Cam test: I will be dyno test: delta hks 272, delta K272 and BC 272 cams!!!!

[coltboostin]

Well at the time this test was done the k272s was a exact copy of the kelford 272s. But kelford wasn't in agreement with copying their cams and made a little phone call to delta and told them to cease and desist. Therefore the current k272s don't have the same specs as the old ones.

Is this hearsay or fact? What was changed with their k272 grind?

 

[blizz99]

Well, that's discouraging because I just got a set of k272s a little bit ago for the new setup.

 

[keltalon]

Is this hearsay or fact? What was changed with their k272 grind?

Na its fact! Patent laws are serious....

 

[dexterholland04]

What was changed? There are quite a few of us who still swear by them no matter what!

 

[keltalon]

What was changed? There are quite a few of us who still swear by them no matter what!

That you will have to ask delta but one thing for sure they are not identical specs as kelford..

 

[BogusSVO]

Well at the time this test was done the k272s was a exact copy of the kelford 272s. But kelford wasn't in agreement with copying their cams and made a little phone call to delta and told them to cease and desist. Therefore the current k272s don't have the same specs as the old ones.

Is this hearsay or fact? What was changed with their k272 grind?

Na its fact! Patent laws are serious....

That you will have to ask delta but one thing for sure they are not identical specs as kelford..

Not 2 mins ago since I got off the phone with Delta Cams.
I spoke with Johnny there, and brought up this thread, and the pasts few posts.

What I was told is the Delta K272s are the same as the Kelford 272.

I asked about the pantent on a cam lobe, I was told there is no patent allowed on a mathmatical equation.

Since a cam lobe is nothing more than a math equation, Kelford can not have a patent on a specfic lobe.

Killercolt, I brought up your post, and spoke with Johnny about it.
He said he would look into it on his end, and see what he can find out.

But the long and short that I got out of it, was the K272 cams really need to be degreed in and the tune adjusted to get to get the full benifit from them.
They are not as drop in friendly as the HKS set up.

Give him few days to look into it, then give him a call.


I do not know patents, and the laws that go along with that subject.

Since there was a question about the grinds, I called and asked, and told Johnny I would be posting.

I hope this will ease the minds of those who have Delta cams in there cars.

 

[keltalon]

Not 2 mins ago since I got off the phone with Delta Cams.
I spoke with Johnny there, and brought up this thread, and the pasts few posts.

What I was told is the Delta K272s are the same as the Kelford 272.

I asked about the pantent on a cam lobe, I was told there is no patent allowed on a mathmatical equation.

Since a cam lobe is nothing more than a math equation, Kelford can not have a patent on a specfic lobe.

Killercolt, I brought up your post, and spoke with Johnny about it.
He said he would look into it on his end, and see what he can find out.

But the long and short that I got out of it, was the K272 cams really need to be degreed in and the tune adjusted to get to get the full benifit from them.
They are not as drop in friendly as the HKS set up.

Give him few days to look into it, then give him a call.


I do not know patents, and the laws that go along with that subject.

Since there was a question about the grinds, I called and asked, and told Johnny I would be posting.

I hope this will ease the minds of those who have Delta cams in there cars.

Well I was told otherwise by a kelford representative. Johnny himself told me that kelford called him up and there were a dispute regarding the copying of their cams and so on and so on he even johnny even told me that he had to change the name of his cams so do who know what the heck is going on.

Dale did you also call kelford??

 

[BogusSVO]

Well I was told otherwise by a kelford representative. Johnny himself told me that kelford called him up and there were a dispute regarding the copying of their cams and so on and so on he even johnny even told me that he had to change the name of his cams so do who know what the heck is going on.

Dale did you also call kelford??

No I have not called kelford. Thats a bit more long distance!!

Now I can understand Kelford having an issue with there name being on another company's product. I can see that phone call being made and Delta having to do a name change.

 

[keltalon]

No I have not called kelford. Thats a bit more long distance!!

Now I can understand Kelford having an issue with there name being on another company's product. I can see that phone call being made and Delta having to do a name change.

Well the kelford rep gave me the impression that delta had to change more than the name. Well I guess the battle goes on. This conversion was long time ago. I do remember I had to go back and change the kelford to k in every post I made in this thread .

 

[BogusSVO]

Kelford is out of New Zeland, and the importer to the USA is Motovicity.

So I wonder if the rep you spoke with was really from Kelford, or a rep of Motovicity?

 

[keltalon]

Kelford is out of New Zeland, and the importer to the USA is Motovicity.

So I wonder if the rep you spoke with was really from Kelford, or a rep of Motovicity?

I just know it was a kelford rep that contacted me, where he was from I can't say. They shown no interest when I started the cam testing but that changed when I started to toss their name around in this thread. the contact information I filled out explaining my intentions on testing cams was obtained from the main kelford site. I sent them the same contact information I sent gsc, comp, brian crower, delta, and several other cam makers about testing cams. The only takers was delta and brian crower. But lo and behold half way through the testing kelford rep call me and spoke at length about cease and desist from using the kelford name in front of delta 272 grind patent violations and a whole lot of other bla bla. Since killa colt purchased the k272 cams based on the results of this cam test thread he contacted me and said that he didn't get the same results I assumed that kelford based on my conversation with john, had put an end to the copying. Like I said before its their battle not mine I am just the tester who didn't want to get caught in the legal cross fire

 

[BogusSVO]

So basicly... We are no better off today then we were yesterday about the Delta K272 grind.

 

[viperlp01]

Does Delta openly show an extremely detailed cam card for the K272s? Do they use a CNC grinder or masters? It sucks that a "legit" company profits off someone else's experience and knowledge of camshaft design... Its truly a shame..

The whole these need to be degreed for them to work properly tells me there quality control is messed up of the grind isn't as exact as Kelfords. Lobe separation is all your changing but if they are copying that should be easy to duplicate.

 

[keltalon]

So basicly... We are no better off today then we were yesterday about the Delta K272 grind.

I wouldn't say that. If john say they are the same and killa colt is the only one that wasn't getting the results of this test from his k272 then maybe he got a bad batch and john will work with him to resolve what is going on. My only explanation to the loss of power was maybe they were installed intake on the exhaust and exhaust on the intake (backwards). Once you take them out of the box it is kinda hard to tell the intake from the exhaust. But he insist they were installed right. So in conclusion if the cams haven't changed then

 

[keltalon]

Does

The whole these need to be degreed for them to work properly tells me there quality control is messed up of the grind isn't as exact as Kelfords. Lobe separation is all your changing but if they are copying that should be easy to duplicate.

I didn't degree any of the cams in this test. I installed them straight up and spent a considerable amount of time extracting power from each set of cams in this test via cam gears. even installed straight up Killa should not have lost that amount of power

 

[BogusSVO]

I do not see how he could have swapped cams. The CAS slot is in the back of the Intake cam. Thats how I tell them apart.

Even the 2g heads with front mount cam sensor has this set up.

 

[keltalon]

I do not see how he could have swapped cams. The CAS slot is in the back of the Intake cam. Thats how I tell them apart.

Even the 2g heads with front mount cam sensor has this set up.

Well delta intake and exhaust cams are cut from the same blanks. and both have the slots in them therefore this makes it difficult to tell one from the other if you are not paying attention.

 

[mysticj]

maybe the cams were meant for an Evo

 

[killercolt]

The Kelford 272in/ex copied cams I got back from Delta is in one of my friend engine now. The cam card even said Kelford grind. The intake and exhaust Kelford copies are ground from two intake cam billets. You can tel that both are intake cam billets by looking for the notch for the cas. You got to look at the cam gear side of the cam for the intake/exhaust engraving to tell which one is which. My friend has an 11:1 compression engine with a gtx3076r that has a divided t4 housing. He will be done with the car in a few weeks. We will be dynoing the car and then switch to maybe BC cams to see which will meet his need better.


I don't know what the issue is with the kelford 272in/ex copies but I was kinda sad that it did not bring us to the 500hp goal we wanted. Higher lift and longer duration on the intake cam compared to the HKS 264in/272ex combo and less power. I don't get it. Cams might be too big for turbo. Don't know.

The guys at Delta are definitely polite and helpful. I believe it was Johnny that help me out. Super polite and patient with me over the matter. The cams that they sent back to me were definitely ground correctly. All the lobes were the same size. I would not be too adamant about doing business with them again.

 

[viperlp01]

there not supposed to be the same size

 

[keltalon]

The Kelford 272in/ex copied cams I got back from Delta is in one of my friend engine now. The cam card even said Kelford grind. The intake and exhaust Kelford copies are ground from two intake cam billets. You can tel that both are intake cam billets by looking for the notch for the cas. You got to look at the cam gear side of the cam for the intake/exhaust engraving to tell which one is which. My friend has an 11:1 compression engine with a gtx3076r that has a divided t4 housing. He will be done with the car in a few weeks. We will be dynoing the car and then switch to maybe BC cams to see which will meet his need better.


I don't know what the issue is with the kelford 272in/ex copies but I was kinda sad that it did not bring us to the 500hp goal we wanted. Higher lift and longer duration on the intake cam compared to the HKS 264in/272ex combo and less power. I don't get it. Cams might be too big for turbo. Don't know.

The guys at Delta are definitely polite and helpful. I believe it was Johnny that help me out. Super polite and patient with me over the matter. The cams that they sent back to me were definitely ground correctly. All the lobes were the same size. I would not be too adamant about doing business with them again.

Good to hear

 

[killercolt]

there not supposed to be the same size

You know what i mean.

 

[coltboostin]

Not 2 mins ago since I got off the phone with Delta Cams.
I spoke with Johnny there, and brought up this thread, and the pasts few posts.

What I was told is the Delta K272s are the same as the Kelford 272.

I asked about the pantent on a cam lobe, I was told there is no patent allowed on a mathmatical equation.

Since a cam lobe is nothing more than a math equation, Kelford can not have a patent on a specfic lobe.

Killercolt, I brought up your post, and spoke with Johnny about it.
He said he would look into it on his end, and see what he can find out.

But the long and short that I got out of it, was the K272 cams really need to be degreed in and the tune adjusted to get to get the full benifit from them.
They are not as drop in friendly as the HKS set up.

Give him few days to look into it, then give him a call.


I do not know patents, and the laws that go along with that subject.

Since there was a question about the grinds, I called and asked, and told Johnny I would be posting.

I hope this will ease the minds of those who have Delta cams in there cars.

Considering people are "droping in" kelfords with -13-14=in/v and making great power, and the K272's are -6-8 with poor results unless degree'd, I dont think that is the case.

 

[keltalon]

New dyno numbers with the proven bc 272s and this is why I continue to run them

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dyno-talk/469698-finally-broke-cyclone-dyno-record.html

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Given the rev range, there is a very high likelihood stock 1G cams would have performed just as well.