Yellow brick road to 300 horsepower

[arabeclipse]

I know there's tons of threads on this subject but I figure I might as well ask so I can get a straight answer. Once I get everything's straight on my car (need new throttle body, new TPS, new air filter, a better tune, new UICP, fix boost leak, etc..) I'm thinking to bring my car up to 300 horsepower at 17-20psi. Now I'm wondering if these mods will be sufficient enough to take care of that goal:

- 650cc injectors
- 3" turbo back (I'm thinking thermal r&d, I'm running stock still)
- 250 fuel pump? Do I even need this?
- BPR7ES plugs? (I'm using BPR6ES less than two weeks old)

Anything else I need? My mods now are boost controller, boost gauge, cold air intake, 3" GM MAFT. I'm at 15psi and honestly since I've tuned it with the MAFT, this thing pulls way past my expectations. But I know this car has much more potential.

I plan to stick with the t-25 so please don't suggest a bigger turbo.

EDIT: after 3 pages of people's help, I realize the t-25 isn't going to cut it.

 

[markeski]

I have similar mods but upgraded to the 16g turbo and am now in the 300hp range at the wheels. I also have an upgraded fuel system (1100cc injectors, fuel pump), turbo back exhaust and fmic. I'm running 20 psi.

 

[Pipnorcali]

Keep your eyes out for a used t28 and just tell people it's a t25 that's what I do...hahahha

 

[ricktb]

I am going for a 300+ goal and I have the following upgrades so far..

K&N FIPK Air filter with stock MAF
Small 16G turbo
FP cast exhaust manifold
Evo O2 housing
3' Straight pipe exhaust with cat elim and high flow V-Force muffler
AEM Wideband sensor to montior Air/Fuel Ratio (very important)
1G blow off valve uncrushed so far
VR Speed Front mount intercooler with 2.5" hard piping kit from turbo to TB
Hallman pro Manual Boost controller (to control turbo wastegate open/closed PSI)
20 psi Boost gauge
Iridium spark plugs
mishimoto aluminum thick core radiator with 2-12' electric slim line fans (rewired - on all the time)

Upgrades to go before I reach my goal..

Fuel injectors I was thinking 750cc for my setup.
Fuel pump probably a walbro 255, with fuel pressure regulator, rewired.
High flow fuel filter? Fuel Rail? SS lines? eventually..
Coil on plug setup? eventually...
Water/meth injection? eventually..
Speed density or GM MAF setup? eventually..
Ecmlink engine managment software for final tune.
ARP Head studs to hold the engine together.

Big BRAKES, might need em
Suspension and sway bars done already..
Lightweight rims and racing tires, done.. 235 Falkens on Motegi Rims 17"

Thats about it I would think I should get over 300-350hp with all this stuff and a good tune might need help at that point from dsmtuners.

I still have maintenance to do.

Timing belt and pulleys
alignment
replace rear control arm
oil pump
water pump
balance shaft elim
misc sensors
worn coolant lines
etc...


GOOD LUCK

 

[casperfast]

i will never forget my first drive after i ditched my t25 for a 14b. it would be worth your while to get a 14b or 16g if you can get one. i know you didnt want to hear that but... 300 hp is more than you might think. but that is a good number for a fun street car

 

[turboglenn]

te only other way to suggest something for 300hp from that turbo is to tell you to nfollow that yellow brick road because only the wizard can give the trying-dissum the set of balls it's always wanted (best analogy i could coe up with related to the yellow brickroad and WOO)

 

[iBoostDSM]

I am going for a 300+ goal and I have the following upgrades so far..

K&N FIPK Air filter with stock MAF
Small 16G turbo
FP cast exhaust manifold
Evo O2 housing
3' Straight pipe exhaust with cat elim and high flow V-Force muffler
AEM Wideband sensor to montior Air/Fuel Ratio (very important)
1G blow off valve uncrushed so far
VR Speed Front mount intercooler with 2.5" hard piping kit from turbo to TB
Hallman pro Manual Boost controller (to control turbo wastegate open/closed PSI)
20 psi Boost gauge
Iridium spark plugs
mishimoto aluminum thick core radiator with 2-12' electric slim line fans (rewired - on all the time)

Upgrades to go before I reach my goal..

Fuel injectors I was thinking 750cc for my setup.
Fuel pump probably a walbro 255, with fuel pressure regulator, rewired.
High flow fuel filter? Fuel Rail? SS lines? eventually..
Coil on plug setup? eventually...
Water/meth injection? eventually..
Speed density or GM MAF setup? eventually..
Ecmlink engine managment software for final tune.
ARP Head studs to hold the engine together.

Big BRAKES, might need em
Suspension and sway bars done already..
Lightweight rims and racing tires, done.. 235 Falkens on Motegi Rims 17"

Thats about it I would think I should get over 300-350hp with all this stuff and a good tune might need help at that point from dsmtuners.

I still have maintenance to do.

Timing belt and pulleys
alignment
replace rear control arm
oil pump
water pump
balance shaft elim
misc sensors
worn coolant lines
etc...


GOOD LUCK

The only things you NEED in your list to reach 300whp is the injectors, fuel pump, dsmlink, and ARP's. The rest is overkill for 300whp. If you want more later than you may need some of the other upgrades you listed. But like everyone else will say, make sure to take care of maintenance first! You don't want unnecessary stuff breaking.

 

[99ECLIPSEGSXDSM]

The only things you NEED in your list to reach 300whp is the injectors, fuel pump, dsmlink, and ARP's. The rest is overkill for 300whp. If you want more later than you may need some of the other upgrades you listed. But like everyone else will say, make sure to take care of maintenance first! You don't want unnecessary stuff breaking.

He won't NEED ARPs but it's recommended.

All you really need really is dsmlink, injectors, 190 fuel pump and a bigger boost gauge. Probably 30psi gauge. Big brakes arnt needed. Just get some quality pads and slotted rotors.
A small 16g is gonna be harder to get to 300 so you might need a set of 272 cams or go for a Evo3

 

[Cdc1221]

te only other way to suggest something for 300hp from that turbo is to tell you to nfollow that yellow brick road because only the wizard can give the trying-dissum the set of balls it's always wanted (best analogy i could coe up with related to the yellow brickroad and WOO)

Hey who knows, you could probly run TWIN t25s and achieve 400+. I thought about it back when i had two on a shelf + the one on the car and was broke but wanting more. But probly not worth it because complexity and the extra weight. Buttt, i have to wonder about a t25 paired with a 20g . In boost pretty much from take off to redline

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

Hey who knows, you could probly run TWIN t25s and achieve 400+. I thought about it back when i had two on a shelf + the one on the car and was broke but wanting more. But probly not worth it because complexity and the extra weight. Buttt, i have to wonder about a t25 paired with a 20g . In boost pretty much from take off to redline

Bt28 or 14b would be the ideal match to a 20g

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Not really, especially if they are both TD05H turbines. A T25 in that case would be a closer match. Still too small on the turbine side for both stages though.

Primary compressor (big turbo) needs a large turbine wheel and housing.. and really feeding a 46-48lb/min compressor into a 33-35lb/min compressor doesn't make any sense.

Maybe on a smaller displacement motor, like a 1.5 where it would make more sense to have a 20G compounding with a TD04-9B

Depending on the use of the car, more often than not the compressor split is best around 2:1. So a 14B and an HX40, or a 16G and a GT40R would both be great on a high rpm 2.0. You need a lot of WG on the secondary stage (small turbo) to have any hope of controlling boost and keeping the motor from choking.

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

Wait i think i got the compound wrong in my head. I was thinking small to large but its vise versa isn't it?

 

[Cdc1221]

I wasnt talking compound setup, where you cant flow anymore air than the primary can flow. Im talking twin turbo, so both turbos draw atmospheric and 'compound' the air into the intercooler. Im probly wrong on the t25 idea though. A 9b off a 3kgt tt would be a better choice of primary

 

[ricktb]

well I'll get the things you mentioned and well see how far i can take that small 16 G! 550 CFMs if I remember correctly compared to the 250-300 CFMs of the t-25, thats almost double the flow

 

[99ECLIPSEGSXDSM]

Think it's 505 for a small 16g

 

[turboglenn]

might as well go 18 or 20g since you're talking about a 16g, because when you feelthe gains and see that LAG isn't near the way the implort car kids hype it up to be, then you realize trading an extra 50-70HP FOR A FEW HUNDREDe rpm slower spool isn't bad at all, I got carried away with it over the years since it's really never hurt things in any way it wasn't untill i went up to a HUGE 6776 PTE turbo that i became to get frustrated with the ON/OFF style power in traffic, great for the track i'm sure but it really sucks when you get to the point where you can't semi lug the engine into a pass or you have to downshift to make it up a slight incline if you didn't have the RPM's up in the ciurrect gear

That's why i'm still all hyped on my custom holset, it's already broken the 500hp barrier to the weheels and hasn't even pushed near the end of it's efficiency yet, AND it spools faster than my old T3/T4 50 and 57 trim turbos did.

maybge it's because i went into my eclipse coming from a twin turbo mustang that wasn't buyilt correctly as far as tuning and fuel support as well as a 3.8 liter force fed V6, but there's just never really been a 16g car that impressed me... I mean i've been in some fast ones but i've never felt the type of power that i like from one, it's always been something T3/T4 or larger that's made my eyes get big and fun ny thing is (and this was before the earthquake and floods that drove MHI prices up) but you can get the garrett for 2/3s the price of the MHI in most cases (save for the S16g)

 

[Cdc1221]

Damn i wasnt aware a hx35 (or hx3558 ) would spool that fast. That is the route i ultimately want to take. And mostly because of reading your thread on it glenn, you talking about breaking all four loose, and the sound that turbo makes spooling, up or down. I dont know if itd be too great for me on the gst though because its fwd

 

[e85_4g63]

How did this thread go from helping the OP reach 300hp to a compound turbo discussion?

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

How did this thread go from helping the OP reach 300hp to a compound turbo discussion?

OP disappeared

Wait i think i got the compound wrong in my head. I was thinking small to large but its vise versa isn't it?

Compound turbos or compressors in series have to be routed like this:

Intake side:
Atmosphere -> Big Turbo Compressor -> Small Turbo Compressor -> Engine

Exhaust Side:
Engine -> Small Turbo Turbine -> Big Turbo Turbine -> Atmosphere

So you have the spool of the small turbo, and the massflow of the big turbo.

I wasnt talking compound setup, where you cant flow anymore air than the primary can flow. Im talking twin turbo, so both turbos draw atmospheric and 'compound' the air into the intercooler. Im probly wrong on the t25 idea though. A 9b off a 3kgt tt would be a better choice of primary

You are talking about a symmetric set of twins plumbed in parallel. There is no "compounding" occuring there.

This has been tried with T25s, it failed.

Mostly because in order to do it "properly" you have to pair the cylinders as such that overlap is not a problem, consequently each turbine only gets one exhaust pulse every 360* of crank rotation, and its the equivalent of having one very large turbine housing. Response is very poor, spool is very slow and you would be far better off with a single TD05H 20G.

The 9B and T25 compressors are both small and inefficient to begin with.. For the trouble and expense required to plumb two sets of oil feeds, make all your own Y-pipes, double the wastegate lines, basically two O2 housings and downpipes, etc. going with more than one turbo on an in-line 4 cylinder only makes sense with a compound setup.

Even then, if you are looking at T25s and the flow they would support a single modern 500hp capable turbo would perform better in every conceivable fashion and remain a magnitude of order simpler.

I'm not sure on what planet a TD04-9B would be a good choice of primary for anything besides a lawnmower or a very small displacement bike though.

 

[Cdc1221]

I wouldnt say a small displacement bike. From what ive seen on turboing a bike, they get a very good jump in hp off +1 or 2 psi. Although there is a custom shop in europe putting 16gs on cbr600rrs, it was disputed on the cbr forum whether it would spool enough to even see + pressure by redline . And i know, i was just thinking out of my ass on that one. Im very happy with the spool on my 16g

 

[arabeclipse]

WHOA guys this thread got crazy, and I thought it died out!

Ok, since I made this thread, I have gotten as far as getting a full Megan turboback installed.

After all of your guy's help, I'm gonna do a 16g from RRE and 550 injectors.

SHOULD I rewire my fuel pump? I'm gonna boost like 20psi.

I am going for a 300+ goal and I have the following upgrades so far..

K&N FIPK Air filter with stock MAF
Small 16G turbo
FP cast exhaust manifold
Evo O2 housing
3' Straight pipe exhaust with cat elim and high flow V-Force muffler
AEM Wideband sensor to montior Air/Fuel Ratio (very important)
1G blow off valve uncrushed so far
VR Speed Front mount intercooler with 2.5" hard piping kit from turbo to TB
Hallman pro Manual Boost controller (to control turbo wastegate open/closed PSI)
20 psi Boost gauge
Iridium spark plugs
mishimoto aluminum thick core radiator with 2-12' electric slim line fans (rewired - on all the time)

Upgrades to go before I reach my goal..

Fuel injectors I was thinking 750cc for my setup.
Fuel pump probably a walbro 255, with fuel pressure regulator, rewired.
High flow fuel filter? Fuel Rail? SS lines? eventually..
Coil on plug setup? eventually...
Water/meth injection? eventually..
Speed density or GM MAF setup? eventually..
Ecmlink engine managment software for final tune.
ARP Head studs to hold the engine together.

Big BRAKES, might need em
Suspension and sway bars done already..
Lightweight rims and racing tires, done.. 235 Falkens on Motegi Rims 17"

Thats about it I would think I should get over 300-350hp with all this stuff and a good tune might need help at that point from dsmtuners.

I still have maintenance to do.

Timing belt and pulleys
alignment
replace rear control arm
oil pump
water pump
balance shaft elim
misc sensors
worn coolant lines
etc...


GOOD LUCK

I already know you don't need ALL of this stuff for the same power goals as I have. But it's your boat and whatever makes it float is up to you. Good luck to you also.

 

[BoyRacerBlu]

the FULL easy recipe for 300whp

walbro 190lph 3000gt vr4/stealth tt 180lph fuel pump- 3s community can put over 300 awhp down through a v6 on the stock pump.

evo560cc injectors

16G- or you can make it into a super/bastard 16g (20G comp wheel and comp cover) for not much more

act 2100

some sort of IC setup that better than stock- ebay works for a FMIC setup- large sidemount and hardpiping

some sort of BOV better than stock- Evo9 is a good recirc choice- some ppl swear by crushed 1g bov- I've never had any luck wth those- otherwise ebay recirc works if you trust it

3" downpipe- big gains in midrange and peak as well as boost response to be found here- car begins to wake up with a good DP selection. Again, ebay good budget choice

test pipe

boost gauge

boost controller- menards racing or home depot performance special if your on a budget, check the writeups, otherwise hallman in cabin setup works or if your willing to spend.

wide band

some form of engine manadgement/piggy back- an safc will get you buy on evo 560's on the stock maf




pretty much a 300whp machine on pump for daily use- still responsive, but still has overhead for going a little bit bigger.



..................750cc injectors and a big brake kit with COP for 300whp? I mean really??

 

[TSI_93]

COP is largely an underhood appearance mod. Same thing can be had for a lot cheaper if you just get/make a spark plug cover.

 

[2gmitsueclipse]

Yes, you need to rewire your fuel pump. You have not mentioned much about a boost gauge, boost controller, or management. GM Maf or AFC would work for you. I had a GST and one of the most frustrating things I noticed when I went to an EVO III 16g, was putting the power down. Instead of going for even more power, I sprung for an lsd for the trans and evo8 wheels. Just thought I would share my experience on the road to power.

 

[turbotom]

There is no way you can have the t25 to push 300hp, my buddies car made 298hp on a stock 7 bolt, 14b, 3 inch exhaust, 550s, ECMLink, fmic all while having boost leaks,. I don't want to say just put a bigger turbo but in this case you need too.

 

[arabeclipse]

Yes, you need to rewire your fuel pump. You have not mentioned much about a boost gauge, boost controller, or management. GM Maf or AFC would work for you. I had a GST and one of the most frustrating things I noticed when I went to an EVO III 16g, was putting the power down. Instead of going for even more power, I sprung for an lsd for the trans and evo8 wheels. Just thought I would share my experience on the road to power.

I have a boost controller and gauge and I am tuning with a maft. Putting the power down will be an issue but I'm not that type to drive the piss out of the car from first to fourth gear.

There is no way you can have the t25 to push 300hp, my buddies car made 298hp on a stock 7 bolt, 14b, 3 inch exhaust, 550s, ECMLink, fmic all while having boost leaks,. I don't want to say just put a bigger turbo but in this case you need too.

This went out to be three pages long, I already know a t25 won't make it that far .

the FULL easy recipe for 300whp

walbro 190lph 3000gt vr4/stealth tt 180lph fuel pump- 3s community can put over 300 awhp down through a v6 on the stock pump.

evo560cc injectors

16G- or you can make it into a super/bastard 16g (20G comp wheel and comp cover) for not much more

act 2100

some sort of IC setup that better than stock- ebay works for a FMIC setup- large sidemount and hardpiping

some sort of BOV better than stock- Evo9 is a good recirc choice- some ppl swear by crushed 1g bov- I've never had any luck wth those- otherwise ebay recirc works if you trust it

3" downpipe- big gains in midrange and peak as well as boost response to be found here- car begins to wake up with a good DP selection. Again, ebay good budget choice

test pipe

boost gauge

boost controller- menards racing or home depot performance special if your on a budget, check the writeups, otherwise hallman in cabin setup works or if your willing to spend.

wide band

some form of engine manadgement/piggy back- an safc will get you buy on evo 560's on the stock maf




pretty much a 300whp machine on pump for daily use- still responsive, but still has overhead for going a little bit bigger.



..................750cc injectors and a big brake kit with COP for 300whp? I mean really??

What i already have installed:
3" exhaust from turbo to cat (no cat convertor)
boost controller
boost gauge
3" maf-t
GReddy bov
hard ic piping

What I need:
Turbo (EDIT from last post...I guess RRE stopped selling imported mitsu turbos)
Injectors
fuel pump rewire
bigger intercooler...what sucks about this one is I want to keep my foglights.