Resolved 2G Engine Rebuild

[RubyEclipse]

Hello everyone! I just purchased my 1996 Eclipse GST a few months ago, had some issues with a few different things. Most recent was car was smoking and running very uneasy, so I decided to pull the engine. I am going to do a full engine rebuild-ish, I bought new wisco heads, still looking at the rods I want, if there’s anything anyone thinks I should buy and upgrade I would love help! Trying to push more power but not an insane amount seeing how I want this to be more of a daily but not quite. Thank you guys!

 

[RubyEclipse]

Normally you would see the notch in the surface of the gear in the window of the cam gear alignment tool.

I can, I see both of them, do they not show in the photo?

 

[Justin DuBois]

There are notches, the intake cam has only 1 notch and the exhaust has 2, each across from each other

better picture, same tool

https://www.dsmtuners.com/attachments/0ed1b40c-4858-434f-a129-b3f899e9a7c3-jpeg.656282/

I can, I see both of them, do they not show in the photo?

I see red paint, I don't see the notches.

 

[DSMPT]

What I can tell by the pics is actually (miraculously) the cams are in phase even he is putting the cam gear lock tool in backwards or in a wrong position by forcing, or the cam gear lock tool is not for 4g63, defective or so. But the valve timing is still off, would be retarded by a cam gear tooth on each cam after putting the tension. I don't know what's going on with the lock tool, but the lock tool window should show a tooth above.
Usually it's difficult or impossible to insert it in wrong position or direction due to the tooth angle/position difference, but somehow he could. I am worried maybe he is stretching the belt too much between cam gears.
Anyways he has to redo it by taking his time.

P.S. I would replace the tensioner arm bolt washer with a larger one.

 

[pauleyman]

Please just take that tool off and show us a pic. And clip that first zip tie on the intake cam. It's pulling the belt down

The washer on the tensioner arm must be fixed. Even looks like it might be missing. There should be a big washer the same diameter as the tensioner arm OD. You'll notice when tightened down it doesn't actually touch the arm. Merely retains it.

Back to the cams, the notches in the window aren't even facing the right direction.

I just looked at that tool front and back. You shouldn't have even been able to install it like you did. Something is very wrong. Please show us a pic of the tool then flip it over and show the backside so we can see orientation. In the window the top of a tooth should be seen on the intake cam not the exhaust cam as you have it. Tool shouldn't have allowed that. I'm concerned tool was marked upside down. I'd rather work without it.

What I can tell by the pics is actually (miraculously) the cams are in phase even he is putting the cam gear lock tool in backwards or in a wrong position by forcing, or the cam gear lock tool is not for 4g63, defective or so. But the valve timing is still off, would be retarded by a cam gear tooth on each cam after putting the tension. I don't know what's going on with the lock tool, but the lock tool window should show a tooth above.
Usually it's difficult or impossible to insert it in wrong position or direction due to the tooth angle/position difference, but somehow he could. I am worried maybe he is stretching the belt too much between cam gears.
Anyways he has to redo it by taking his time.

P.S. I would replace the tensioner arm bolt washer with a larger one.

Hiroshi I concur. Something is seriously wrong with that tool.

I'm going to make one more comment. Do you have the factory service manual? My suggestion is stop here until you have it and have reviewed the timing belt section. It's available online on this site. FACTORY manual. Not Chilton or Haynes. No need to buy it (although I like having a paper copy)

 

[RubyEclipse]

I fixed it with the tool, got her lined up. You guys were right, I was 1 notch off. Also what tensioner are you talking?

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[Justin DuBois]

I fixed it with the tool, got her lined up. You guys were right, I was 1 notch off. Also what tensioner are you talking?

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Yes - that’s the notches, but why upside down?

 

[RubyEclipse]

Yes - that’s the notches, but why upside down?

I just flipped it around and that’s what fit

Is the oil pump off or will this be fixed when belt is tightened? I have the old hydraulic tensioner sitting here locked with an alan key in it. Can I put it on?

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[pauleyman]

I just flipped it around and that’s what fit

Is the oil pump off or will this be fixed when belt is tightened? I have the old hydraulic tensioner sitting here locked with an alan key in it. Can I put it on?

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Are you reusing that tensioner? Then yes put it on.

No your marks on the lower sprockets are not lined up. You have a ton of slack. Start at exhaust cam and run it over intake. It should be flat between the two cam gears. Running down to the oil pump. It's hard to see what I'm talking about but if you retard that oil pump gear half or even a full tooth when you route belt across it then over the crank you'll see what I'm talking about. When slack is removed and belt is taught on the non tension side you'll notice marks lined up. Frequently I retard crank a little too. It's gonna take you a few tries. If you don't have all the parts on you're wasting your time. If you're waiting on parts just wait until then. You have to have everything on to do this. Belt will just slip past teeth otherwise. Cam tool looks right now but I have a big problem if that company uses it's logo to determine "up". It's marked wrong if that's the case.

Also shows us good pics of the cam gears. I want to verify dots up. Exhaust is right. I've yet to see a clear pic of intake.

 

[RubyEclipse]

Are you reusing that tensioner? Then yes put it on.

No your marks on the lower sprockets are not lined up. You have a ton of slack. Start at exhaust cam and run it over intake. It should be flat between the two cam gears. Running down to the oil pump. It's hard to see what I'm talking about but if you retard that oil pump gear half or even a full tooth when you route belt across it then over the crank you'll see what I'm talking about. When slack is removed and belt is taught on the non tension side you'll notice marks lined up. Frequently I retard crank a little too. It's gonna take you a few tries. If you don't have all the parts on you're wasting your time. If you're waiting on parts just wait until then. You have to have everything on to do this. Belt will just slip past teeth otherwise. Cam tool looks right now but I have a big problem if that company uses it's logo to determine "up". It's marked wrong if that's the case.

Also shows us good pics of the cam gears. I want to verify dots up. Exhaust is right. I've yet to see a clear pic of intake.

My new tensioner will be in tomorrow, I will have it when I come home. Would I put it on right away? I was told earlier that it is the last thing I put on, so I didn’t do it just yet. When you say lower sprockets you mean the oil pump right? The other balance shaft is good right? As soon as I put on tension the marks lined up perfectly. There is very little slack in the belt and I’ve yet to put on the hydraulic tensioner. Let me know all that I need to do before I put on the tensioner please! Thank you guys so much!

 

[DSMPT]

I am just curious how the lock tool back side looks like. Can you upload a pic of the back side? You have a bunch of zip ties, so the cam position won't change even you remove the lock tool.

My new tensioner will be in tomorrow, I will have it when I come home. Would I put it on right away? I was told earlier that it is the last thing I put on, so I didn’t do it just yet. When you say lower sprockets you mean the oil pump right? The other balance shaft is good right? As soon as I put on tension the marks lined up perfectly. There is very little slack in the belt and I’ve yet to put on the hydraulic tensioner. Let me know all that I need to do before I put on the tensioner please! Thank you guys so much!

You won't need a tensioner to put the tension on the belt to eliminate the slack as long as if you have the tensioner pulley. You shouldn't rotate the crank without the tensioner though.
Just set the tensioner pulley dots position as close as the right position, and then tighten the bolt. Then push up the tensioner arm from the bottom by hand, or use a 14mm wrench on the pulley bolt to move the arm/pulley a little bit clockwise. This will push the belt and you will see/feel the crank move towards advance if you have a slack.

 

[pauleyman]

I just flipped it around and that’s what fit

And this is why i asked for pics. I want to know if that company has an orientation mark or if their logo was the mark. The tool appears to be wrong but you didnt show us.

Is the oil pump off or will this be fixed when belt is tightened? I have the old hydraulic tensioner sitting here locked with an alan key in it. Can I put it on?

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My new tensioner will be in tomorrow, I will have it when I come home. Would I put it on right away? I was told earlier that it is the last thing I put on, so I didn’t do it just yet. When you say lower sprockets you mean the oil pump right? The other balance shaft is good right? As soon as I put on tension the marks lined up perfectly. There is very little slack in the belt and I’ve yet to put on the hydraulic tensioner. Let me know all that I need to do before I put on the tensioner please! Thank you guys so much!

You can see the slack in the pics. There should be none.
All parts need to be on the car before you do any line up. Not sure how I can state that any more clearly.

 

[RubyEclipse]

This is right side up with logo on top. Logo is on the top of my fingers to be exact.

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And this is why i asked for pics. I want to know if that company has an orientation mark or if their logo was the mark. The tool appears to be wrong but you didnt show us.




You can see the slack in the pics. There should be none.
All parts need to be on the car before you do any line up. Not sure how I can state that any more clearly.

Ok, my new tensioner comes in tomorrow, should I put it on and leave the pin in or wait? If there is slack in still I will take that out when you tell me too.

 

[DSMPT]

This is right side up with logo on top. Logo is on the top of my fingers to be exact.

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I see. As I already mentioned that you were putting the tool backwards/upside down. Somehow the logo on your tool is in opposite side, different from the one in the pic Justin linked.

 

[RubyEclipse]

Is this bad? Are my cams misaligned?

 

[DSMPT]

Is this bad? Are my cams misaligned?

No, that's not a big deal to use it even if the logo is in wrong side, it's just a logo, as long as if the teeth position is correct and if you know what it has to be done. But yes the timing may be wrong if you put it upside down by mistake like the first attempt, because in this case the crank and oil pump sprocket timing marks don't get lined up with the arrow mark on the front case.

 

[pauleyman]

This is right side up with logo on top. Logo is on the top of my fingers to be exact.

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Ok, my new tensioner comes in tomorrow, should I put it on and leave the pin in or wait? If there is slack in still I will take that out when you tell me too.

That is so messed up. That tool is marked wrong. It will still work but I can see why you did what you did.

When you install the hydraulic tensioner yes leave the pin in. Did you also get the threaded rod tool? Not a necessity but it helps some.
Have you browsed the vfaq tutorials or others? A visual of what we've been talking about is helpful. Even if younget the marks wrong it just means you'll need to shuffle a little until it's right. As long as you don't start the car with bad timing there should be no problem. Even out of time if it's just a tooth the only outcome is you have to remove belt and redo it. It's only if you are off many teeth or you get the tension wrong and it slips, that's when it's serious. It's also why we get very real serious when we talk about tension because it's so easy to check.
Hopefully we're not giving you information overload. I wrote these awhile back to help.

How To: Timing belts and TDC (long writeup)

I've read so many posts on timing belts etc. I don't understand the mistakes. I thought I would share some of my thoughts.What is mechanical timing? The valves must open and close at a certain position RELATIVE to the position of the crank. The cams are machined to accomplish exactly that IF...

www.dsmtuners.com

Are you afraid to change a timing belt? You shouldn't be after you read this.

If you are 100% confident in your ability to change a belt stop here and read no further. This has to be my single biggest pet peeve in the DSM community. We see a tbelt job messed up almost daily on these forums. This has got to stop. This post may sound like a gripe out but if you lack...

www.dsmtuners.com

 

[RubyEclipse]

Alright guys, I am so sure I got it this time. I really hope I did.

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If everything looks good with you guys, what’s the next step? Releasing the tensioner pin and making sure they all line up each rotation?

 

[pauleyman]

Alright guys, I am so sure I got it this time. I really hope I did.

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I can't tell. Take some static pics please. And no do not pull the pin. There is a procedure that requires you turn the eccentric pulley. Take pics of all 5 marks.

 

[RubyEclipse]

Ok, you got it.

 

[pauleyman]

Ok, you got it.

Do you have the tool to turn the eccentric pulley?

 

[RubyEclipse]

Do you have the tool to turn the eccentric pulley?

No I do not. The eccentric pulley is the little one in the middle right? The one the hydraulic tensioner moves?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

It can be tensioned but having one of special tools sure helps.

 

[RubyEclipse]

Here’s all the line ups.

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It can be tensioned but having one of special tools sure helps.

Ok, I’m supposed to move that over to around 5 o’clock right? I did that already but then when I had to put the belt back on because I had marks off, it was impossible to put on that belt without moving that tensioner first.

 

[pauleyman]

Ok, I’m supposed to move that over to around 5 o’clock right? I did that already but then when I had to put the belt back on because I had marks off, it was impossible to put on that belt without moving that tensioner first.

You're close. The tensioner pulley should be loose when you're putting the belt on. The bolt should not be tightened. It's the very last step. Only thing i want to check is cams. Show us a clear picture of the gears. I want to make sure both locating dowels are up. Once we verify that you can proceed to tension. Have you referenced a tutorial like vfaq.com or the factory manual? It will show you what to do. You will need something that allows you to turn and hold that pulley in place while you tighten it. Are you using the threaded rod tool also? Also not required but makes it easier.

 

[RubyEclipse]

You're close. The tensioner pulley should be loose when you're putting the belt on. The bolt should not be tightened. It's the very last step. Only thing i want to check is cams. Show us a clear picture of the gears. I want to make sure both locating dowels are up. Once we verify that you can proceed to tension. Have you referenced a tutorial like vfaq.com or the factory manual? It will show you what to do. You will need something that allows you to turn and hold that pulley in place while you tighten it. Are you using the threaded rod tool also? Also not required but makes it easier.

I am not using that tool, I don’t actually know what it is or what it looks like.

The bolt on the tensioner pulley is loose, it is not tightened. I will send more photos of the cams when I get home, any angles you want most?