Cam test: I will be dyno test: delta hks 272, delta K272 and BC 272 cams!!!!

[Archer Fabrications]

Replacing those shit cams is on my list

 

[keltalon]

Replacing those shit cams is on my list

You gotto use what works for you I guess the bc272s like my setup.

 

[keltalon]

I would have posted these sooner but I just got them in a email from the dyno lab. His network was down and could not send them redlines hks 264s blue line Bc 272s

Here is the 31psi run

Post #78
land speed I don't think the stock cams would have compared to the bc272s. Look at this dyno graph bc 272s vs hks 264 if I had not ran into fuel issues the bc 272s although having similar down low power as the hks264 could have made as much as 30 to 40 hp up top than the hks 264s and the hks 264 are certainly an upgrade from the stock cam by a large margin. just my .02

 

[xxNocturnalxx]

Is there still plans to test the Delta 272/272 HKS grind? Or did I miss it?

 

[keltalon]

Replacing those shit cams is on my list

So I take it that you are unhappy with the bc cams. I would love to see another cam put down over 500ftlbs tq under 4800 rpm. What I find is that people will not take the time to play around with cam timing to find the sweet spot and tend to blame the cam. with the bc cams that's what it takes

 

[Archer Fabrications]

I'll be testing out the new bc 276/276 stage 3 in a few weeks

Op, did you find the kelford 272s to be the best? As in no sacrifice in lower end with the biggest top end gains? A dyno plot on evo forums indicated the kelfords were best, then came gsc s2 then hks.

Then again i guess your working with re grinds... Which isnt really the same as authentic kelfords.

 

[keltalon]

I'll be testing out the new bc 276/276 stage 3 in a few weeks

Op, did you find the kelford 272s to be the best? As in no sacrifice in lower end with the biggest top end gains? A dyno plot on evo forums indicated the kelfords were best, then came gsc s2 then hks.

Then again i guess your working with re grinds... Which isnt really the same as authentic kelfords.

Read my posts in this thread. Finding a cam to be the best doesn't mean the most hp. the k272 are massive and made more hp than the bc272 but for a daily driver which is how my car is set up they are not the cam of choice. Best to me means over all performance not just power.

Drivability and the whole nine yards if you catch my drift. The subtle thing about my setup is my car is it sounds, idle and drive like a stock car, no loppie idle, no gas smell and excellent gas mileage just a nice smooth mild innocent running engine.

This is what confuses people locally that's able to actually hear, see and ride in the car, they just don't understand how does this car make so much power and don't sound like a race car. Its the balance in set up. the bc272s (set up with 20hg of vacuum at idle) , cyclone manifold, quick spooling 6266 is one of the best combination I have put together in all the years working with these cars and the best part my wife will ride in it now because it doesn't smell like gas at stop signs from some over size set of cams

 

[92AWDHX40]

Nice comparison as im looking to upgrade my stock cams as well. Bc is on my list also im looking at the fp regrinds. Good numbers kel on that setup.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Read my posts in this thread. Finding a cam to be the best doesn't mean the most hp. the k272 are massive and made more hp than the bc272 but for a daily driver which is how my car is set up they are not the cam of choice. Best to me means over all performance not just power.

Drivability and the whole nine yards if you catch my drift. The subtle thing about my setup is my car is it sounds, idle and drive like a stock car, no loppie idle, no gas smell and excellent gas mileage just a nice smooth mild innocent running engine.

This is what confuses people locally that's able to actually hear, see and ride in the car, they just don't understand how does this car make so much power and don't sound like a race car. Its the balance in set up. the bc272s (set up with 20hg of vacuum at idle) , cyclone manifold, quick spooling 6266 is one of the best combination I have put together in all the years working with these cars and the best part my wife will ride in it now because it doesn't smell like gas at stop signs from some over size set of cams

I have bc 272's in my car also i know how they are. I was referring to the kelfords being best for drag

 

[keltalon]

I have bc 272's in my car also i know how they are. I was referring to the kelfords being best for drag

Oh no doubt!

 

[92AWDHX40]

Kel what do you suggest for around 450 hp for cams, that's my next goal.

 

[keltalon]

Kel what do you suggest for around 450 hp for cams, that's my next goal.

Bc272 installed 0 degree on exhaust and 6 degree retard on the intake cam. You will love them! If you want something different hks264 installed straight up will also get the job done

 

[92AWDHX40]

Got it thanks man.

 

[keltalon]

Got it thanks man.

No problem you welcome.

 

[ceedawg]

Wow I bet its a surprise to some folks that they could make 600+ on a 264 264 setup with the right balance of parts.

 

[boost97gst]

How do Crower 272s stack up? I have heard they are "better" than bc 272s and more along the lines of an hks 272.

BTW, i just got off the phone a few hours ago with delta. They will indeed make me a kelford 272 regrind. They are not listed and you have to ask for them. I would need to send in my crower 272s, NOT stock cams for this to be done. Total cost for both cams: 140. He said the crower would make a good core to do the k272 grind on. I know very little about cams and degreeing them in but its in the works.
In fact, im thinking the crower 272s i have now might be worth keeping. Coupled with some supertech dual valve springs, head porting and a 3786FP i think i can hit 600whp. But the top end of the K272 is very tempting.
Any thoughts on my cams? Keep em or go K272 for $140?

 

[keltalon]

How do Crower 272s stack up? I have heard they are "better" than bc 272s and more along the lines of an hks 272.

BTW, i just got off the phone a few hours ago with delta. They will indeed make me a kelford 272 regrind. They are not listed and you have to ask for them. I would need to send in my crower 272s, NOT stock cams for this to be done. Total cost for both cams: 140. He said the crower would make a good core to do the k272 grind on. I know very little about cams and degreeing them in but its in the works.
In fact, im thinking the crower 272s i have now might be worth keeping. Coupled with some supertech dual valve springs, head porting and a 3786FP i think i can hit 600whp. But the top end of the K272 is very tempting.
Any thoughts on my cams? Keep em or go K272 for $140?

I don't have any experience with the crower brands but I do have a buddy that loves them and have been running them for a long time. at 140.00 I must say that can be tempting. send killa colt a pm DSM Forums - View Profile: Killa Colt He is the one that is running the crower cams and recently purchased a set of k272s and installed them in a friends car he has some very valuable information that can put you in the right direction towards your goal If you look at my setup you can tell I am not a fan of a lot of rmp, just too harsh on the engine in my book. That is why I built my car to get it down low and let me tell you I love it this way and so does my oil pump and the rest of my engine is happy as well

 

[boost97gst]

Helpful as always, thanks kel!

 

[keltalon]

Wow I bet its a surprise to some folks that they could make 600+ on a 264 264 setup with the right balance of parts.

I agree with you I made 504hp 488tq bw s259 hks 264 264 cams stock intake manifold several years ago

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Finally done reading all this. Only took me...um, however many hours. Lol.

Awesome thread. Just wish that 1.) You could've tested the GSC cams, and 2.) Wish these cams could've been tested on different displacement motors. I'm sure the "streetablility" of bigger cams on a stroker would be much different than on a 2.0 motor. Or so I'd assume anyway.

And sorry to hear about all the bad luck you were having.

 

[keltalon]

Finally done reading all this. Only took me...um, however many hours. Lol.

Awesome thread. Just wish that 1.) You could've tested the GSC cams, and 2.) Wish these cams could've been tested on different displacement motors. I'm sure the "streetablility" of bigger cams on a stroker would be much different than on a 2.0 motor. Or so I'd assume anyway.

And sorry to hear about all the bad luck you were having.

Thanks. Yeah there's a lot of information here that one can use to get them in the right direction as to cams. I have to admit that even I have to come back and read certain post from time to time for references especially on the cam gear adjustments:

 

[Fullthrottle7]

Thanks for your time and contribution any time we have a direct comparison like this its much better than trying to judge based on two different cars even if they do have the same parts technically, small variances can make dramatic changes!

I run 264/272 DKS since I originally had a EVOIII 16g and the old AMS test showed a 15lb/ft tq gain over 272/272 but after seeing this I hope to get some adj. gears and a full 272 setup!

My main reason for posting however was to maybe suggest another call to Delta on the Kelford regrinds. I am local to them here in WA and have been there several times over the years and have always been told they have to be cut from a new stick of billet because of the profile being so much larger than a standard 272 with the way Kelford advertises their duration, etc. If that has changed, thats cool, but be sure they aren't getting confused. As good of a job as they do with turning these sticks, they get confused often and need precise clarification. Many people have had the 264/272 combo get cut backwards (272Int/264exh) and other profile mismatches. I'll try to stop by this week if possible to ask them again and post up, unless you are pretty positive that this is now a possibility??

Thanks again for staying with this test I was watching from the first post and there are about 3 more pages since the last time I read through!

- Tyler

*Edit: Sry boost97, didn't see you said that you have to send Crower 272's not stockers, guess they are normally still billet cuts for most people. Still, $140/ea if you have the right set already is much cheaper than the quote I got for the fresh cuts from the billet blank!

 

[keltalon]

Just thought I update with one more comparison. This is a comparison of the old bc272 cams , reline on the graph, that I have been running since the cam test with a prototype bc276 cam , blue line on the graph. bc276 has these specifications. I have the bc 276 intake -2 degrees and exhaust +4 these settings gives the car, since mine is still a daily driver, excellent street manners. please disregard the bump in torque with the bc272 a misfire cause the bump to throw the torque number off a bit.

Intake: 11.07mm lift .436 inches
Exhaust 11.07mm lift .436 inches
Duration 216*/216*

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[keltalon]

Here is the graph in rpm the first comparison I lost the tach signal. by the way this is a fourth gear pull.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[keltalon]

Here is the d gear pull to 8850 redline the rpm. I am posting this one so that you can see how 4th gear loading of the dyno affects the dyno power curve and that the cams pull hard to redline. I was only able to build boost to 36psi in 3rd gear and 41 4th gear.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.