Resolved 2G Engine Rebuild

[RubyEclipse]

Hello everyone! I just purchased my 1996 Eclipse GST a few months ago, had some issues with a few different things. Most recent was car was smoking and running very uneasy, so I decided to pull the engine. I am going to do a full engine rebuild-ish, I bought new wisco heads, still looking at the rods I want, if there’s anything anyone thinks I should buy and upgrade I would love help! Trying to push more power but not an insane amount seeing how I want this to be more of a daily but not quite. Thank you guys!

 

[Justin DuBois]

I used a softer bit with a dremel. If bits did get down there, how should I get them out so they don’t circulate through the oil? I didn’t see anything really fly so if they did it was microscopic.

I made sure to go very slowly, and lightly. This took me a very long time to do.

I change my oil after reassembly of the head, but before finishing the timing belt. This allows you to drain the oil and any contaminants you put in it, as well as allowing you to spin the pump with fresh oil to check for prime, and look for leaks.

 

[RubyEclipse]

I change my oil after reassembly of the head, but before finishing the timing belt. This allows you to drain the oil and any contaminants you put in it, as well as allowing you to spin the pump with fresh oil to check for prime, and look for leaks.

Perfect, I will do that. The oil has already been drained, should I put more in it?

 

[Justin DuBois]

Perfect, I will do that. The oil has already been drained, should I put more in it?

If you have extra clean oil to sacrifice to the cleaning gods - you could run a rod with some lint free cloth through a slot on the end (like from a gun cleaning kit) down the holes in the block. See if you pickup any of the Head Gasket debris. Maybe squirt a bit of oil down to the pan, and drain it. Just don’t oil up the water cooling holes.

 

[RubyEclipse]

If you have extra clean oil to sacrifice to the cleaning gods - you could run a rod with some lint free cloth through a slot on the end (like from a gun cleaning kit) down the holes in the block. See if you pickup any of the Head Gasket debris. Maybe squirt a bit of oil down to the pan, and drain it. Just don’t oil up the water cooling holes.

I don’t know which holes are oil and which are water so idk about it that , might have to wait and put the head on, run oil through, then put new and clean oil in. Also got the head bolts in, how we lookin? Ready for the gasket and head?

I think she’s lookin spiffy if I don’t say so myself

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[CKOPOCT]

I think she’s lookin spiffy if I don’t say so myself

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Looking good. I assume you took this picture before installing the last stud?

 

[RubyEclipse]

Looking good. I assume you took this picture before installing the last stud?

Yes, I already put that one in. Sorry!

 

[CKOPOCT]

When it's time to put the head on, be EXTREMELY careful to line up the holes for the studs. Go slow. You don't want to scratch or gouge the head surface against the studs.

 

[curt-s]

If anything fell down there and you have oil still in the pan, draining it can get rid of a lot but nothing that stuck to the inner walls of the block. The oil filter will do its job and catch them, but it's more of the oil pump gears that it all has to go through first. Some of that could be caught between the gear face and the front case or rear pump cover as it spins, since it delivers it's own oil flow and pressure right after exiting the gears.

Cleaning the head gasket off the deck is more surgical than brute force, take your time and don't try to rush the job even if it takes a couple hours.

Time will tell at this point. It all depends on what went down there which is an unknown.

But as Justin says, a cheap quart of oil down the returns (not the water jackets ) can bring garbage to the bottom and you just let it drain right out. $7 for piece of mind is an easy price to pay


Before you drop the head on, look where your valve spring seats are. You might have to put some of the washers in first. That will make putting the head on a tad more difficult so be prepared to suspend that thing for a little while as you line everything up carefully so that you don't marr the head deck.

If you grease the washer with ARP lube and line them up in the head before it goes down they won't walk on you as you move the head about in the air. Don't force anything, it should basically glide down if you lined it all up right. Maybe a bit of rocking but barely anything at all

 

[RubyEclipse]

If anything fell down there and you have oil still in the pan, draining it can get rid of a lot but nothing that stuck to the inner walls of the block. The oil filter will do its job and catch them, but it's more of the oil pump gears that it all has to go through first. Some of that could be caught between the gear face and the front case or rear pump cover as it spins, since it delivers it's own oil flow and pressure right after exiting the gears.

Cleaning the head gasket off the deck is more surgical than brute force, take your time and don't try to rush the job even if it takes a couple hours.

Time will tell at this point. It all depends on what went down there which is an unknown.

But as Justin says, a cheap quart of oil down the returns (not the water jackets ) can bring garbage to the bottom and you just let it drain right out. $7 for piece of mind is an easy price to pay


Before you drop the head on, look where your valve spring seats are. You might have to put some of the washers in first. That will make putting the head on a tad more difficult so be prepared to suspend that thing for a little while as you line everything up carefully so that you don't marr the head deck.

If you grease the washer with ARP lube and line them up in the head before it goes down they won't walk on you as you move the head about in the air. Don't force anything, it should basically glide down if you lined it all up right. Maybe a bit of rocking but barely anything at all

Ok I did what you said, I got the head bolts on. I have not tighten them down all the way, I don’t know the order nor the torque.

Am I going to be able to put the motor mounts back on after the head? Or do I need to take the head off and put the motor mounts on?

 

[curt-s]

You have studs by that photo, not bolts
Three steps following proper torquing sequence out of the manual. Nowadays regular ARPs are 90ft/lb so do three passes: 30, 60, 90. The nuts and washers must have ARP lube wherever there is interfacing with other metal. That means threads and flat surfaces

The driver side mount goes on after the head and it can be a bit tricky due to the engine sagging on that side but you can gently lift it with a block of wood under the pan and a jack. Little bit at a time, making sure you're not crushing the pan.
You have a bunch of work still before you get to that stage

If you don't know the torque sequence or values, I suggest you stop at this point and read some stickied rebuild threads. Then come back to it when you're confident you know what's next. Now is not the time to rush and get things wrong, then have to undo and start over.

There's stuff with lifters, cam cap sequences, cam orientation during installation, and so on, all details you should be aware of first.

 

[pauleyman]

Now is when you need to consult us at each step. It's been years so i can't remember if you can install the head with studs and cams in. Either way I use one of 2 methods.
1. Remove the cams, install the head.
2. Leave cams in, install the head ( ONE BIG CHANGE) and important for both methods.

I do NOT leave any of the pistons at the top no matter which method you use. Method 1 it's not possible for a valve to be open so it's not super important. If you have cams in it is VERY important to know where stuff is in relation to each other. Method 2 if you don't put the pistons down bore you risk bending a valve just bolting the head down. This is a list of stuff you need to be aware of and some methods that I use.

I would do some of this stuff before the head is on. Some of it you can't do with head studs if I recall. So be aware.
1. head studs obviously require the head to go straight down. If I recall it doesn't clear the motor mount so you have to loosen/remove it then reinstall the mount after the head is on.
2. You need to compress the auto tensioner and put a pin in it. Drill bit or allen wrench works if you are reusing.
3. Watch what you are doing as you bolt parts on to the timing belt size. I've seen people break the auto tensioner when installing the tensioner bracket because they didn't realize stuff was in a bind when tightening bolts.
3. Install what you can on the timing belt side before you drop the head on. There is more room before you drop the head.
4. Make sure all the lifters are bled down. Better if you cleaned them internally then bled them. If you don't know what I am talking about ask.
5. Head gasket has an orientation. Pay attention. It should be obvious how it goes on.


That should be enough to get the head placed. Then we can talk about lifters, torque sequence etc.

Tell us which method you would like to use and let's move forward.

 

[RubyEclipse]

Now is when you need to consult us at each step. It's been years so i can't remember if you can install the head with studs and cams in. Either way I use one of 2 methods.
1. Remove the cams, install the head.
2. Leave cams in, install the head ( ONE BIG CHANGE) and important for both methods.

I do NOT leave any of the pistons at the top no matter which method you use. Method 1 it's not possible for a valve to be open so it's not super important. If you have cams in it is VERY important to know where stuff is in relation to each other. Method 2 if you don't put the pistons down bore you risk bending a valve just bolting the head down. This is a list of stuff you need to be aware of and some methods that I use.

I would do some of this stuff before the head is on. Some of it you can't do with head studs if I recall. So be aware.
1. head studs obviously require the head to go straight down. If I recall it doesn't clear the motor mount so you have to loosen/remove it then reinstall the mount after the head is on.
2. You need to compress the auto tensioner and put a pin in it. Drill bit or allen wrench works if you are reusing.
3. Watch what you are doing as you bolt parts on to the timing belt size. I've seen people break the auto tensioner when installing the tensioner bracket because they didn't realize stuff was in a bind when tightening bolts.
3. Install what you can on the timing belt side before you drop the head on. There is more room before you drop the head.
4. Make sure all the lifters are bled down. Better if you cleaned them internally then bled them. If you don't know what I am talking about ask.
5. Head gasket has an orientation. Pay attention. It should be obvious how it goes on.


That should be enough to get the head placed. Then we can talk about lifters, torque sequence etc.

Tell us which method you would like to use and let's move forward.

I am going with method 2, I think some of the lifters are bled because I am able to push them down. On the exhaust side, on the intake side I cannot. I did all that I could with the timing side and now I’m going to time the head. I think I have 1 tensioner I still have to put on. The auto tensioner, I don’t know what that looks like or where it is. I’ll google some videos and watch how they do it to catch myself up.

 

[pauleyman]

I am going with method 2, I think some of the lifters are bled because I am able to push them down. On the exhaust side, on the intake side I cannot. I did all that I could with the timing side and now I’m going to time the head. I think I have 1 tensioner I still have to put on. The auto tensioner, I don’t know what that looks like or where it is. I’ll google some videos and watch how they do it to catch myself up.

Lifters must be bled down. If they're not you need to remove them. Keep stuff in order. When ready you'll want to put each rocker and lifter back where it went.

 

[Justin DuBois]

I don't install head studs first - but maybe with a 2G head and cams populated this is necessary? I've only ever installed the head without cams. The head is heavy and hard to control when lifting and setting it down. An un-populated head is significantly lighter. I do line of site (with a head lamp) on the corners with the dowels, and set the head onto the gasket and block. Without studs, you can "try" and wiggle the head after you set it in place to see if you goofed and pinched something between one of the layers - the head should not rock back and forth on anything. It should feel really solid.

I then populate the studs, thread them all the way in - hand snug - don't crank the studs in. The nut will do all the work to make it tight.

Then populate the washers and nuts. On a 1G head with 12mm studs, the clearance with the springs is really tight. I usually need to leave 4 of the studs loose so I can deflect the stud while working the washer and nut past the spring. Maybe a 2G head with 11mm studs is easier.

 

[RubyEclipse]

Lifters must be bled down. If they're not you need to remove them. Keep stuff in order. When ready you'll want to out each rocker and lifter back where it went.

Ok, I will bleed them. Do I need to bleed the ones that are already able to be pushed down easy?

I don't install head studs first - but maybe with a 2G head and cams populated this is necessary? I've only ever installed the head without cams. The head is heavy and hard to control when lifting and setting it down. An un-populated head is significantly lighter. I do line of site (with a head lamp) on the corners with the dowels, and set the head onto the gasket and block. Without studs, you can "try" and wiggle the head after you set it in place to see if you goofed and pinched something between one of the layers - the head should not rock back and forth on anything. It should feel really solid.

I then populate the studs, thread them all the way in - hand snug - don't crank the studs in. The nut will do all the work to make it tight.
then populate the washers and nuts. On a 1G head with 12mm studs, the clearance with the springs is really tight. I usually need to leave 4 of the studs loose so I can deflect the stud while working the washer and nut past the spring. Maybe a 2G head with 11mm studs is easier.

I was able to easily lift it and set it down without it getting stuck, hitting other things, or resting on parts it shouldn’t.

I have all headbolts tighten down to 60 ft pounds. Do I need to do 90? Want to make sure I don’t over do it.

 

[Justin DuBois]

I have all headbolts tighten down to 60 ft pounds. Do I need to do 90? Want to make sure I don’t over do it.

Make sure you follow the specified sequence to tighten the studs. Start with 30, then 60, then 90 ft lbs. Are you looking at the service manual?

 

[RubyEclipse]

Make sure you follow the specified sequence to tighten the studs. Start with 30, then 60, then 90 ft lbs. Are you looking at the service manual?

Yep, read the arp stuff in other forums and that’s what they told me. I’m taking out the cams to bleed the lifters, I was told I need to put them in either transmission fluid or oil? Do I just take out everything and leave them there? And how long do I leave them there?

 

[pauleyman]

Ok, I will bleed them. Do I need to bleed the ones that are already able to be pushed down easy?

No..if you have some that collapse easy those are fine.

 

[Justin DuBois]

Yep, read the arp stuff in other forums and that’s what they told me. I’m taking out the cams to bleed the lifters, I was told I need to put them in either transmission fluid or oil? Do I just take out everything and leave them there? And how long do I leave them there?

It's probably witchdoctor thinking, but I prefer to torque the head down without cam's in to avoid cams from influencing the shape of the head on final assembly - so if you are taking the cams out - go the last step from 60-90 without the cam's in.

I use clean oil to avoid contaminating the oil in the motor. ATF might help if you have gunk to clean out - but make sure you manipulate the lifter submerged in motor oil to get the ATF out before installation. I use a small allen with a ball end insert into the tip to compress the ball and spring valve in the lifter. When you get the alignment of the allen correct, a little pressure will open the ball valve and allow the lifter to compress with your fingers.

 

[RubyEclipse]

ok so it turns out, I checked all of the lifters and they all have been bled, most likely by the machine shop. I guess I wasn’t able to push them under the cams, they all are super easy to push down so we’re good. I got cam seals already on so I’m going to tighten these boys back up. Is there anything else I need to do to the head? How do I time this cam towards the driver, it has one line on one side, and a dot on the other. The one on the right.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

All cam caps are torqued to 14 ft pounds.

 

[Justin DuBois]

ok so it turns out, I checked all of the lifters and they all have been bled, most likely by the machine shop. I guess I wasn’t able to push them under the cams, they all are super easy to push down so we’re good. I got cam seals already on so I’m going to tighten these boys back up. Is there anything else I need to do to the head? How do I time this cam towards the driver, it has one line on one side, and a dot on the other. The one on the right.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Be sure your pistons are all down away from the valves. Use long screwdrivers with tape coverd tips or welding rod or something visually easy to see standing in the spark plug holes to help you know where the tops of the pistons are.

Timing marks - There is a tool - it holds the cam gears in position at TDC, but it's not required. You need wrenches to hold the cam's in position against the valve springs while aligning the marks. (<- look this up) When it is time to install the timing belt, you can use zip ties or binder clips to hold the belt on the gears, and the teeth of the belt in the gears will hold the cams in time relative to each other.

 

[curt-s]

ok so it turns out, I checked all of the lifters and they all have been bled, most likely by the machine shop. I guess I wasn’t able to push them under the cams, they all are super easy to push down so we’re good. I got cam seals already on so I’m going to tighten these boys back up. Is there anything else I need to do to the head? How do I time this cam towards the driver, it has one line on one side, and a dot on the other. The one on the right.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

A couple of 17mm wrenches on the cam bolts, or ratchets -- one in loosen (on the intake side) and one in tighten (on the exhaust) -- whichever you have lying around

What I've always done is allow the intake cam to be slightly clockwise past horizon and rotate the exhaust by a tooth clockwise before I slip on the belt. It looks weird in the beginning but after setting the tensioner, it brings the exhaust side back in line before it starts moving the intake due to belt stretch.
But that's just me. It's probably against the rules but the only thing I've ever fought with after that is getting that exact tension due to not having a mini beam style torque wrench to set the pulley with. As a complete newcomer to this, perhaps don't use that method.

If you have the cam lock tool, you don't need to bother with this method anyway. I picked one up from aliexpress for $5. Worked fine, didn't really save me any time.

 

[pauleyman]

Where is the crank mark currently? This is the point you need to know what you're doing, install a belt etc. Please ask questions before proceeding.
I want to revisit older topics you didn't answer and point out some things I've seen but you've been jumping ahead.
1. Did you replace the lower seals? If you want to do so now is the time.
2. i noticed the balance shaft belt does not look tensioned. You'll notice that pulley and the main belt tensioner pulley are eccentric. For the balance shaft put it tighter with your thumb and tighten the bolt down.
We will get to how to install the belt. how to tension etc.

You mentioned you don't know what the hydraulic tensioner is. It's the long cylindrical thing.

 

[RubyEclipse]

Where is the crank mark currently? This is the point you need to know what you're doing, install a belt etc. Please ask questions before proceeding.
I want to revisit older topics you didn't answer and point out some things I've seen but you've been jumping ahead.
1. Did you replace the lower seals? If you want to do so now is the time.
2. i noticed the balance shaft belt does not look tensioned. You'll notice that pulley and the main belt tensioner pulley are eccentric. For the balance shaft put it tighter with your thumb and tighten the bolt down.
We will get to how to install the belt. how to tension etc.

You mentioned you don't know what the hydraulic tensioner is. It's the long cylindrical thing.

Which lower seals exactly are you talking about? I think I tightened the balance shaft, not the one connected to the oil pump that is. The on the left side. Yes, I googled and found the hydraulic tensioner, thank you.

 

[pauleyman]

Which lower seals exactly are you talking about? I think I tightened the balance shaft, not the one connected to the oil pump that is. The on the left side. Yes, I googled and found the hydraulic tensioner, thank you.

The seals behind the lower sprockets.