Cam test: I will be dyno test: delta hks 272, delta K272 and BC 272 cams!!!!

[Purple_Demon]

Im in for results. Im in the market for 272 style or ballpark cams and we all love "best bang for the buck"

 

[rr06rs]

Have you thought about the Kelford "high lift" cams? I'm more curious in these than anything...

 

[keltalon]

Have you thought about the Kelford "high lift" cams? I'm more curious in these than anything...

I would test them if they would participate infact I would test any that would participate

 

[keltalon]

Hay fellas. There seems to be some confusion as to whey I did this cam test thread. It is believed that I tested these camshaft and put them in direct competition with each other. That is not the case. This test was done to test various cams with a setup and see how it does. Even though a cam may make more power than another doesn't mean its what you want because it may not do well from stop light to stop light.


All the data that was put in the thread is for your personal benefit, so you could chose what would be good for your set up. Take the infor for what it worth and use or discard Now that is out of the way I will definitely in october be doing some more testing. Bigger cams this time for the weekend warrior and not the daily driver. I spoke with greg from gsc and They alone with brian crower may be on board for this test. Set up should net me around 650 to 700 whp that's my goal. Stay tuned.

 

[dexterholland04]

I can also provide some great results with the Delta HKS 272 cams installed straight up (drop in...no degreeing). With my HX-40 (6-blade T3), I was seeing 65-67lb/min of airflow at 38-40psi on Q16. If I threw the car on a dyno there is no doubt in my mind that it would have made over 600whp. But I think that is about the limit of those cams, I don't think they would have made much more power. My full mod list is in my profile if you'd care to look and the 10.33 @ 136 1/4 was done on that setup at 38psi.

With all that being said, last night I installed some new Delta Kelford 272's (again, drop in-style) and also got Bullseye Power to send me a BatMoWheel for next to nothing. I'm going to take it to the track on Friday and see what it's got...it will definitely push my stock 7-bolt block record further...hopefully into the 9's.

 

[Bo0sTdTsI]

Interesting info kelvin, you just made it easier for me to narrow down my choices on this topic. Good luck with the brian crowers and gsc once you get that worked out.

 

[FLASH1970]

It says you removed the video from post 297...

 

[keltalon]

Well fellas greg at gsc informed me that he is not on board for this test run. He thinks that this is some type of competition between cams and its unfair to put gsc2 cams against brian crower 288. I have stated many of time before this is not a cam competition but a test of how a particular cam works with an application.

I will, post a test of the BC288 along with a dyno sheet and detail notes on how they perform in a daily driver/ weekend warrior dsm. This will be on my new setup in which I am shooting for a wheel horsepower of little better than 700.

Car should be up an running by end of october

 

[PieEyedPiper]

That's unfortunate. If I were to buy cams I'd likely purchase GSC cams, regardless of how the 288's perform.

 

[keltalon]

That's unfortunate. If I were to buy cams I'd likely purchase GSC cams, regardless of how the 288's perform.

Its very unfortunate because I get tons if PM's asking what do I think of the Gsc2 cams and would I recommend them. I have no comment but haven't read anything bad about them. I still May purchase a set just so I can add the results to this thread.

 

[GDNF2ET]

I've been hoping someone would post some results of the GSC-1 cams for a dsm..More hp than hks 264/264s with the same low end....Cams cost too much to experiment with..

 

[keltalon]

I've been hoping someone would post some results of the GSC-1 cams for a dsm..More hp than hks 264/264s with the same low end....Cams cost too much to experiment with..

Yeah I agree. The only reason I may purchase them is because I am interested in running the Gsc 2. But if the 288 suit my my needs the other set will be sold.

 

[keltalon]

I've been hoping someone would post some results of the GSC-1 cams for a dsm..More hp than hks 264/264s with the same low end....Cams cost too much to experiment with..

GSC told me to H@## with this test They are the best out there Daggumitt shocked the heck out of me! OH Well

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Just curious, but why would you compare the GSC S2's vs a 288* advertised cam?

Let's be clear.. the S3's I have are only advertised 280/280 (238 @ .040" with a 112LSA)

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

I wouldn't be on board for that either. Especially when you consider the BC288 and the GSC S3 are both advertised for 67mm and larger turbos.

Here's an informative read if you haven't run across it:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/427914-cam-shaft-testing-information.html

With that said, this has been an interesting comparison, thanks for sharing!

 

[jmartinez1228]

Just curious, but why would you compare the GSC S2's vs a 288* advertised cam?

Let's be clear.. the S3's I have are only advertised 280/280 (238 @ .040" with a 112LSA)

I wouldn't be on board for that either. Especially when you consider the BC288 and the GSC S3 are both advertised for 67mm and larger turbos.

Here's an informative read if you haven't run across it:

With that said, this has been an interesting comparison, thanks for sharing!

Few posts up in case you didn't read it, he already stated "I have stated many of time before this is not a cam competition but a test of how a particular cam works with an application."

 

[keltalon]

Just curious, but why would you compare the GSC S2's vs a 288* advertised cam?

Let's be clear.. the S3's I have are only advertised 280/280 (238 @ .040" with a 112LSA)

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

I wouldn't be on board for that either. Especially when you consider the BC288 and the GSC S3 are both advertised for 67mm and larger turbos.

Here's an informative read if you haven't run across it:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/427914-cam-shaft-testing-information.html

With that said, this has been an interesting comparison, thanks for sharing!

Yeah what he^^^^ said my goodness I get so many questions about the Gsc2 and what I think that in order to answer I would have to test. the same goes with bc 288 people want to know what I think about them not does the gsc2 makes more or less horsepower than the bc288. Greg is a jerk and don't have a clue as to what this test was all about! Certainly not a comparison by no means let's get that clear

 

[keltalon]

This was never intended to be a cam shootout because bigger is not always better landspeed you should know this If you ask me I still think the BC272 are the best street cam out there Hands down! And I love posting this I am not the only one that think so richard33 run 10s in his fwd bc272 powered eclipse! Best of both worlds speed and streetability!!

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SV3y4ctXqa8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Ok, I'm not talking about bigger is better, and in this instance from a duration perspective... the BC is "bigger" anyways...

But if you are in the market for a 288/288, why then would you consider the GSC S2?

I am not attacking what you are doing, I understand this is not a cam shoot out.

Your methodology is what I am curious about, which is why I posted. No need to roll eyes or get touchy.

All I stated there is that I am not sure why you would even want a GSC S2 for a 700whp build on a turbo that size, and in the same sentence be considering the BC 288, but not the S3?

Meanwhile, I am also putting out there that I fully understand why Greg @ GSC wants nothing to do with this, because it may not be your intent that he has contention with.

He is not a jerk because he won't participate, he is in business and is looking out for his interests.

It is how this thread will be interpreted by your average dumb-ass that he is concerned with, not your intent, surely you can see that?

FFS, I even ended it with "thanks for sharing" and left my own opinions and experience out.

 

[keltalon]

Ok, I'm not talking about bigger is better, and in this instance from a duration perspective... the BC is "bigger" anyways...

But if you are in the market for a 288/288, why then would you consider the GSC S2?

I am not attacking what you are doing, I understand this is not a cam shoot out.

Your methodology is what I am curious about, which is why I posted. No need to roll eyes or get touchy.

All I stated there is that I am not sure why you would even want a GSC S2 for a 700whp build on a turbo that size, and in the same sentence be considering the BC 288, but not the S3?

Meanwhile, I am also putting out there that I fully understand why Greg @ GSC wants nothing to do with this, because it may not be your intent that he has contention with.

He is not a jerk because he won't participate, he is in business and is looking out for his interests.

It is how this thread will be interpreted by your average dumb-ass that he is concerned with, not your intent, surely you can see that?

FFS, I even ended it with "thanks for sharing" and left my own opinions and experience out.

700whp will be made with the bc272. By the way Greg is a jerk not because of lack of participating I have my reasons for my statement trust me

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

PM me why if you don't mind I'm open to new information.

I don't doubt 700whp is do-able on almost any cam. Especially when you have ~80lb/min turbo that can support a healthy amount of boost.

There's at least two folks I can think of off the top of my head in the tens that used BC272s, not bad-mouthing them by any means..

Again, just trying to get a handle on your method here. No absolute statements on right or wrong, you should go with only X or Y.. This has made me more curious about your potential jump to the 288s

Is that jump just to kind of get an idea of the spectrum in driveability across the 3 different sets of BC cams? See a difference in psi/whp?

How high do you want to wind out on the 288s? What turbine housing is on the 6467? Did a quick search on the thread and it turned up nothing.

Edit: found it's a T3 frame on one of your other threads but nothing on whether its divided or not and A/R

 

[keltalon]

Just curious, but why would you compare the GSC S2's vs a 288* advertised cam?

Let's be clear.. the S3's I have are only advertised 280/280 (238 @ .040" with a 112LSA)

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

I wouldn't be on board for that either. Especially when you consider the BC288 and the GSC S3 are both advertised for 67mm and larger turbos.

Here's an informative read if you haven't run across it:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/427914-cam-shaft-testing-information.html

With that said, this has been an interesting comparison, thanks for sharing!

Advertised duration don't mean a thing and doesn't matter much other than just a starting guide provided by the cam maker. Some advertise at .040 lift some advertise at .1mm lift some such as brian crower advertised a .050 lift. When you advertise at a certain lift you will get different results in duration.

I have looked at the gsc s2 cams and they look to be pretty close to the brian crower 288 if they were at the same lift this is just my theory which really doesn't matter much either therefore we get to the reason again for this test How does a cam work on a particular set up which is what everybody are interested in and which has made this test so informative. peolple wanted to see the gsc s2 cam on my setup and so therefore I wanted to test them.

I still will purchase a set for testing without the help of gsc ,why so I can address the pm's that come to me about what I think about them. Same with bc 288. Which ever cam prove better than the current bc272 for the street I will run that cam. make clear not which cam makes the most power let get that straight. My car is a 573hp daily driver. The gsc gets good reviews on the evo forums which got me interested in them. If tthe gsc s2 cam makes more power and at the same time prove street freindly I am all for them same with the 288 with some cam gear tunning of course if not both will be sold with one thing for sure I will have the experience to share.

 

[coltboostin]

Is your K272 a direct copy of Kelford's 272 grind, or is yours just similar?

Why has this question not been directly answered?

 

[BogusSVO]

Why has this question not been directly answered?

Ill call Delta and ask.

Delta Camshaft

 

[keltalon]

Why has this question not been directly answered?

Well at the time this test was done the k272s was a exact copy of the kelford 272s. But kelford wasn't in agreement with copying their cams and made a little phone call to delta and told them to cease and desist. Therefore the current k272s don't have the same specs as the old ones.

 

[killercolt]

I have personally tuned two cars with Delta's version of the Kelford 272in/ex.

On a 2.4l g4cs with about 12:1 compression ratio and Gt4088r, the car made over 700hp and 600tq at 30psi with these cams. The power band seem a little laggy because peak torque was around 6200rpm. The cams were installed straight up with zero degreeing and the car still maintain decent idle at around 1000rpm.

On a 2.0l with 8.5:1 compression and a PTE 50trim ball bearing turbo, these cams sucks compared to the HKS 264in/272ex combo that they replaced. Manufacturing of the Delta Kelford 272 copies is poor on this set. I spotted the base lobes were not the same on the intake cam when I first looked at it. I confirm it with a digital caliper that I had on hand. I know the lifter adjust automatically for this but damn was the grinding off. With the HKS combos, this engine made 485hp uncorrected at 30psi. With the Kelford copies, the power drop to 450hp uncorrected. Man! Did the turbo lag like a muther heffer with the Keford copies. I am talking about 85hp different in the midrange. The turbo struggle to spool up with the fake Kelford 272in/272ex. You can hear the sluggishness in the spool. We try to dyno dialing the cam angle to see if we can make the higher lift Kelford copies perform better but that was a waste of time. Frustrated we set up the dial indicators and degree wheel to degree the cams to the cam card. Wow! 8 degrees off on the intake side and 2 degrees off on the intake side. Thank goodness for cam card. These are cam gear degree corrections. Satisfied that we got the cams degreed correctly, we turn the car on to warm it up. The car definitely idle better and pull better vacuum degreed in. We want to break 500hp with a bolt on 50trim with the Kelford copies. We set the base timing again before the dyno pull. Man! What a disappointment and waste of time? The Kelford copies suck balls even after all that works compared to the HKS old school combos. I was so mad I took those copy craps out that same night and putted the HKS cams back on to a test again. We made a pull with the HKS 264in/272ex installed straight up and base timing. HKS kicked the crap out of the Kelford want to be with a power of 485hp over the sloppy 450hp. I took the Kelford junks home and sent it back to Delta for a reevaluation. Delta said there was nothing wrong with them after looking at it. I marked the cams before I sent them to Delta to see if they are going to give me a new set or not. Delta regrind the cams even and sent them back to me. The guys at Delta are helpful and friendly about the complaint. I sent them the dyno sheets of the two brand of cams and they seem shocked too.

Delta customer service is definitely to notch. Their products to me is kinda iffy.

I am still sporting the old school Crower stage 3 cam shafts which were all I can afford at the time. I know they are suppose to suck compare to everything else but I love them. I made good power with them and love the way the car sound and idle. Since BC is related to Crower, I have faith in BC product. Some of my friends swear BC 288in/288ex cams are no good but I have not seen any comparison from them.