Street Build 1g build - The Real Life Trials and Tribulations of building a DSM

[Anfurnyy]

I’m a fan of the s3’s, they damn sure paired well with a 6266

Hell yeah glad to hear.

 

[Anfurnyy]

Got them lumpy bois yesterday. Planning to start tearing down the stuff today to get cams swapped. Maybe this weekend I'll pull the pan and try to find all the little balls from the rockers.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

They aren't balls, they are rollers. Its funny there isn't a single one left up in the head. Count how many are in the pan and then how many are in a rocker. Account for them all. Best of luck!

 

[Anfurnyy]

They aren't balls, they are rollers. Its funny there isn't a single one left up in the head. Count how many are in the pan and then how many are in a rocker. Account for them all. Best of luck!

Are they really rollers? They look like 2 ball bearings but I did originally thing they were little needle bearings.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

They are needle bearings. When I jumped time, it wrecked a few and they are all needles. They are as wide as the rocker center.

 

[Anfurnyy]

Boys, boys, boys....
I am SO happy I decided to check all the rockers..
I found 2 more the outer bearing race were cracked on, about ready to go too. Swapped those out with spares.


I found a decent price on some evo rockers and snagged those up. Will be here next week and will probably swap to those.

Pulled the timing cover. I'm gonna tell you hwhat.. this need tensioner tool/rod/bolt is SUCH a time saver when just pulling the belt. Now I don't have to dick around with the tensioner pulley.. I just screw it in to let the tension off the belt, pull the belt and then let the rod back out with the belt on and it goes back to the tension it was on.


Anyways, new S3 cams in, timing belt back on. That's as far as I made it. Couldn't feel my toes after being in the garage for a couple hours. Single digits outside and after my garage heater was on for a couple hours it got up to about 45°?

 

[CrackedDSM]

Can't wait to hear this bad boy chop. That's crazy about the rockers though man. Making me want to go check all mine.

 

[Anfurnyy]

Can't wait to hear this bad boy chop. That's crazy about the rockers though man. Making me want to go check all mine.

The craziest part is I didn't even know man. It's crazy. Makes me feel like I took maintenance stuff for granted at this level. I'm definitely planning being a little more involved with maintenance.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

You're a TROOPER!!! I'm glad you spotted others too. Any sign of the missing roller bearings? They're not "really" gonna kill anything except blocking sump area so get them out if you can. I'd hate for a crank throw to catch one and exit it out the pan somewhere.

 

[Anfurnyy]

You're a TROOPER!!! I'm glad you spotted others too. Any sign of the missing roller bearings? They're not "really" gonna kill anything except blocking sump area so get them out if you can. I'd hate for a crank throw to catch one and exit it out the pan somewhere.

I looked in literally every crevice I could find in the head and found nothing. Can only assume that the oil in the head dampened the "explosion" and they all got dragged down into the pan by the oil.. that's the hope anyways.

Can't wait to hear this bad boy chop. That's crazy about the rockers though man. Making me want to go check all mine.

I thought my S2s were gonna chop but they really didn't honestly. Sounded fairly normal. Maybe slightly more than stock?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

My hopes also

I thought my S2s were gonna chop but they really didn't honestly. Sounded fairly normal. Maybe slightly more than stock?

You can tune the chop out or make it more pronounced. My Kelford 272s I could get to sound pretty "normal" but the 280R's are always talking.

 

[CrackedDSM]

I could do with less chop on these BC cams. There was a set of OG HKS 272s for sale on FB for $350 for exactly 20 minutes before they got bought. Damn it! Lol.

I am equally as curious though to hear the pros/possible cons of the S3's vs the S2s though.

 

[Anfurnyy]

You can tune the chop out or make it more pronounced. My Kelford 272s I could get to sound pretty "normal" but the 280R's are always talking.

I'd love some more chop but if they dont, they don't haha

I could do with less chop on these BC cams. There was a set of OG HKS 272s for sale on FB for $350 for exactly 20 minutes before they got bought. Damn it! Lol.

I am equally as curious though to hear the pros/possible cons of the S3's vs the S2s though.

When I was going some research on the S3s Mckenzie Lange had some post about tuning a car that came from S2s to S3s and said that he lost only about 100rpm of spool.

Each setup is different so idk what I'll see or if I'll see anything at all since the turbo spooled late anyways. I'm actually more worried about negligible difference because of overall head flow because of stock ports and no porting at all. I guess we'll see when the butt dyno hits

I'd also REALLY like to mess around with changing the degree of the cams for possibly slightly better spool but don't wanna mess with actually degreeing the cams to see if it's safe

 

[CrackedDSM]

I'd also REALLY like to mess around with changing the degree of the cams for possibly slightly better spool but don't wanna mess with actually degreeing the cams to see if it's safe

I 100% feel you on this one. Less so for spool though, more for more top end and to get some idle quality back.


Randomly, do you have a double synchro second gear in your transmission or is it the single synchro first and second?

I ask because I'm curious, if you have a single synchro 2nd I assume you have zero problems shifting fast above 7500RPM into 2nd.

 

[Anfurnyy]

I 100% feel you on this one. Less so for spool though, more for more top end and to get some idle quality back.


Randomly, do you have a double synchro second gear in your transmission or is it the single synchro first and second?

I ask because I'm curious, if you have a single synchro 2nd I assume you have zero problems shifting fast above 7500RPM into 2nd.

I've got a double synchro setup. Double synchro should be in every box 93+ IIRC.

 

[CrackedDSM]

I've got a double synchro setup. Double synchro should be in every box 93+ IIRC.

Nice. Makes sense though.

 

[Anfurnyy]

So we have good news and we have bad news.

Dropped the pan last night.
The good news: I found the needle bearings!
The bad news: I'm short 4... They are nowhere to be found.

You can see here ↑, I broke open one of the cracked bearings on one and there are 16 needle bearings (top), I only have 12 (bottom).

I inspected everything in the bottom end and found some suspected evidence on where they might have went: obliterated. There some dimples on rod and bottom of piston #3. Nothing significant or even enough to make me, personally concerned.


I found nothing else in the pan, no debris.. nothing. Went magnet fishing, nothing. Poured a whole quart of 5w-30 in there and sloshed it around hopefully to grab a stuck one and nothing. Came out clean.

I DID find one small flake of what looks like aluminum stuck to the picking screen.


So the missing needle bearings are either:
A) Still in the head.. somewhere.
B) Obliterated
C) Maybe they somehow drained out with the oil when I drained it and I missed it? I didn't watch it the whole time.

So now, lifter lubed up and bled. Rockers all accounted for, new lumpy boi cams in, timing belt on. Today hopefully I get the pan back on without much fuss and we hear this ol girl purr. I'm also really curious if this properly functioning rocker is going to make a performance difference or not.

 

[Anfurnyy]

I also just picked up some lightly used Kiggly High Pressure valve springs as well. I've been running the regular steel street springs but they are definitely not rated for the boost I've been running.

The high pressures have a bit more seat pressure so hopefully that should help with making sure we don't got no float and don't throw / break rockers again..

I'll probably do it all in one go, swap in the new springs and rockers ( Evo rockers) at the same time.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

What RPM's were you experiencing float? I run Kiggly BeeHives to 9k+.

 

[Anfurnyy]

What RPM's were you experiencing float? I run Kiggly BeeHives to 9k+.

I'm honestly not sure if I WAS but I run mine to like 9200. BUT you've also gotta think about boost pressure on the backside of the intake valve too.

These new springs are really a "just in case/ peace of mind" type of thing.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Yes. I am on modest boost right now, 32lbs.
When I turn the "dial" another turn, I run 40. The BeeHives do a dam good job of not floating. My Rev Limit is 9200 and I've hit it several times, no float. Good that you are doing "preventive" things so nothing bad happens!

 

[Anfurnyy]

Yes. I am on modest boost right now, 32lbs.
When I turn the "dial" another turn, I run 40. The BeeHives do a dam good job of not floating. My Rev Limit is 9200 and I've hit it several times, no float. Good that you are doing "preventive" things so nothing bad happens!

Ahh so the same boat.
Yeah I'm sure these are *probably* fine but I'd rather play it safe. Overbuilt

 

[DSMPT]

The bad news: I'm short 4... They are nowhere to be found.

You can see here ↑, I broke open one of the cracked bearings on one and there are 16 needle bearings (top), I only have 12 (bottom).

If the cylinder head is still on the block, then maybe the missing needle bearings are stuck between the head and the block. If you have a long small head magnet, put it tinto the all oil drain holes in the head. That's where I found a couple of it when this happened to me.

 

[Anfurnyy]

If the cylinder head is still on the block, then maybe the missing needle bearings are stuck between the head and the block. If you have a long small head magnet, put it tinto the all oil drain holes in the head. That's where I found a couple of it when this happened to me.

I'll definitely check there. I visually looked but didn't see anything.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Those needles will hide in crevices in the head for sure. Use a good magnet, as suggested, and see if it will find another 1 or more. I had 3 that were broken and they were in little places and grooves. You could put a super magnet on the bottom of the pan to try and capture any if they get in the oil flow. They won't get through the pickup screen. You may find one in an oil change. I know you must be worried but I don't think they are going to hurt anything, but in the back of your mind, you are always wondering and bothered by it.