Altered Mental Status (1G AWD 5spd)

[CrackedDSM]

So did you ditch the pcv all together and just run one line to the can from the valve cover, and one line from the manifold? Or am I missing something, because I may end up doing this.

I’ll take a picture. recheck this post in a couple minutes, I’ll edit it with the picture.

 

[DreamChaser7]

Is the turbo under warranty? I think every one of us has felt like this about our dsm cars.. i have personally replaced everything on this car by my own hands now... motor im on a 3rd due to others screwing me over.

Theu are worth it as a fun car but takes a person who loves them and has time/money and desire to fix issues. Cars are 30 plus years old now

I guess what im saying is do whats best for you and this community is here for support

I agree and will add this, take it with a grain of salt Cory, which I know you will. You bought a car that was severely neglected for some time, after being hacked up, with a platform known to be finicky at best. I personally would have expected non-stop issues trying to get it where you want it without a full tear-down and rebuild. Obviously not everyone is down for that though. I bought my car a long time ago, fought issues trying to get it 100% even all stock (mostly due to negligent garage), and decided to park it way back then until I could afford to do it right. I got to drive it for like 3 weeks and fell in this much love…24 years later (and a LOT of depression) that transformed into what we have now but I guess my message is this..if you truly love this platform, make your brain and emotions accept that this is what it is going to give you with this approach, consider a more in depth overhaul, or step away. Those appear to be the only options to me at this point. Much love bro.

 

[CrackedDSM]

I agree and will add this, take it with a grain of salt Cory, which I know you will. You bought a car that was severely neglected for some time, after being hacked up, with a platform known to be finicky at best. I personally would have expected non-stop issues trying to get it where you want it without a full tear-down and rebuild. Obviously not everyone is down for that though. I bought my car a long time ago, fought issues trying to get it 100% even all stock (mostly due to negligent garage), and decided to park it way back then until I could afford to do it right. I got to drive it for like 3 weeks and fell in this much love…24 years later (and a LOT of depression) that transformed into what we have now but I guess my message is this..if you truly love this platform, make your brain and emotions accept that this is what it is going to give you with this approach, consider a more in depth overhaul, or step away. Those appear to be the only options to me at this point. Much love bro.

I appreciate the words for sure. The thing that set me off though is I replaced old with brand new and then when I thought it was bad it didn’t make sense. If it was an original part I could understand while being simultaneously annoyed. But this was infuriating because I spent $1500+ on something that didn’t last 500 miles?! That was the thought at the time.


Thankfully, seems like it’s not the case. But that’s why it was such a gut punch. I didn’t expect a top dollar brand name new part to be the problem so soon.

 

[DreamChaser7]

I get that, and I am by no means an expert on this shiz yet. That’s actually one of my biggest fears now when I get to that point. Installing expensive crap, having something go wrong, and not knowing if it’s something I did wrong. Oh well time will tell. Keep at it bud. Something I tell myself when down, look how far it’s came, now how much needs to be done.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Ordered a 1/8th NPT to 3/8ths Barb fitting to delete the factory PCV entirely. Not gonna lie, I am extremely tempted to order a low profile 1/8th NPT male to female 90* fitting so I don't have to fight the hose on and possibly touch the TPS but we'll see.


Gonna try to throw the brakes on tomorrow, but we'll see how I feel and when I wake up.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Don't forget that the threads on these cars engines are BSPT.

 

[Stapl3]

Pick it apart fellas and roast me, but enjoy as well. How ridiculous. Just gonna remove the boost controller until I hit the 500 mile mark.

Since you seem insistent of not checking "Disable MAF Compensation w/SD operation", I would at least zero out the sliders and the global adjustment. My interpretation of that check box is if it is not checked, then MAF compensation will be applied. If so, your crazy slider adjustments AND your -17.2 global adjustment would be applied to the values used on the SD table.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Since you seem insistent of not checking "Disable MAF Compensation w/SD operation", I would at least zero out the sliders and the global adjustment. My interpretation of that check box is if it is not checked, then MAF compensation will be applied. If so, your crazy slider adjustments AND your -17.2 global adjustment would be applied to the values used on the SD table.

It’s how the guy who tuned it got it running and driving.


Now that I’ve had the injectors flowed and replaced the pump and the AFPR diaphragm the entire tune needs to be adjusted anyway, so plan this coming week or two is to just start over from scratch and only use deadtimes, global, and VE to tune the car.


I have many other irons in the fire right now though that are all more important than retuning the entire thing.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Sadly, no time to install the brakes today. But, I've got this weekend off. I sincerely hope I am left alone long enough to do the job. I want to install them and get it all ironed out.


Also messed with deadtimes and stuff, car responded well. Did several 3rd and 4th gear rips to like 5500-6000RPM with no smoke-show/super secret spy smoke screen. Adjusted the BISS screw which I've been meaning to do, and overall happy with it. This thing HATES cold starts when its cold outside, but honestly....it runs and drives decent. There's still that weird little bog I get in like 2nd gear at 1500-1800rpm, but I'm 150% confident it's the tune. Can't say I'm looking forward to starting over from scratch, because I still have PTSD from last time I tried before Scott had to tag in and save me. But...I am determined. Don't really know when to give up.


Anyway, thanks all for sticking with me this long. I did replace the battery in the Edge today, but still gonna drive the Talon to work tomorrow. Need to put some break-in miles on this clutch and engine. Plus it's fun driving this damn headache, pain in the ass, trolling 90's crapbox. Lol. Said with love.

 

[Stapl3]

It’s how the guy who tuned it got it running and driving.

And how has that been working out for you?

 

[CrackedDSM]

And how has that been working out for you?

Honestly it’s been passable. He never promised or said it was gonna be some thorough tune and was clear it was just basically to get it “driving”. It’s supposed to be just something to get me rolling before I try it myself and it’s something he did in like 15 minutes for free on his vacation time.


I’ve just been dragging my feet. I’m not disappointed with it though. It drives okay, there’s just cracks starting to show now. But I was told there would be.


Again. I’ll repeat myself, plan is to start over and do it the proper way but the car runs and drives and makes turbo noises right now while there’s an army of other things to fight first.

 

[JG63]

And how has that been working out for you?

Been quietly following this thread. Thank you BTW because it is informative and entertaining!

But I was laughing at that comment from Staple3 because I was thinking that trying to read into just text, it’s hard to tell the feeling behind it. But it seems that was a super sarcastic comment and I loved it . Gotta love the forums!

 

[CrackedDSM]

So, just to confirm the “proper” way to tune speed density from scratch.


1) Upload settings and get it to start.

2) ignore how shitty the idle is and focus on WOT tune matching global to 100% VE. (Meaning set the wot cells to 100, and use global until it matches commanded afr)

3) After WOT, tune cruise via VE table?

4) after cruise, focus on idle. What do I use here to dial idle in?

5) do not use mafcomp or sliders.



Please, please help with my questions below too if you know.


1) say WOT and cruise go well. What do I do if idle will not respond to VE and dead time changes.

2) for idle and idle only, what do I do? Do I dial VE cells at idle until it reads .25-.28 at idle?

3) say I do that and it still doesn’t idle or has an afr that’s way off target? Do I use dead times?



Again, please help me here. I’m gonna really try to tackle the tune this weekend and want it to be done right but these things are something I always end up struggling with. Especially idle.


Edit - for information sake, I've been reading HighBoooost/Aaron Ruppert's "how to tune 1G SD" PDF and his recommendation is basically backwards. Dial idle in with deadtimes, then adjust VE to make it .25-.28 at idle. Go cruise with it locked in openloop and use the VEAdjust tool to dial in cruising, then use global to dial in WOT. Using deadtimes to fix any issues with combinedFT in between everything.

 

[enriquez2000]

So, just to confirm the “proper” way to tune speed density from scratch.


1) Upload settings and get it to start.

2) ignore how shitty the idle is and focus on WOT tune matching global to 100% VE. (Meaning set the wot cells to 100, and use global until it matches commanded afr)

3) After WOT, tune cruise via VE table?

4) after cruise, focus on idle. What do I use here to dial idle in?

5) do not use mafcomp or sliders.



Please, please help with my questions below too if you know.


1) say WOT and cruise go well. What do I do if idle will not respond to VE and dead time changes.

2) for idle and idle only, what do I do? Do I dial VE cells at idle until it reads .25-.28 at idle?

3) say I do that and it still doesn’t idle or has an afr that’s way off target? Do I use dead times?



Again, please help me here. I’m gonna really try to tackle the tune this weekend and want it to be done right but these things are something I always end up struggling with. Especially idle.

You need to start with IDLE TUNING and making sure your global and trims fall in line with close to what they are supposed to be! You should do NO other tuning until you get this done! Check your DMs but here is a start

Bring the car up to operating temps,
keep them at least 195 or more so trims can adjust, under this they may not adjust
fully. Once completely warm the first thing you should look at is combined fuel
trim. You have to get it stable around 0 (+/- 5%). Hit the ECU configure live
button and then go to the fuel tab, click the “save change as they are made button”
so every time you make an adjustment you don’t have to hit the save button. If
combinedFT are mostly (-) decrease deadtime if mostly (+) increase deadtime.
After giving the dead time button a few click go back to your live datalog and see
if combinedFT got closer to 0 or not, keep repeating this process until you get the
combinedFT around 0.
Once that is done you can now look at the Airflow/rev reading. It should be
reading .25 if not an adjustment needs to be made, (it seems that when the fans are
on this number increases, to my best guess, wait till the fans are off to set the SD
cell to get that .25 number). Go to the SD tab under the ECU Configure live tab
that you already opened at the top of the screen. Hit the track datalog button and it
will show what cell the ECU is using at idle. Now if the airflow/rev is real low
that means you got a boost leak but if it is around that .25 (+/-.05) you just need to
adjust that cell the ECU is using to get Airflow/rev to that .25 number. So go ahead
and hit the track datalog button again to make it stop tracking so you can make an
adjustment. If your Airflow/revs are too high subtract numbers from the
highlighted cell in 2 point increments and if they are low add 2 points, and of
course hit save to ecu after you have made a change. Immediately go back to the
live log and see what happened to Airflow/rev, if it got closer you are on the right
track and then stop and don’t make any more adjustments until you check on the
CombinedFT again to see how far out of adjustment it got. Get combinedFT back
in line adjusting deadtime as you did earlier, it should only need a few clicks to
have CombinedFT back in line again. Keep doing this until Airflow/rev is .25 and
combinedFT is around 0. Don’t worry if the deadtime is a crazy number from
what you started at

 

[CrackedDSM]

You need to start with IDLE TUNING and making sure your global and trims fall in line with close to what they are supposed to be! You should do NO other tuning until you get this done!

Bring the car up to operating temps,
keep them at least 195 or more so trims can adjust, under this they may not adjust
fully. Once completely warm the first thing you should look at is combined fuel
trim. You have to get it stable around 0 (+/- 5%). Hit the ECU configure live
button and then go to the fuel tab, click the “save change as they are made button”
so every time you make an adjustment you don’t have to hit the save button. If
combinedFT are mostly (-) decrease deadtime if mostly (+) increase deadtime.
After giving the dead time button a few click go back to your live datalog and see
if combinedFT got closer to 0 or not, keep repeating this process until you get the
combinedFT around 0.
Once that is done you can now look at the Airflow/rev reading. It should be
reading .25 if not an adjustment needs to be made, (it seems that when the fans are
on this number increases, to my best guess, wait till the fans are off to set the SD
cell to get that .25 number). Go to the SD tab under the ECU Configure live tab
that you already opened at the top of the screen. Hit the track datalog button and it
will show what cell the ECU is using at idle. Now if the airflow/rev is real low
that means you got a boost leak but if it is around that .25 (+/-.05) you just need to
adjust that cell the ECU is using to get Airflow/rev to that .25 number. So go ahead
and hit the track datalog button again to make it stop tracking so you can make an
adjustment. If your Airflow/revs are too high subtract numbers from the
highlighted cell in 2 point increments and if they are low add 2 points, and of
course hit save to ecu after you have made a change. Immediately go back to the
live log and see what happened to Airflow/rev, if it got closer you are on the right
track and then stop and don’t make any more adjustments until you check on the
CombinedFT again to see how far out of adjustment it got. Get combinedFT back
in line adjusting deadtime as you did earlier, it should only need a few clicks to
have CombinedFT back in line again. Keep doing this until Airflow/rev is .25 and
combinedFT is around 0. Don’t worry if the deadtime is a crazy number from
what you started at

Yeah that's what I'm reading on Aaron's PDF. I saved it to my computer and I'm gonna memorize it.


I can't remember where I read it or who said it, but I swear someone told me to do it backwards. Which never really made sense to me. Gonna just try it this way and see what happens.


Messed with it for a little bit earlier just for giggles and man this thing fights me so hard. With deadtimes at +275 it revs so fast and clean, but won't idle. Using deadtime down to like -400/-500 range and it'll idle, but then it bogs/dies when you try to rev it. Adjusting VE kind of makes the problem worse. Meh. Not gonna worry about it anymore and just try to fight it this weekend. Might as well go ahead and order new plugs so when I foul these I can swap the new ones in. Lol.

 

[enriquez2000]

Yeah that's what I'm reading on Aaron's PDF. I saved it to my computer and I'm gonna memorize it.


I can't remember where I read it or who said it, but I swear someone told me to do it backwards. Which never really made sense to me. Gonna just try it this way and see what happens.


Messed with it for a little bit earlier just for giggles and man this thing fights me so hard. With deadtimes at +275 it revs so fast and clean, but won't idle. Using deadtime down to like -400/-500 range and it'll idle, but then it bogs/dies when you try to rev it. Adjusting VE kind of makes the problem worse. Meh. Not gonna worry about it anymore and just try to fight it this weekend. Might as well go ahead and order new plugs so when I foul these I can swap the new ones in. Lol.

beauty of how cheap NGKs are! if you want me to remote in at some point let me know. I love helping because these cars when done right can rip!

 

[CrackedDSM]

beauty of how cheap NGKs are! if you want me to remote in at some point let me know. I love helping because these cars when done right can rip!

I very really may take you up on that offer. I'm gonna give it the college try first, but may have to tag someone in who can nudge me along in the right direction. I want to do it right.


The tiny little peek I get at how amazing it is when it's on +275 deadtimes and entirely on VE/SD and no MAFComp is phenomenal. I want it to be rocksteady reliable and not just randomly be idiotic at random times. With this MAFComp tuned SD stuff, it's randomly a drama queen.


It also hot restarts infinitely better when using solely VE/tuning the proper way.

 

[enriquez2000]

I very really may take you up on that offer. I'm gonna give it the college try first, but may have to tag someone in who can nudge me along in the right direction. I want to do it right.


The tiny little peek I get at how amazing it is when it's on +275 deadtimes and entirely on VE/SD and no MAFComp is phenomenal. I want it to be rocksteady reliable and not just randomly be idiotic at random times. With this MAFComp tuned SD stuff, it's randomly a drama queen.


It also hot restarts infinitely better when using solely VE/tuning the proper way.

DIaled right you shouldnt have those problems.

Knowing nothing of your set up is this your true injector size? and are you really at 37psi? Almost everyone runs 45

based on profile you should look more like this

 

[Anfurnyy]

You need to start with IDLE TUNING and making sure your global and trims fall in line with close to what they are supposed to be! You should do NO other tuning until you get this done! Check your DMs but here is a start

The reason people get the car running enough to do WOT is so that their VE aren't inflated to mask incorrect global fuel.

If you know you're hitting target afr at 100% VE at 5-6k be or close too then you know your global should be where it needs to be. Obviously this changes on every setup but this is a pretty damn good general rule.

I'm definitely no tuner but it makes sense to me. If your VE values are inflated or deflated due to bad global fuel settings then other things that rely on VE for calculations will be way off, like Airflow and such.
I have zero doubt that doing idle first will get the car tuned and running but it effects other things too.

 

[enriquez2000]

The reason people get the car running enough to do WOT is so that their VE aren't inflated to mask incorrect global fuel.

If you know you're hitting target afr at 100% VE at 5-6k be or close too then you know your global should be where it needs to be. Obviously this changes on every setup but this is a pretty damn good general rule.

I'm definitely no tuner but it makes sense to me. If your VE values are inflated or deflated due to bad global fuel settings then other things that rely on VE for calculations will be way off, like Airflow and such.
I have zero doubt that doing idle first will get the car tuned and running but it effects other things too.

There is a tool that I have where IF you tune WOT and VE goes way out of whack you can use VE to reset global.

That usually only happens due to bad injector data.

 

[CrackedDSM]

DIaled right you shouldnt have those problems.

Knowing nothing of your set up is this your true injector size? and are you really at 37psi? Almost everyone runs 45
View attachment 750967

based on profile you should look more like this
View attachment 750968

Nah these injectors have been flowed and they flow more like 1150’s. Setting global to 1120’s and 43psi fuel had it close.

The reason people get the car running enough to do WOT is so that their VE aren't inflated to mask incorrect global fuel.

If you know you're hitting target afr at 100% VE at 5-6k be or close too then you know your global should be where it needs to be. Obviously this changes on every setup but this is a pretty damn good general rule.

I'm definitely no tuner but it makes sense to me. If your VE values are inflated or deflated due to bad global fuel settings then other things that rely on VE for calculations will be way off, like Airflow and such.
I have zero doubt that doing idle first will get the car tuned and running but it effects other things too.

Makes sense too.

 

[enriquez2000]

Nah these injectors have been flowed and they flow more like 1150’s. Setting global to 1120’s and 43psi fuel had it close.

I would expect it to be!

 

[DreamChaser7]

beauty of how cheap NGKs are! if you want me to remote in at some point let me know. I love helping because these cars when done right can rip!

Imma try and remember that in like 5 years…

 

[DSMPT]

Blows the dipstick out of the tube and sprays oil.

This was my solution.

 

[CrackedDSM]

This was my solution.
View attachment 750970
View attachment 750971

Did you just tighten the metal tube down with the clamp so it squeezes it shut, or is there more wizardry? Kinda hard to tell from the picture.


After switching the can to a vented setup, the dipstick has yet to pop out. But, wouldn't mind a little preventative measures.


Also, just to reiterate, I have a 48 hour shift to work starting now and need to rest up Friday obviously after work. So I won't be able to touch the car or even get close to it really until like Friday evening. Just a heads up so no one asks me to do something or test something, and I can't.


Really cautiously excited. I sincerely hope I can get it ironed out the proper way because I would love to be able to just get in the car and start it and not have to worry about it suddenly acting different or dying on me and being a bear to restart. Even with the pre-alpha SD map I had today it hot restarted immediately. Like a champ. Switching it back to my current "tune" immediately prompted the endless cranking and not wanting to hot restart.