2G Car still won’t start

[98gstJames]

Alright so I’ve been trying to get my car to start and I’ve done a lot, what does it sound like my car is missing now? I’ll add a video, I’m just lost

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[waltah]

No I have not performed a compression test, I went to the tool store yesterday and looked at prices and just couldn’t afford it this week with other expenses that came first, I will be getting one next week though.

I wouldn't bother checking compression right now. When you have a working ECU then that car should start. If it doesn't, more diagnosis is in order and since people have said it sounds okay cranking, compression isn't the first place I'd look.

"Almost no compression" (bunch of bent valves or head gasket blown in a couple places) might kept it from starting but you'd hear those when cranking. Also, it did run pretty well (though briefly) right at the beginning of your story, right?

Now if you get it running but idle is rough and you've gotten rid of air leaks and similar stuff then a compression test should be next. But borrow the tool -- don't buy it. All the auto parts places loan tools like that -- you basically buy it (around $50) but when you bring it back they give you your money back.

I've spent a bunch of time staring at those spark videos and I still don't like 1-4. One plug is weaker than the other and some sparks seem to be missing completely. If you swapped the wires on that coil then the 1-4 coil is probably bad.

But let's be cheap about this and for now, do nothing. There's enough spark there to get it to start and if it really is bad, it'll get worse and proof of guilt will be easy to get. Spark coils run $50-100 I think and though a spare is good, that's not where I'd go right now. Just file what you got with those videos under 'highly suspicious."

You've mentioned replacing wires, melted insulation and all that: Do you know what caused that?

 

[Chri_Evocoupe]

Am to understand that my car has a 1g cas? I’ll post a pic, is this a problem? Do I need a 2g cas?

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

The cas is the same before the problem?

 

[98gstJames]

I wouldn't bother checking compression right now. When you have a working ECU then that car should start. If it doesn't, more diagnosis is in order and since people have said it sounds okay cranking, compression isn't the first place I'd look.

"Almost no compression" (bunch of bent valves or head gasket blown in a couple places) might kept it from starting but you'd hear those when cranking. Also, it did run pretty well (though briefly) right at the beginning of your story, right?

Now if you get it running but idle is rough and you've gotten rid of air leaks and similar stuff then a compression test should be next. But borrow the tool -- don't buy it. All the auto parts places loan tools like that -- you basically buy it (around $50) but when you bring it back they give you your money back.

I've spent a bunch of time staring at those spark videos and I still don't like 1-4. One plug is weaker than the other and some sparks seem to be missing completely. If you swapped the wires on that coil then the 1-4 coil is probably bad.

But let's be cheap about this and for now, do nothing. There's enough spark there to get it to start and if it really is bad, it'll get worse and proof of guilt will be easy to get. Spark coils run $50-100 I think and though a spare is good, that's not where I'd go right now. Just file what you got with those videos under 'highly suspicious."

You've mentioned replacing wires, melted insulation and all that: Do you know what caused that?

Yes I do, the guy who owned the car before me thought I’d be a good idea to use speaker power wire to wire in the positive battery terminal, the ground for the car, so naturally with a lot of heat next to it, they melted.

The cas is the same before the problem?

Yes I haven’t changed it, it was on the car when I got it.

 

[98gstJames]

So I sent my ecu to ecmtuning and they are sending it back because they don’t work on black box ecus, so I guess I’ll be ordering one off eBay as well as using the service off of eBay. Hope things go well

 

[Dericsh]

With the recent loss of support for black box, your money may be better spent by “upgrading” to a 2ga eprom ecu that ecmtuning can work on for you.

 

[98gstJames]

With the recent loss of support for black box, your money may be better spent by “upgrading” to a 2ga eprom ecu that ecmtuning can work on for you.

Would that cost more than getting another black box?

 

[Dericsh]

Would that cost more than getting another black box?

performance partout has a listing priced at $195. But it’s out of stock. Same (out of stock) on Rix. That’s the only two places i checked- just wanted to make you aware of other options depending on your future goals for the car.

 

[98gstJames]

performance partout has a listing priced at $195. But it’s out of stock. Same (out of stock) on Rix. That’s the only two places i checked- just wanted to make you aware of other options depending on your future goals for the car.

Could you show me a picture of what they would look like? I guess since they’re not in stock at the moment I’ll get a black box for now

 

[Jonnyeclipse]

The eprom ECU’S can still be found. I looked for people parting out 95 DSM’S. I found and bought 2 of them last summer for $200 Canadian dollars each. The sellers didn’t even know what eprom was. I just had them send me pictures of the inside and outside of the ECU. I will keep my eyes open for another one

 

[Dericsh]

The eprom ECU’S can still be found. I looked for people parting out 95 DSM’S. I found and bought 2 of them last summer for $200 Canadian dollars each. The sellers didn’t even know what eprom was. I just had them send me pictures of the inside and outside of the ECU. I will keep my eyes open for another one

Exactly. I didn’t spend a lot of time looking just went to a site I knew I could get you a ballpark price.

 

[Chri_Evocoupe]

I think you can find a black box ECU for less of $150, the last time i see ther selling it for $90, the only problem is, that need to tunit for your car. Or at least flash it with a stock turbo tune

With the recent loss of support for black box, your money may be better spent by “upgrading” to a 2ga eprom ecu that ecmtuning can work on for you.

What happen with the support?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I heard that Ceddy Mods was no longer available on one of our threads this week or last week.

 

[98gstJames]

I found a md346676 black box on fb, mine a md346675 so I’m assuming those are for the awd cars and won’t work in mine?

So the md346676 one is $80 bucks plus 10 for shipping but I found an exact md346675 that’s the dude wants 250 for and that includes shipping, I’d much rather do the 80 dollar one but I don’t think it will work so I guess I’m looking at dropping some money?

 

[Chri_Evocoupe]

I heard that Ceddy Mods was no longer available on one of our threads this week or last week.

Oh, im looking for it

I found a md346676 black box on fb, mine a md346675 so I’m assuming those are for the awd cars and won’t work in mine?

Its supposed to work,

 

[waltah]

I found a md346676 black box on fb, mine a md346675 so I’m assuming those are for the awd cars and won’t work in mine?

Per the mitsubishi parts lookup it does work. Here's one of the dealers that uses that software:

1998-1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse Ecm MD346676 | Auto Parts

This genuine OEM 1998-1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse Ecm #MD346676 is specifically engineered for your 1998-1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse vehicle and save up to 70% off of Genuine OEM Parts, comes with a 12 month warranty..

www.mitsubishipartswarehouse.com

I trust the various mitsu dealers' software pretty close to 100% for interchangeability questions. For the difference in price I would go with that one if you trust the seller to take a return if it's wrong.

One good thing about eBay (where I buy a lot of parts) is that dealers there are under eBay's thumb: They will always take a return if you do your part -- test promptly, tell them exactly what's wrong, etc. EBay makes 'em hurt if they don't.

You measured the injector resistance pin to pin at the ECU connector as 75 ohms which is fine. What was the 85 ohm number you mentioned? Don't want to run any risk of frying another ECU ...

One thing I haven't seen on this site is a list of ECU numbers that interchange. Would be a very useful thing.

 

[98gstJames]

Per the mitsubishi parts lookup it does work. Here's one of the dealers that uses that software:

1998-1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse Ecm MD346676 | Auto Parts

This genuine OEM 1998-1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse Ecm #MD346676 is specifically engineered for your 1998-1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse vehicle and save up to 70% off of Genuine OEM Parts, comes with a 12 month warranty..

www.mitsubishipartswarehouse.com

I trust the various mitsu dealers' software pretty close to 100% for interchangeability questions. For the difference in price I would go with that one if you trust the seller to take a return if it's wrong.

One good thing about eBay (where I buy a lot of parts) is that dealers there are under eBay's thumb: They will always take a return if you do your part -- test promptly, tell them exactly what's wrong, etc. EBay makes 'em hurt if they don't.

You measured the injector resistance pin to pin at the ECU connector as 75 ohms which is fine. What was the 85 ohm number you mentioned? Don't want to run any risk of frying another ECU ...

One thing I haven't seen on this site is a list of ECU numbers that interchange. Would be a very useful thing.

Well I went ahead and got the exact one for my car just to be sure I figured I might as well, plus it was just pulled from a running car a week ago for dsmlink so I figured that was my best bet. As for the ecu ohms I can’t exactly remember which pin it was but when I measured resistances in the pins they went up to 17.5ohms and when I grounded them out they went up to 18.5ohms when grounded, if I remember correctly.

 

[Wizeman76]

I can't believe we still don't have those compression test readings.

 

[98gstJames]

I can't believe we still don't have those compression test readings.

My # 2 injector wasn’t firing and my # 1 injector was barely firing.

I had some issues in my ECU that needed to be addressed, I honestly thought getting my ECU figured out first was better than getting the compression test right now but I am gonna get to it once my car is doing what it’s supposed to be doing.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Here it is everyone. Finally running after all this time

 

[Dericsh]

Nice job sticking with this process and getting it started!

 

[98gstJames]

Nice job sticking with this process and getting it started!

I wouldn’t have been able to do it without your guys help, I just need to get it running good now.

I’ve got some issues with fuel, when I press the gas it’s like it’s bogging but it stays steady at about 2200 rpm.

I did notice this yesterday, that’s the line coming from the water pump, I’m not sure if this connects to my fuel seeming issue.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[fwdmaster]

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Here it is everyone. Finally after all this time

Damm man, congrats on getting the DSM running

 

[98gstJames]

Found the o ring on the thermostat housing pipe that runs to the water pump was stretched out and I’m assuming when the car started the pressure just made it smush out bc it didn’t hold a good seal, autozone ordered one for me last night and it will be here today just waiting for the call and I’ll either put it all back together tonight or tomorrow.

I also will be doing compression tests after everything is put back together.

Also I can’t get the car to idle so I’m gonna put the first 02 sensor in its place and hope that it helps my issue, anything else I should fiddle with?

I made a lil uh oh when I was checking for voltage for my MAF sensor wire and didn’t plug it back in so that’s why it was bogging down when I started it, plugged it in and now it’ll respond a lot better and rise in RPMs. The car still definitely needs some work bc it’s running somewhat rough, so I’m hoping with correct coolant flowing and no air leaks it’ll help that.

I found a snapped line on my turbo wastegate for the cheap boost controller the guy put on it, I want to take it off but I’m not sure where the vacuum lines on the turbo and wastegate go so I just cut the line and reconnected it to the wastegate so there wasn’t a leak.

I’ll take a video when I have it running after all the work is done and see what all you think my next move should be.

 

[waltah]

I wouldn’t have been able to do it without your guys help, I just need to get it running good now, I’ve got some issues with fuel, when I press the gas it’s like it’s bogging but it stays steady at about 2200 rpm but I did notice this yesterday, that’s the line coming from the water pump, I’m not sure if this connects to my fuel seeming issue.

Congratulations! My guess is you've got two or three more issues before it runs smoothly but you'll get 'er done.

You've got to have a good cooling system first so replace that O-ring. Make sure the new one fits correctly: I've seen claimed replacement O-rings in that job that were too small cross section so they didn't actually seal the joint and you get a small 'forever' leak there. That's bad enough but you can wind up getting air in the system which will lead to overheating ...

The bogging you describe can be anything -- not necessarily fuel. If you're saying it idles at 2200 and with the knowledge of what else was wrong (the speaker wire run to the battery says a lot) I would start at the very beginning with adjustment of the throttle body. There are three adjustments that should be done in a certain order and are often -- make that 'usually' -- messed up on cars that show up on DSMT

There are likely to be other things wrong but until the TB adjustments are correct it's a waste of time to go looking for them -- if you get a smooth idle when warm just doing adjustments you don't need to worry about compression, for example. Sure, you might do the test -- it'll give you an idea when major work might be needed -- but for now (while trying to make it driveable) you could mark that down on your list of 'do this later.'

The things to adjust on the TB are the Throttle Stop Screw, the Closed Throttle Position Switch, and the Basic Idle Speed Screw. I'll post the how-to on those in the next day or so -- or someone else may get there first or have a link. The procedures in the Service Manual for the CTPS doesn't always work well for older cars though -- there's a better way for us'uns.

The first step should be to inspect the inside of the TB for 'clean enough to work.' A little black is fine but caked deposits need to be cleaned out before doing the other stuff. This can be done in the car but is easier to do well if you remove the thing, added advantage you can do the other adjustments more easily with it off. Be ready to plug the coolant hoses to the Idle Speed Control Valve when you take them off and have on hand the gasket between the TB and plenum. That's a very frequent place for air leaks so not bad to take apart, examine, and put back with a new gasket.

My 95 GS-T came 8 months ago -- I was able to drive it home. Within a month, though I had a list of 60-some issues. Most are now crossed off but in the last three weeks I've picked up three more --- front windshield washers are clogged, there's a new airbag (SRS) warning light, and one of the front wipers came loose on its hub in a downpour causing the other wiper to jam. In my opinion these cars need to be owned by someone with mechanical skills.

EDIT: rereading your last post I see that you fixed the 'bogging' and it now revs but idle isn't good.

The idle RPM should be ~850. If it's much higher than that then look for air leaks. Get a can of 'starting fluid' and spray here and there around the intake plumbing, all the vacuum hoses, joint between intake manifold and head, TB to plenum joint, etc. If it suddenly starts sucking fuel along with air it'll likely rev up some and smooth out for a few seconds and whatever you just sprayed has an air leak. Fix it!

The stuff is highly flammable so do this outside rather than in garage.

If the idle speed is high but you do not find an air leak, go ahead as above because probably the high idle is the result of the prior owner cranking screws on the throttle body without knowing how. It will never run right until you fix that.

When your foot is off the throttle the ECU must control the RPM.

If the idle ia around 850 then with it warmed up and no accessories on, switch on the headlamps on high beam. Switch them on/off a few times. There should be hardly any change of RPM on the tach -- a bare flick. The engine note will get a bit deeper but the ECU is warned when the alternator sees a heavy load and it makes a standard adjustment of the Idle Speed Control Valve before the engine slows down.

If this works okay -- Idle RPM is about right and ECU/ISCV is controlling it -- then I would skip doing the throttle body work above. If the idle is rough, do a compression test. You can borrow the tool at any auto parts store and it's needed rarely enough that that's the way to get it.

 

[Linuxcnc69]

Wow, congratulations on getting it to start! As a certified mechanic I gotta say you got a crash course in fixing someone else's hack job. A suggestion is check every bit of the engine wiring for hidden stupidity like the "speaker wire patch" . The harnesses in these cars tend to dry and crack like you discovered on the injector plugs.
As mentioned before, stick to a task till your confident its done. Check all connections on the engine harness then move to the next. Saves going bald! As far as the coils check the horns where the plug wires go in , they sometimes crack and leak spark.
As far as the mods are concerned, personally I make a list of all previous upgrades then research what the supporting mods for each are cause many times these things are overlooked. Bigger turbo requires more fuel delivery from pump and injectors for example. Your gonna need to finish the upgrades the previous owner couldn't afford or had no clue about. Tuning is one of the last things but your gonna love that part. Long drives watching logs and hard throttle pulls! Thats my favorite part! But as stated before, stick to a path, be patient and follow thru and your gonna have a blast!

 

[98gstJames]

Got bad news… not so sure what it is but I hope it’s not what I think. So I finally got the o ring for my car and it put it on, put the thermostat housing on and then I put coolant in the car, plugged my obd2 in to see that the 02 sensor was working and it was, then I went to start the car, it wouldn’t start. I didn’t try to start it anymore bc I was afraid, so I then thought I should pull the plugs to look at them and so I did and when I pulled them out there was coolant on the plugs…I looked down in the cylinders and there is a puddle of coolant in each of them, only way I know this can happen is a blown head gasket but when I pulled the dipstick out there isn’t any coolant mixed w the oil, so I’m confused. Either way it’s a shitty time it seems. It’ll be another thing on the list but I won’t let this stop me either for sure, I can’t give up on the dsm.