more this week.
     

    Street Build 2K  1

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    9.99 @ 148 · 2G DSM

    3K  7

    2008 4G63 Dragster
    6.474 @ 210.18 · 4G63t Swapped

    2K  17

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    10.03 @ 148 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  4. bling5tatus

    bling5tatus Proven Member

    1,309
    96
    Joined Sep 23, 2005
    DFW/Austin, Texas
    Nice post. I'm definitely interested in hearing more about what you're logging and how you set up your DBW throttle..... and which DBW throttle you're using..... also, what features of the DBW throttle made you want to use it.
     

    2K  0

    1989 Dodge Colt GT
    manual · 4G63t Swapped

    Street Build 2K  1

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 1G DSM
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  5. familyMAN

    familyMAN Proven Member

    174
    114
    Joined Dec 6, 2011
    Saint Anthony, Indiana
    How do you like the 100.1 shift box?

    Too bad you couldn't complete the week, but I'm sure it will motivate you for next year.
     

    8K  12  11

    1992 3000GT VR4
    rwd · automatic · 3000GT/Stealth
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  6. Got Grip

    Got Grip Proven Member

    160
    117
    Joined Sep 17, 2002
    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    The 100.1 is amazing. I hooked up just a couple wires to get started and used their handheld shift controller and was able to drive and shift the car in a matter of minutes. Then adding the rest of the wiring and I have tons of control and options. It’s super easy to use and ultra configurable. Shawn and Jess that make them are also a huge help.

    For logging I have the following sensors:
    Wideband
    Gas Fuel Pressure
    E98 Fuel Pressure
    Oil Pressure
    Oil temp
    Trans temp
    5 bar map sensor IAT

    then all the standard sensors (vss, RPM, etc)

    I also have GPS and 6G 3 Axis accelerometers in the dash that I can log.

    I’m planning on adding (maybe this winter):
    4 EGT’s
    Coolant pressure
    Crank case pressure
    Exhaust back pressure

    The DBW stuff I’ll do a more detailed write up on one night this week. But I ended up with a GM gas pedal and Bosch throttle body with Haltech doing all the control. The main reason for wanting to go DBW was ultimate star up, idle and drivability. The added bonus is in the future I can get into traction control and whatnot if I want. Probably a bigger advantage with the dogbox.
     

    Street Build 2K  1

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    9.99 @ 148 · 2G DSM

    3K  7

    2008 4G63 Dragster
    6.474 @ 210.18 · 4G63t Swapped

    2K  17

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    10.03 @ 148 · 1G DSM
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    1990TSIAWDTALON and bling5tatus like this.
  7. bling5tatus

    bling5tatus Proven Member

    1,309
    96
    Joined Sep 23, 2005
    DFW/Austin, Texas
    Very nice. Can you talk more about why you have pressure sensors for 2 different fuel types? Do you have two reservoirs in the car for different fuels?
     

    2K  0

    1989 Dodge Colt GT
    manual · 4G63t Swapped

    Street Build 2K  1

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 1G DSM
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  8. Got Grip

    Got Grip Proven Member

    160
    117
    Joined Sep 17, 2002
    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    I’ll be doing a more detailed post on this soon also but the car has two fuel systems. The stock tank, walbro 450 and FIC650’s on 93 octane. Then a smallish fuel cell, twin Bosch 044 pumps and FIC 2150’s in E98. Under boost, the Haltech phases in the 2150’s and matches duty cycle so I basically run about E70 (need to redo the math for my injector sizes and fuel pressure) but I can fill up at any pump anywhere. It’s sort of like methanol injection but on steroids and way more reliable and tunable. Oh and ethanol instead of methanol. :)
     

    Street Build 2K  1

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    9.99 @ 148 · 2G DSM

    3K  7

    2008 4G63 Dragster
    6.474 @ 210.18 · 4G63t Swapped

    2K  17

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    10.03 @ 148 · 1G DSM
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    import solutions and bling5tatus like this.
  9. miguelmcv

    miguelmcv Proven Member

    2,062
    57
    Joined May 3, 2009
    Fresno, California
    So are you managing both 8 injectors with the same ECU (Haltech 2500) for both type of fuel?

    I’m planning to use the Haltech 1500 but if the 2500 can manage two different set of injectors with different fuel then I might get the 2500 instead so I can run 91 and e85 mixed with different injectors.
     

    Street Build 172  1

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM

    2K  0

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    manual · 2G DSM
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  10. Got Grip

    Got Grip Proven Member

    160
    117
    Joined Sep 17, 2002
    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    I am managing 8 injectors but the Haltech doesn’t know they are a different fuel. I tell Haltech I’m on gas, then I calculated the effective injector size for my secondaries on e98 as if they are on gas (basically just 2150 * 8.98/14.7). I use my actual flow rates at increased pressure but that gives you the idea. AFR’s worked out really close on first attempt using this method.

    I know it’s more money but if getting a Haltech I’d recommend spending the money on a 2500 right off the bat. It just gives you more expansion options and you can wire the secondaries to a connector to add them if you decide later. I can get you Haltech pricing also if you’re interested.
     

    Street Build 2K  1

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    9.99 @ 148 · 2G DSM

    3K  7

    2008 4G63 Dragster
    6.474 @ 210.18 · 4G63t Swapped

    2K  17

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    10.03 @ 148 · 1G DSM
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  11. bling5tatus

    bling5tatus Proven Member

    1,309
    96
    Joined Sep 23, 2005
    DFW/Austin, Texas
    ^^I'm actually very interested in that. I was looking at Haltech Elite 1500's the other day. It seems very capable, they're not going to beat you up on cost for "firmware" options added in. Please DM me a price for 1500 and 2500 if you don't mind. I'll be ready to buy in a month or two.
     

    2K  0

    1989 Dodge Colt GT
    manual · 4G63t Swapped

    Street Build 2K  1

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 1G DSM
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  12. Ludachris

    Ludachris Founder & Zookeeper

    3,597
    883
    Joined Nov 12, 2001
    Roseville, California
    Oh hell, I just saw the update about the head gasket. Sorry to hear about that man! That's painful. I'm sure you're feeling a tiny sense of relief in that you have more time to prepare for the next event - even with all the disappointment.

    Thanks for sharing all the info from the build here. Just the Q&A here about your set up is priceless. It opens the door to others getting interested in more extreme builds and more milestones.
     

    Street Build 8K  0

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD (sold)
    manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 7K  23

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    435.0 whp · 399.2 lb/ft · 1G DSM
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  13. Got Grip

    Got Grip Proven Member

    160
    117
    Joined Sep 17, 2002
    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    PM Sent. And I agree, it's definitely nice to not have to pay for features that should be there from the beginning. The only "upgrade" you can do is upgrade a 2500 box to a 2500T but that requires the box going to Haltech to be upgraded and adds some pretty advanced torque management features. The standard 2500 has some basic torque management built in already also.

    Thanks Chris! I gotta get some pictures up of the DSMTuners decals too!

    In a way it was good that it broke at the first track but I would have preferred to not break at all. I'm definitely not going to sit on this and wait until a month or two before to start working on it and get it repaired. I'll probably pull the motor in the next week or two and start getting it back together. I don't see any reason it isn't running again by winter but then its going to sit until it gets warmer here in the North East.
     

    Street Build 2K  1

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    9.99 @ 148 · 2G DSM

    3K  7

    2008 4G63 Dragster
    6.474 @ 210.18 · 4G63t Swapped

    2K  17

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    10.03 @ 148 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  14. Got Grip

    Got Grip Proven Member

    160
    117
    Joined Sep 17, 2002
    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    Drive By Wire (DBW). I think this is the post that a lot of people were waiting for. This is something I’ve wanted to do for a long time and thought this was the perfect opportunity.

    Why DBW?

    If you’ve tuned a DSM on large injectors, lightweight flywheel, etc, etc, etc, you know that they can be a pain to get to idle. If you have the stock throttle body, you’re limited by a fairly basic ISC motor with a limited range of adjustment. If you have an aftermarket throttle body and stock ECU (like DSMLink for example), you are even more limited in ISC options, basically only making an inline adapter for a stock ISC, or run no ISC like most of us. With no ISC, it seems like your options are usually requiring a little throttle to keep the car running during warm up and then a reasonable idle once warmed up or a reasonable idle during warmup and a high idle once warmed up. I’ve messed with timing, fuel, all sorts of settings to get some cars to warm up and idle decent and sometimes there’s just nothing you can do without changing airflow.

    In comes the DBW throttle body. The ECU can now open or close the throttle body as much as it needs to get the car to the target idle. This is far more advanced and customizable than a 30-year-old ISC motor.

    In addition, now that the computer has control of the throttle body, you can do some other cool things. You can have the computer anticipate the throttle opening and inject fuel at the proper time for that accelerator squirt rather than in a conventional cable system being reactionary to the throttle blade opening. This is done because the input is from your foot to a sensor on the gas pedal, this tells the computer to open throttle body, so it now knows this event is coming and can squirt in extra fuel at the same time.

    Another benefit is that I can add built cruise control. All this requires is another input into the ECU to set the cruise control and then instead of that huge box under the hood that we all ditch, it just opens and closes the throttle body as necessary.

    The final benefit that I’ll mention here advanced traction control/launch control. You can use the throttle body to limit power based on tire slippage or other parameters you setup.

    I’m sure there are other benefits that I’m not thinking of now, if you know of something, please post it.


    Since this event is primarily street driving, I wanted the ultimate in drivability so this seemed like a no brainer.


    To do this on a DSM, it first and foremost requires an aftermarket ECU (Such as the Haltech Elite 2500 I’m using).

    Next you need a throttle pedal and a throttle body. I chose the GM throttle pedal (I think from a Camaro?) and a Bosch throttle body. I believe the throttle body is used on Porsche’s and BMW’s and is right around 90mm.


    I already had a DVDT Fabrications sheet metal intake setup for a Q45 throttle body and I absolutely love the way it performs so I didn’t want to get a whole new intake. I designed up an adapter for the Bosch DBW throttle body and then 3D printed it to verify fitment.

    IMG_9257-768x1024.jpg

    I actually found a slight interference with one of the screws and the back of the throttle body thanks to this mockup so I modified the design slightly and then sent it off to Albert at DVDT Fab to make it out of aluminum. His work always looks incredible.

    IMG_9708-768x1024.jpg

    Here are some pics of the adapters and then installation of the throttle body.

    IMG_9719-1024x768.jpg

    IMG_9721-1024x768.jpg

    IMG_9723-1024x768.jpg

    IMG_9724-1024x768.jpg

    Next was the gas pedal. You can see its not THAT different from the stock 2G pedal. I was actually able to use one stock stud on the firewall for it I believe.

    IMG_9219-768x1024.jpg

    I made an aluminum adapter bracket for it that picks up some stock studs/holes in the firewall and then mounts the pedal. I had to angle the bottom out more than the 2G pedal to get the full range of motion. When I have more time, I might look into moving the whole assembly out further rather than angling it in the future if this turns out to not be super comfortable. Sorry for the bad picture, not a ton of light in the car.

    IMG_0021-1024x768.jpg

    So now its all installed in the car, the next thing is to wire it up to the Haltech Elite 2500. It was a bit of a pain to find the correct connectors for the Bosch throttle body. I’m sure many people will just grab junk yard parts and pigtails but I wanted to use brand new connectors. I had to pay $18 for the throttle body connector and pins and I was able to get the gas pedal GM one for just a couple dollars.

    IMG_0256-1024x768.jpg

    Now its onto setup. Haltech makes it super easy. I did have one glitch during setup. One of my sensor inputs for the gas pedal had the pull up resistor enabled and I had to scroll over on my screen to see that. The throttle pedal worked for one opening before going into limp mode and closing before I found that error. Setup is literally just assign the inputs and outputs in the Haltech software then follow the on-screen instructions. 0% throttle, hit okay, 100% throttle, hit okay, then let it drive the throttle blade through its range of motion and its calibrated. Once its setup, you can then enable idle control and any other DBW functions you want.

    IMG_0033-1024x768.jpg

    So how this works:

    There are two throttle pedal position sensors in the throttle pedal that use independent inputs to the ECU. Then there are two throttle plate position sensors in the throttle body that also use independent inputs to the ECU. Finally there are two stepper motor outputs from the Haltech to the throttle body that drive it to the desired position.

    Haltech I believe uses two different processors to handle the two inputs from the throttle pedal and throttle body. It’s constantly verifying that the two match. If it detects a discrepancy between say one throttle pedal sensor and the other throttle pedal sensor, it will immediately send the DBW system into limp mode and close the throttle blade. This should never be possible as long as both sensors are working properly so its just a fail safe in case one sensor does fail.


    Since I already spilled the beans and told everyone that the car runs and drives and broke already, I will say that this system works great. I’ll post some videos of it soon also. With idle control enabled, the car fires right up and sits there and idles. I didn’t spend any time tuning it at all yet but I seemed to be able to get a fairly nice idle at around 1000 RPM’s with virtually no effort. I want to add a transmission gear input so that the ECU knows when the car is in gear vs not and I can have two different idle maps.



    And I know I’m beating a dead horse but please help out these people who helped me make a build like this possible. These companies are all AMAZING to deal with and make amazing products or else I wouldn’t put their products in my car or recommend them.


    http://www.fuelinjectorclinic.com

    http://www.extremepsi.com

    http://www.tialsport.com

    http://www.xonarotor.com

    http://www.haltech.com

    http://www.turbo4.com

    http://www.forcedfour.com
     

    Street Build 2K  1

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    9.99 @ 148 · 2G DSM

    3K  7

    2008 4G63 Dragster
    6.474 @ 210.18 · 4G63t Swapped

    2K  17

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    10.03 @ 148 · 1G DSM
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  15. bling5tatus

    bling5tatus Proven Member

    1,309
    96
    Joined Sep 23, 2005
    DFW/Austin, Texas
    OMG, I haven't read it all yet, but thank you very much for posting all of this stuff that you have posted here in this thread (especially this juicy dbw post). I'm going back to reading now, LOL.
     

    2K  0

    1989 Dodge Colt GT
    manual · 4G63t Swapped

    Street Build 2K  1

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  16. Got Grip

    Got Grip Proven Member

    160
    117
    Joined Sep 17, 2002
    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    One thing I forgot to post in the wiring section is that I used all brand new connectors from Sheridan Engineering (Purchased through Extreme PSI of course). There were only two connectors in my entire wiring harness now that are not brand new, the automatic transmission connector and the alternator connector. I had to find the best out of the several used harnesses that I have for each of those. I have to say that it's REALLY nice having a brand new harness in a 25 year old car.
     

    Street Build 2K  1

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    9.99 @ 148 · 2G DSM

    3K  7

    2008 4G63 Dragster
    6.474 @ 210.18 · 4G63t Swapped

    2K  17

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    10.03 @ 148 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  17. Got Grip

    Got Grip Proven Member

    160
    117
    Joined Sep 17, 2002
    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    Not at all DSM related but car related and a big part of my car life so I figured I'll post it here. Around November of 2018, I put my name on a list to order a new BMW M2 Competition when an allocation was available. I waited and waited and waited and even started putting my name on the list at other dealerships but production was very limited and every dealer had a long waiting list. I believe it was around March when I got a phone call that they had an allocation and they were first come first served, so I immediately went to the dealer and placed my order. A couple months later, my custom ordered 2020 M2C showed up and I've been in love with the car ever since.

    I had a C63 AMG Mercedes before this and while I loved the high revving NA 6.2L V8, the lack of a third pedal started to weigh on me for a fun daily driver. I went through just about every option imaginable on what to get, C7 Corvette, GT350 Mustang, Porsche Cayman, used 911, older R8 V8, GTR (no third pedal), M3, M4, F-Type, etc, etc. I drove most of them except for the M2C because there literally weren't any on the dealership lots anywhere. The M2C just seemed to check the most boxes for me.

    Onto some pictures:

    IMG_9497.jpg

    IMG_9183.jpg

    IMG_9184.jpg
     

    Street Build 2K  1

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    9.99 @ 148 · 2G DSM

    3K  7

    2008 4G63 Dragster
    6.474 @ 210.18 · 4G63t Swapped

    2K  17

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    10.03 @ 148 · 1G DSM
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  18. Got Grip

    Got Grip Proven Member

    160
    117
    Joined Sep 17, 2002
    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    Let’s talk about the fuel system.


    I’m going to start with the fuel system problems that I was looking to overcome.

    The stock 2G fuel tank sucks for drag racing. The pickup is toward the front, its plastic so you can’t weld a sump in it, there’s no drain and to top it all off, it’s a saddle tank with a siphon cross over that becomes a restriction at high flow. Yes, I know there are Band-Aids for some of these things but they’re all Band-Aids.

    Next is type of fuel. For Drag Week I need to drive 1000 miles on the street and race for 5 consecutive days. 93 octane pump gas isn’t going to get me to my goal. E85 would certainly get me there but the route is not provided until the day of and E85 stations can be hard to come by. It’s not practical to bring along enough E85 for 1000 miles plus racing, although some do it.

    Fuel tank size, for this much street driving, I wanted something in the 15-20 gallon range and putting a fuel cell in the trunk at that size is kind of crazy. Then swapping fuels at the track with a tank that big could turn into a nightmare.

    Switching between 93 octane on the street and E85 at the track has its own set of challenges. E85 requires quite a bit more fuel than 93 octane. So I’d need very large fuel pumps and very large injectors to handle the E85 and they most likely wouldn’t drive all that spectacular on pump gas (although Fuel Injector Clinic 2150’s do decent on 93 considering how massive they are).

    Then there’s methanol injection (meth is a drug, methanol is fuel we use in race cars, this is a pet peeve of mine). The conventional way of doing methanol injection is to use an irrigation pump never designed to be used with corrosive fuels, a crude solenoid and some irrigation nozzles. I’ve tuned these systems plenty and they’re never consistent, can’t be tuned for all conditions because of the delay in the pump turning on, etc. Sure, you can make power with them and some people have luck with them. To me they just aren’t the proper way to do it though so I avoid it on my personal stuff and I avoid tuning cars with them for the most part.

    So no onto what I decided to do. This is a fuel system I’ve wanted to do since like 2008 when I was tuning an Evo on Methanol injection regularly and dealing with the headaches above with inconsistencies and whatnot.

    Run an 8 injector setup, 4 primaries on 93 octane pump gas. Then a set of 4 secondaries on a completely different fuel (in my case E98, although I might try methanol at some point, it’s just some scaling in Haltech to make a change).


    So how did I do this? I kept the stock tank and all of its headaches. I installed a Walbro 450 pump in the stock location. This pump is overkill for what I’m doing but I decided to go 450 for head room in case I wanted to do something different in the future. I have the rest of the fuel stuff (feed/return/filter/rail/etc) to support big flow so I might as well. I installed the Walbro 450 in the tank and transitioned the stock sending unit to -8 AN line. I installed Fuelab filter in the engine bay, then continued -8 AN to the rail. In the rail I installed a new set of Fuel Injector Clinic 650cc high impedance injectors (PN: IS126-0650H). These injectors can support just over 300 whp on pump gas at stock pressures. They can be pushed further for sure but this is the safe area. From there I went -8 AN to a Fuelab AFPR, then -6 AN back to the tank. In the tank, I drilled out the siphon (I forget the exact size but I used information I found here on Tuners to decide).

    So that’s my primary fuel system. 93 octane, Walbro 450 and a set of 4 FIC 650cc hi-Z injectors. Fairly normal and easy setup. That’s going to make drivability of the car pretty awesome, but it’s not going to get me into the 8’s. Probably not even the 11’s for that matter.


    So now onto the secondary fuel system. I found a ~2 gallon fuel cell that fits next to my roll cage behind my drivers side rear wheel well and mounted that. It has 2 -10 AN outlets on it standard, so I ran both of those to a pair of Bosch 044 pumps. Those two pumps exit in a pair of -8 AN lines to a Y that also exits in a single -8 AN. That goes to a fuel lab alcohol-based fuel safe fuel filter mounted under the car. From there I continued the -8 right up to my secondary rail. In the secondary rail I have a set of FIC 2150 Hi-Z injectors (PN: IS126-2150H). FIC rates these at over 900 whp on E85 and 58 PSI fuel pressure. From the secondary rail, I go to a second Fuelab fuel pressure regulator with -8 AN line. Then from there I have a -6 AN return line all the way back to the top of the fuel cell in the back.

    In this system, I plan to run VP X98, which is just the most readily available E98 that I can get here. I’d use any E98 I can get but I was having trouble finding anything and running out of time so VP X98 it is.


    So here’s how the controls work. Haltech is setup on gasoline and the FIC Data Match data is plugged directly into the Haltech software for the 650’s. I literally plugged this information in, guessed at some VE values for my combination at idle, set target lambda to 1.0 and the car fired and idled perfectly. Data Match technology is awesome for that, you know exactly what you’re getting and if your software is advanced enough, you can plug that information right into it.

    The secondary injectors are a bit trickier. Haltech (and most tuning software that I know of) don’t offer options for injecting multiple types of fuel at the same time, so I had to trick it. 93 octane stoich is 14.7:1. VP X98 is 8.98:1. I have the exact data match data for each injector and that’s what I used in Haltech but I’m going to simplify the math here and just do it for 2150 cc’s. So now I multiply 2150 cc * 8.98 / 14.7 and that gets me the “effective” injector size for these injectors (1313 cc’s) for the Haltech Software. This doesn’t mean the injectors are flowing 1313 cc/min. It means that Haltech thinks its injecting gasoline so it’s going to calculate fueling according to a stoichiometric ratio of 14.7:1, but it’s actually injecting pure ethanol. I’m fooling the system into injecting more fuel (by the proper amount) to account for the stoichiometric difference between the two fuels.

    I could have done this opposite and set it up for E98 in the haltech software, then put the 2150cc Data Match Technology data right into haltech and setup the 650’s as: 650 * 14.7/8.98 = 1064. This would have accomplished the same exact thing but I decided to do it the other way.

    I’m also running the 2150’s at 58 PSI of base pressure so I had to do this all for 58 PSI. I have all of this data direct from FIC on the Data Match data sheet but if you need to do the math, it’s SQRT(New Pressure / Old Pressure) * Old Flow Rate = New Flow Rate. 2150’s flow about 2480 at 58 PSI for reference and then with my fuel type modifier, I entered about 1516 cc per injector.


    Okay, enough math, I didn’t actually describe how any of this is controlled yet. The primary fuel pump (Walbro 450) and primary fuel injectors (FIC 650H) are all wired to the Haltech as a normal fuel system would be. The 450 is on an output switch through a relay and setup as the primary fuel pump. It primes at key on, turns on with the engine, etc. The injectors are wired to the first 4 fuel injector outputs. This part is as basic as it gets.

    The secondary fuel pumps are wired to another output through a high current relay (80 amp I believe to be safe). This is setup in Haltech as a secondary fuel pump and I can customize how/when it turns on. I haven’t messed with this too much yet, but I can turn it on based on fuel flow, load, etc. It’s up to me. My ultimate plan is to calculate at what injector flow rate I want the secondaries to turn on and enter a fuel flow number lower than this for the fuel pumps so that they are already on and primed before the secondaries turn on.

    The FIC 2150H’s are wired to the second 4 injector outputs. These I have turned on when the primary injectors reach a set injector duty cycle. I haven’t messed with these settings much yet but I can allow the primaries to get to say 50% duty cycle, then the secondaries will start phasing in. In a split second the secondaries and primaries will match duty cycle and I’ll be injecting the same duty cycle worth of E98 and 93 octane.

    So, what’s that mean for fuel mixtures? It means that I’ve now mechanically defined my ethanol content by injector sizing. At full fuel flow, I’m injecting approximately 650cc of gas and 2480cc of ethanol (per cylinder). That means ~26% of my fuel (by volume) is gas and ~74% is ethanol. AKA I’m running about E74 under boost.

    All of this means I can pull up at any gas station and fill with 93 octane and keep cruising. I need to bring E98 with me, but I should use quite a bit less than half a gallon of E98 per run, meaning one 5 gallon pale of E98 will get me over 10 passes down the track. It also means that the way I drive the car from track to track is exactly how its raced power wise. If I was so inclined, I could roll into the power whenever I want and it’s all setup exactly as at the race track.

    Obviously, this is quite a bit more complicated than just adding an irrigation pump and a nozzle into my charge pipe, but I like the math and figuring it all out. Plus, I like that I know exactly what is going on with the whole system and have full control over it, which is what this setup affords me. I’ll probably mess with different fuels in the secondary injectors eventually. It’s just simple injector scaling as I mentioned above for a fuel change. Fairly straight forward.

    Okay, that was a lot of words, hopefully I answered most questions. Feel free to ask away. Let me show some pictures of this whole setup.

    IMG_9706-1024x768.jpg

    IMG_0022-768x1024.jpg

    IMG_0024-1024x768.jpg

    IMG_0133-1024x768.jpg

    IMG_9191-1024x768.jpg

    My dad built an enclosure for this to be NHRA legal. I have to go take some pictures and I'll add them.

    IMG_9712-768x1024.jpg

    IMG_9471-1024x768.jpg

    IMG_0249-1024x768.jpg

    http://www.fuelinjectorclinic.com

    http://www.extremepsi.com

    http://www.tialsport.com

    http://www.xonarotor.com

    http://www.haltech.com

    http://www.turbo4.com

    http://www.forcedfour.com
     

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  19. miguelmcv

    miguelmcv Proven Member

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    Amazing set up you have, Congrats to you and thanks for all the information and opening new door for the DSM community.

    So once the secondary injectors kicks in, it doesn’t need to do any changes to boost, timing, AFR or anything like that?.

    How you set up the boost and timing?, or Haltech change everything by itself.

    What about if you run out of the secondary fuel, you can’t floor it? Or you just have to keep an eye on the primary injectors not to overrun them.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2019

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  20. Got Grip

    Got Grip Proven Member

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    Thanks! I am not sure I'm doing anything completely new here, but just a lot of stuff in one build, and maybe newer to this market. Or maybe I'm just dumb for trying it.

    The secondaries are always setup to phase in before they are needed and the start coming on at low boost (like say 5-10 PSI). So it will be tuned to run a lot of boost and the secondaries will always come on. I could make a pump gas tune and turn the secondaries off in the software if I wanted but I don't really see a point in that. I could even setup a switch or rotary knob with Haltech that would run low boost and timing and run pump gas only or turn the switch and it would allow the full dual fuel system tune with way more boost and timing and appropriate AFRs. The options are pretty limitless with a system like this.

    It's all setup in Haltech and I can do pretty much whatever I want as mentioned above.

    That's something I don't have setup at all right now. Haltech would have no idea that the it ran out of fuel (Except for secondary fuel pressure and lean AFR's) and currently wouldn't compensate in any way. The car would just go lean and potentially break (it might go so lean that nothing happens). There are a lot of options for failsafes though that I could setup. I could give it more ability to add fuel based on the wideband. I could have it cut all power if AFR's go lean by a certain amount. I could hook up a fuel sending unit so that if it gets below a certain level it goes to that pump gas tune (boost, afr's, etc) that I mentioned above. If you can dream it up, you can pretty much make it happen in Haltech. It's just a matter of how involved you want to get with all of your custom tables and maps.
     

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  21. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

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    I have my standalone setup to phase in the secondary injectors based on boost, and I run a multi fuel tune, it detects the amount of alcohol and phases in the gasoline tune as far as desired afr and desired timing based on the ethanol content, it in essence blends the two maps in the amount that I have them set to blend, there are a few running what your talking about, our ecu will run that setup no problem, I am sure your Haltech will also with no problems!
     

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  22. Got Grip

    Got Grip Proven Member

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    That’s kind of a different animal than what I’m doing. Haltech and DSMLink and most Tuning software can now do flex fuel with a sensor and blending maps. I tune quite a few cars that way. I have two completely independent fuel systems in my car though and the nature of how that all works with two different fuels is quite a bit different than flex fuel.
     

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  23. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

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    I ran two separate fuel systems last year is what I am getting at I guess, I now run the setup as I described, I wanted to get rid of some of the complexity of last years setup so over the winter I swapped things out.
     

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  24. miguelmcv

    miguelmcv Proven Member

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    The primary and secondary injectors needs to be both the same style? Both hz or both low impedance injectors?, or it will manage both style.
     

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  25. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

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    You would want high impedance for all of them, or run a resistor pack, my manufacturer has a 5 amp max injector draw so low impedance might work but no sense in over complicating thugs or pushing your luck.
     

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