272 cams

[98gsxtuner]

Just wanted to get some thoughts on 272 cams either hks or brian cower how much low end tourqe do you loose and hi rpm horse power does it crawl off the line and does it make a significant difference in the hp increase i could i really use some help im getting my car ready this summer and am looking to get this dun soon, so any help would be very much appreciated.

 

[98gsxtuner]

ya kyle97turbo i go to norfolk alot ya we should meet up sumtime, and so is everyone else telling me not to get the cams and get a bigger turbo and a dsm link i think was said but if i have a 16g alread the big one how much bigger do i want to go i have all stock internals and if i go this route other than the cams what kind of power am i looking at

 

[dsm-onster]

And see I can't understand why someone would spend $500-$600 on cams when they have a 16g and AFC. I would rather spend that money on link or EMS alot more power will be made with either one. Also more fun then just slapping in cams and being done with it.

How much more power with a 16g can you make upgrading to link or EMS(from an safc) vs. upgrading the cams?

 

[jjgrizz73]

^^^yes, thats a silly comment, even another reason besides the power gains (which is possible if the tune is much much better with the link/ems that the safc, but doubtful) is that EMS cost what? 1100-1200 new? Many people dont even need the EMS...

I also agree, BC = cheap cam and cheap performance. Take a look at others, hell even comps.

 

[BGGSTin]

yes, BC cams are cheap, but are also some of the worst performing cams on the market. Yes, they do show gains, but compared to other cams such as FP grinds, HKS, Kelfords, they are terrible. (hence why they are $300)
They are popular, becuase they are cheap!

If your heart is stuck on the HKS cams, check out the Kelfords, they have an even better (in my opinion) curve than he HKS grinds. They have a very nice, smooth power band gain across the board, and can be had for about $560, which is still less then HKS.

Which is why we made over 900whp on a set of BC's.
Unless you're that set on wanting that extra (HKS, Kelford,etc) epeen to impress the aforementioned in your profile then buy BC's. They make power, I know, I didn't read about them.

 

[95GSXCO]

The whole point is why would you worry about spending $600.00 on cams when you only have a 200.00 AFC to tune with that can't even control timming? Again its his car and he will do what he wants with it I was just giving my thoughts on it. As far as HP numbers that I don't know but iam pretty sure he would get more hp out either one over 600 cams.

 

[dsm-onster]

Hmmm. When you lean out the safc it advances the timing. Doesn't the typical tuner want more timing and leaner A/F ratio?

And from actual experience, I ran just a maf translator (less tuning resolution than an safc) and 650s for years with my $450 fp2 cams (272s). Then I zeroed out the translator and upgraded to dsmlink. The difference in the gain from tuning with dsmlink and tunign with the maft was negledgable. The extra fine tuning dsmlink provided was awesome but not the noticable difference that any basic fuel tuner can provide. I didn't buy dsmlink for the fine tuning. I had to have it to run larger injectors that I new I would need down the road. But when I was runnign the 650s and stock cams with the small 16g, I saw A HUGE gain going to the fp2s. Much more than any tuning I could have ever done. 272s gave the most power gain from stock to what the 650s can do. More fuel control will allow you to run more injector than 650cc.

The cams were the second greatest power provider for me. The first being the turbo. The 3rd being the 3" exhaust with open muffler.

You don't need ignition timing control to get leaps and bounds better results with cams over a tunign solution with finer control than a basic fuel controller.

 

[Diplomat]

Just wanted to get some thoughts on 272 cams either hks or brian cower how much low end tourqe do you loose and hi rpm horse power does it crawl off the line and does it make a significant difference in the hp increase i could i really use some help im getting my car ready this summer and am looking to get this dun soon, so any help would be very much appreciated.

Here's a link to an extensive camshaft test that AMS has created for the world to see.

hey i just wanted to tell all you guys thanks for the advice it would be kewl if we could all meet up sumday and run at a track.

That's what the DSM Shootout is for.

Here are a couple videos from YouTube. I know, streaming media sucks, but what can you do?



2008 Shootout coverage.

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A video of the other sights to behold at the Shootout by Dynoflash.

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[98gsxtuner]

idk what to do its up in the air right now i was just trying to find out some more info on them i dont know to much about the link i was just looking for like a 20 hp gain and sumone said the cams would do that for me but even if i did get the cams wouldnt i be able to get the link in the future. and can sumone give me sum insight on how much boost would be safe to produce if i get arp headstuds and cometik headgasket with stock internals. i dont have the arp headstuds or headgasket right now and im runnin 20psi

 

[UGOT8UP]

IMO stay no more than 20psi, more than that would be like playing Russian rolute...

 

[98gsxtuner]

ok sumone told me once i got the headstuds and headgasket i could run like 25 psi because the stock crank holds 800hp but i wanted to check before i did it and fried the heart of my baby. i dont know what i would do wit out my car.

 

[Polyol]

I run 20 psi DD with 135,000 mi. Stock motor other then BC 272 cams & springs & retainers. Original head gasket & head bolts. Alltough It is very well maintained.

 

[Boo5t_Addict]

850's are too big of an injector to be reliably controlled by an s-afc. Getting dmslink would be in my opinion the best upgrade, because it's one that you won't have to change from for a long time. Dsmlink is the best bang for your buck upgrade for a dsm out there. Tuning that big an injector with s-afc isn't exactly optimal. Do you want cams, or a bigger turbo, and then backtracking for a way to controll the fuel and timing later, or do you want to be able to do so now? I'd vote dsmlink first, other upgrades later.

 

[jjgrizz73]

IMO stay no more than 20psi, more than that would be like playing Russian rolute...

Thats terrible information...with headstuds and head gasket on a stock block (depending on turbo size of course) you can run 25+psi. On my evoIII I had it running at 24psi on a DD with studs and cometic with great a/f ratios. Now im putting on a 50 trim with meth injection on the same setup.

 

[thewombis]

Which is why we made over 900whp on a set of BC's.
Unless you're that set on wanting that extra (HKS, Kelford,etc) epeen to impress the aforementioned in your profile then buy BC's. They make power, I know, I didn't read about them.

I did not say you couldn't make 900hp on a set of BC cams. I simply said, in the case of cams, you truly DO get that you pay for in most cases. There is a reason one cam cost more than the other. It is true that a BC cam will give you lets say 30hp gain over stock. While a Kelford (just an example) will give you 50hp with the same "272 grind". I don't determine which product to purchase by its name, OR by its price. I purchase the product which proves to have the best gains which I am after. It just so happened the BC cams were dead last place, and by coincidence they were the cheapest.

With that said, you run BC cams in your 900hp car...and I will run Kelfords in my 905hp car.

 

[95GSXCO]

Hmmm. When you lean out the safc it advances the timing. Doesn't the typical tuner want more timing and leaner A/F ratio?

And from actual experience, I ran just a maf translator (less tuning resolution than an safc) and 650s for years with my $450 fp2 cams (272s). Then I zeroed out the translator and upgraded to dsmlink. The difference in the gain from tuning with dsmlink and tunign with the maft was negledgable. The extra fine tuning dsmlink provided was awesome but not the noticable difference that any basic fuel tuner can provide. I didn't buy dsmlink for the fine tuning. I had to have it to run larger injectors that I new I would need down the road. But when I was runnign the 650s and stock cams with the small 16g, I saw A HUGE gain going to the fp2s. Much more than any tuning I could have ever done. 272s gave the most power gain from stock to what the 650s can do. More fuel control will allow you to run more injector than 650cc.

The cams were the second greatest power provider for me. The first being the turbo. The 3rd being the 3" exhaust with open muffler.

You don't need ignition timing control to get leaps and bounds better results with cams over a tunign solution with finer control than a basic fuel controller.

Now see maybe its just me but why spend so much more money on somthing so simple on the motor and then have somthing so cheap be the life line? Sorry its just me I can't understand why somone would spend $600.00 for cams and only $200.00 for engine management? Thats a honda thing ($1200.00 JDM front end and ebay turbo and everything else.) Now Iam not saying dont buy cams I was just giving my .2cents. I would rather mess up a stock motor from learning how to tune the mess up a $10,000.00 motor trying to learn how to tune. All because I wanted the quickest bang for my buck. Again the OP will do as he wants reguradless of what we think. And yes this is coming from actual exp. also I thought I could put of my fuel system. I have 1600cc with stock everthing else and now look because of dsm-onster (Holset threads) I went out and got me a HX40 well now $1300.00 later my fuel system is ready for this turbo.

 

[UGOT8UP]

Thats terrible information...with headstuds and head gasket on a stock block (depending on turbo size of course) you can run 25+psi. On my evoIII I had it running at 24psi on a DD with studs and cometic with great a/f ratios. Now im putting on a 50 trim with meth injection on the same setup.

Terrible information huh???? you run 25+ psi on stock head gasket and bolt's and see what happens LMFAO......You might want to read what he said before posting [stock head bolt's and stock head gasket] not ARP's and MLS

 

[jjgrizz73]

idk what to do its up in the air right now i was just trying to find out some more info on them i dont know to much about the link i was just looking for like a 20 hp gain and sumone said the cams would do that for me but even if i did get the cams wouldnt i be able to get the link in the future. and can sumone give me sum insight on how much boost would be safe to produce if i get arp headstuds and cometik headgasket with stock internals. i dont have the arp headstuds or headgasket right now and im runnin 20psi

Read it carefully my friend...

 

[UGOT8UP]

Read it carefully my friend...

AHH HUHH....I was reading wrong....I can't tell you what to run that is up to your tuning abilities, I run maxed out on my 16G 27ish psi, I'm going to get my HX35 tuned around 30ish, stock block. mild head job with ARP's and MLS, just use that data logger or link wisely my friend.

 

[jjgrizz73]

Should be a nice setup, make sure you get a good tune with that 30psi on the stock bottom on that hx35 otherwise things go boom

 

[UGOT8UP]

BIG boom....My transfer case went BOOM this morning so now I have to drive a 400hp FWD car, talk about suck, I fell for all of you big HP FWD guy's out there.

 

[jjgrizz73]

...i know EXACTLY what thats like. With the 50 trim and meth this spring I should be near 450+whp with my car with the bolt on I have. FWD does not like it, Im doing the awd swap though soon

 

[UGOT8UP]

I got my race wheel's in this morning (Volk CE27N with drag radial's) I figured I'd try to see how it launched to say the least........IT HOOKED!!!!

 

[jjgrizz73]

hahah well atleast you know the drag radials work better =P.

but back to the OP, with studs and cometic you can def. run 25 and even more. Just watch and get yourself a good tune, stock rods dont like alot of pressure, but you should be fine. Like I said with my EIII I was running 24 on pump as a daily driver...very fun car btw

 

[dsm-onster]

The stock 6bolt head bolts and stock composite head gasket is mpst certainly a 50lb/min capable combination. Can do over 500whp daily driven. . . It's proven.

95GSXCO, you don't need more than an safc to see the 30+ whp gains of a pair of 272s. With horsepower that is well below the strength threshold of a stock 7bolt block. No one is talking about $10,000 motors here. We're talking about $200 motors and what mods will yield the best bang for the buck. There's no need for AEM EMS for a stock 7bolt with a 16g. You won't gain a thing over other MUCH more affordable alternatives.

If you have an hx40, then you're on the right path with fuel control . A standalone or dsmlink would be supremely more adventageous than even a full control piggyback. But a 16g powered stock 7bolt will definately benefit several times over from a cam upgrade to 272s vs. a going from an safc to standalone or even eprom editing. You need no more than a maf that can meter as much as a 16g can flow and a system that can tune 650cc injectors to completely wring out a 16g. However, your stock cams will be a restiction for even a 6cm^2 14b.

 

[95GSXCO]

I got my race wheel's in this morning (Volk CE27N with drag radial's) I figured I'd try to see how it launched to say the least........IT HOOKED!!!!

Get a vid up


dsm-onster I agree with you on that. Its just the way I do things I guess and maybe thats why my car sat for 3 years with no engine I just stocked up on all the parts to make a strong foundation and am just now going with a bigger turbo almost a year later. But maybe he does not plan on keeping his car for as long as some of us have. To each to their own I guess. Dsm-onster I have alot of respect for you for all the information you have shared with all of us on the holsets if it weren't for you I would have wasted alot of money on a 35r and I thank you for that and so does the wife.

To the OP which ever way you go you will be happy I know all the honda guys drool over my car just because of the 272's with the exhaust note.