2G Another M/T to Auto thread

[TJCTalon]

After many many years out of the DSM game, Im back guys! I just bought a super clean 97 TSi. After letting go of my 96 auto back in '15, I know I want an auto again. Unfortunately my new talon is a 5 spd.

Im going to start tracking down all the parts to swap this thing to an auto. I have a few question for the experts.

All the parts I know I need for the swap are: (correct me if im wrong please)

Auto transmission w/ TC + flexplate
Intermediate shaft
Transfercase
Rear Diff (w/ cv shafts if swaping from lsd to non lsd or visversa)
Interior shifter
TCM

What else am I missing? Do I need and entire auto engine wiring harness? Ill need to wire in a couple plugs if im not mistaken right?
What about installing the TCM? I do not want to run a shift box only. Full line pressure shifting gets very old, plus I like to just cruise sometimes. Im really hoping this isnt a bigger project then Im thinking it is.

Thanks,
TJ

 

[pottersgst]

So I just completed a manual swap in My 95 gsx. So just doing opposite of what I did.
You need the front axles along with intermediate, if u get a rear that matches your current setup(lsd vs nonlsd) you keep your current axles.
You need the passenger side mount and brackets along with rear bracket and mount.
Along with shifter there is a couple cables( from trans to shifter, from shifter to brake pedal, shifter to steering coloum.) Brake pedal is different with connecter for cable from shifter that releases the lock on shifter from park to drive. You can by pass this and keep your pedal, but there will not be a safety to stop from going in gear with out touching brake pedal.
Auto trans to manual trans transfer cases have 6 bolts that mount transfer, manual has 4 long and 2 short, autos have 3 and 3, so you will need 1 bolt grade 7 bolt( you can find by searching forums for size, I did.)
There is a few plugs you will need as tcu has quite a few plugs, swapping harnesses while trans is out is pretty easy, just be aware of cam angle sensor location if swapping between 95-96 and 97-99.
Shift box isn't a bad idea to bypass harness work and nowadays you can program your firmness, so not all out pressure every shift. But not for everyone. However your going to be doing wiring regardless just depends on your want of control over everything. Plus not solely relying on a computer from the 90s
Forced Four has a nice setups to not have to find all those pieces !

Also depends on what your car is but the starter plate on a auto gsx is differant then the plate that comes with a manual gsx or either gst.
Also realize that yes your need a flex plate, but there is also a shim plate and a bearing that sit on the crankshaft for autos you will need that

 

[TJCTalon]

There is a few plugs you will need as tcu has quite a few plugs, swapping harnesses while trans is out is pretty easy, just be aware of cam angle sensor location if swapping between 95-96 and 97-99.

So I do need an entire engine harness or just a few plugs?

I guess I need to read up on the forced four box. So it sounds like it shifts on its own now? Back when I had an auto with the forced four shift box, there was a switch that would allow me to up or down shift with the control box. But also it would drive normally with the switch off.

I just don't want to have to hit a button everytime I shift.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

They have models that shift automatically for you now. I was one of the/if not the first to use one. Back then it was a Smart 100.1, now it is a Smart 150 (and there is one for sale in the classifieds if you beat me to it, ). I had to make my own shift maps back then but now they come with some shift maps installed to start with but you can taylor it to suit your needs. The rest was pretty well covered by @pottersgst
https://www.forcedfour.com/smart150/index.htm
Marty

 

[TJCTalon]

They have models that shift automatically for you now. I was one of the/if not the first to use one. Back then it was a Smart 100.1, now it is a Smart 150 (and there is one for sale in the classifieds if you beat me to it, ). I had to make my own shift maps back then but now they come with some shift maps installed to start with but you can taylor it to suit your needs. The rest was pretty well covered by @pottersgst
https://www.forcedfour.com/smart150/index.htm
Marty

Well that definitely solves the tcm problem with the swap. That's amazing. I'll be going that route for sure.

So with that shift box and no tcm, what am I looking at for wiring in the auto?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

VSS signal for speed, TPS signal for throttle position, 12v+ and ground for the shiftbox itself, then just wire the solenoids wiring to the shiftbox wiring and the little box will tuck away just about anywhere. Mine is where the TCU used to be, but alot smaller. If you are a 2g, then it will also have a lockup solenoid wire, I believe.
Its a universal box and can control 4, 5 and 6 speed auto's also, if I have read the info correct.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

My unit is not near as nice as the newer ones but I can flip a switch and go from auto mode to manual shift mode and I can change shift maps, one for normal stuff and one that is aggressive for racing. It has since been discovered that my unit needs to either use RPM or Speed but not both, but it's "old" in terms of technology. Shawn has some good stuff.
Click HERE and you can look at my auto car. It's highly modified now, but I got her all stock and she was fun, but I hurt her so she is what she is now. Wish I had been easier on her, dammit.
Marty

 

[pottersgst]

Marty is definitely the expert in these over me but sorry that one I had for sale just sold. They are definitely the way to go tho if doing the swap unless your scared of wiring, but honestly could be done in a evening or less. There is a thread on all 2g dsm engine bay connectors that is useful to find which plugs you will need.
Also may be a 95 auto harness going up for sale shortly to which would be helpful with swap or to just use connectors

 

[TJCTalon]

Marty is definitely the expert in these over me but sorry that one I had for sale just sold. They are definitely the way to go tho if doing the swap unless your scared of wiring, but honestly could be done in a evening or less. There is a thread on all 2g dsm engine bay connectors that is useful to find which plugs you will need.
Also may be a 95 auto harness going up for sale shortly to which would be helpful with swap or to just use connectors

Ill keep my eye out. You can also send me a PM if you want....

Its not going to be easy finding this piece by piece. I just about have to find an auto donor car.

 

[pottersgst]

That's what I did, I used a gst that was rotting away for all the small things and bought a trans transfer and rear from @jersygsx off here. Unfortunately shipping those kind of items is not a simple process. Ill shoot you a message as i do have basically an entire swap I'm listing shortly from my 95 gsx

 

[evil_eagletalon]

Trans to block spacer “plate”
Trans cooler
Trans temp gauge
Shifter cable
Pedals or just leave your clutch pedal on the floor like i did.
On a 1g the front rear mount brackets are different but can me made to work on my 1g i kept same rear mount and on the front one i made a new hole for the bolt through mount.

 

[TJCTalon]

Trans to block spacer “plate”
Trans cooler
Trans temp gauge
Shifter cable
Pedals or just leave your clutch pedal on the floor like i did.
On a 1g the front rear mount brackets are different but can me made to work on my 1g i kept same rear mount and on the front one i made a new hole for the bolt through mount.

What do you mean by trans temp gauge? Is that something in the cluster?

 

[pottersgst]

Unfortunately it's only in the cluster for a auto the manual clusters have those lights blocked off so if you wanted that you would need to swap the harness and cluster
Or just go aftermarket and get urself a gauge to make sure you don't overheat.
Trans cooler is one I forgot about
Rear mount bracket on a 2g is vastly different from autos to manual along with the passenger side bracket and mount. Fronts are same on 2gs

 

[evil_eagletalon]

What do you mean by trans temp gauge? Is that something in the cluster?

An aftermarket gauge capable of reading 400 degrees. Based of what ive read on w4a33.com

If you havent already go and check out that website lots of great info!

 

[pottersgst]

Agree they do have useful tips for swapping to a auto, I did the reverse swap so i have a slightly differant perspective .
This pic is basically a swap out of a gsx except for the trans cooler that now I have to dig out and clean as well good catch

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[TJCTalon]

Agree they do have useful tips for swapping to a auto, I did the reverse swap so i have a slightly differant perspective .
This pic is basically a swap out of a gsx except for the trans cooler that now I have to dig out and clean as well good catch

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

UGH can I haves????

 

[evil_eagletalon]

I cant wait to feel what an auto dsm is like. Before i did the swap the car was on a “big” 16g but those manual trans and clutch pedal problems could never bang gears. Now with the push of a button ill be in the next gear “fourced four” box. With a s257-sxe should be scooting!

 

[blktalon3]

Pilot bushing for the crank. Bolts for the TC to flex plate.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Pilot bushing for the crank. Bolts for the TC to flex plate.

Came here to say this. Without this you’ll have a bad time. I think Paul Volk/ @99gst_racer still makes the bushing.

 

[TJCTalon]

Came here to say this. Without this you’ll have a bad time. I think Paul Volk/ @99gst_racer still makes the bushing.

Does arp make bolts for tq to flex plate? If I remember correctly, people back in the day had troubles keeping bolts from backing out. Any better solutions?

 

[CrackedDSM]

Does arp make bolts for tq to flex plate? If I remember correctly, people back in the day had troubles keeping bolts from backing out. Any better solutions?

Tons of red loctite or just give each bolt a tac weld. ARP does make bolts.

Personally I’ve never had them back out with the red loctite but your methods may vary.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Red Locktite here also.

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

Does arp make bolts for tq to flex plate? If I remember correctly, people back in the day had troubles keeping bolts from backing out. Any better solutions?

use oem 6 pointed bolts, 12 points are a bugger on such thin heads. oem bolts are available still. if you use the stock flex plate and spacer it will help load the bolts some anyway. unless you are making crazy power stock torque or just above is fine. any more and use a bit of red shock proof loctite to help but just a bit otherwise you over glue it

 

[TJCTalon]

use oem 6 pointed bolts, 12 points are a bugger on such thin heads. oem bolts are available still. if you use the stock flex plate and spacer it will help load the bolts some anyway. unless you are making crazy power stock torque or just above is fine. any more and use a bit of red shock proof loctite to help but just a bit otherwise you over glue it

I don't know what power goals this car will have yet. If I know myself, the car will snowball into something bigger then intended. A built engine is definitely in the cards...

I have an IPT converter and kingly flex plate already. I'd rather be safe than sorry, if I can use arp hardware that's what I prefer to do.