Yellow brick road to 300 horsepower

[arabeclipse]

I know there's tons of threads on this subject but I figure I might as well ask so I can get a straight answer. Once I get everything's straight on my car (need new throttle body, new TPS, new air filter, a better tune, new UICP, fix boost leak, etc..) I'm thinking to bring my car up to 300 horsepower at 17-20psi. Now I'm wondering if these mods will be sufficient enough to take care of that goal:

- 650cc injectors
- 3" turbo back (I'm thinking thermal r&d, I'm running stock still)
- 250 fuel pump? Do I even need this?
- BPR7ES plugs? (I'm using BPR6ES less than two weeks old)

Anything else I need? My mods now are boost controller, boost gauge, cold air intake, 3" GM MAFT. I'm at 15psi and honestly since I've tuned it with the MAFT, this thing pulls way past my expectations. But I know this car has much more potential.

I plan to stick with the t-25 so please don't suggest a bigger turbo.

EDIT: after 3 pages of people's help, I realize the t-25 isn't going to cut it.

 

[arabeclipse]

JusMX141

I have probably gotten a dozen turbos off of him. He is extremly fair priced considering mitsu turbos went through the roof. I have picked up a freshly rebuilt 14b off of him for 90-100 bucks and small 16gs in the 250-300 range.

Waste your time with the t25 all you want. Enjoy your 5500rpm redline and when you blow it up give him a PM. I dont know where you will find a better rebuilt turbo for the money. Any other member on here is hit or miss on what you order. I have had members on here send me straight up junk 14bs and wasted a 100 dollars.

If you want 300whp forget about your t25. Basics for this are what everyone else has said.

190 walbro, rewired
3inch turbo back exhaust. (get ahold of T-Lane mufflers in Port royal PA) I paid 450 shipped for a 3inch turbo back exhaust with high flow cat and magnaflow muffler. If hes still in business.
14b minimum at 21lbs of boost 16g on 25lbs boost
Hard piping fmic or upgraded smic
tuning options of your choice.
680 injectors.

When you get bored with that like the rest of us and need to cure the itch for more we will be here for you to hit the 400+ hp mark.

Whoa whoa 650 injectors and rewired pump will hold up 21 lbs on a 14b? And THAT is gonna send out 300whp? It sounds like it could even be more than that. I'm gonna talk to JusMX141 and see what will happen. That guy in PA is prob not in business right now due to the hurricane. $450 for an entire exhaust system is not bad at all. I still wanna do Thermal R&D just because of the sound. I don't care about how volume. I already have hard piping throughout the car so I'm set there. And since ill be broke by the end of this, I'm still gonna tune with a MAFT.

Id wait on the turbo upgrade personally. In your current position, id grab a wideband and some 650's first. That would allow you to max out that t25.

Then probably a 3" turbo back. That way you'll be ready for a turbo upgrade. And a rewired 2g fuel pump almost flows as much as a 190. So id leave the rewired stock pump until you go with something larger then a 14b.

Then when the t25 shits the bed, id go ahead and upgrade to a 14b and a fmic. It will make the swap much easier.

That's how I'm thinking to do it. Just steps at a time. I'd do a front mount but I have the smiley face grill and it's not going to look as good. I'll probably just clean out the side mount and keep an eye on it. Or get a supra side mount.

 

[untouchablecc]

Whoa whoa 650 injectors and reqired pump will hold up 21 lbs on a 14b? And THAT is gonna send out 300whp? It sounds like it could even be more than that. I'm gonna talk to JusMX141 and see what will happen. That guy in PA is prob not in business right now due to the hurricane. $450 for an entire exhaust system is not bad at all. I still wanna do Thermal R&D just because of the sound. I don't care about how volume. I already have hard piping throughout the car so I'm set there. And since ill be broke by the end of this, I'm still gonna tune with a MAFT.



That's how I'm thinking to do. Just steps at a time. I'd do a front mount but I have the smiley face grill and it's not going to look as good. I'll probably just clean out the side mount and keep an eye on it. Or get a supra side mount.

Back in the day before there were many tuning options people were going with 550 injectors 2gmaf and an afc tuner and would run 18-20 lbs of boost on a 14b.
It takes a lot more then you think to put down 300whp in an awd then you think.


717) 527-2856
t-lanes muffler

Port royal PA is in the middle of the state I think he is fine, Ive been to his shop although I have no idea why they call it Port Royal, theres nothing there. I bought my exhaust from him years ago and still running the same one. He might be higher on price now but worth a call. His shipping was not bad either.

 

[99ECLIPSEGSXDSM]

Anything bigger the a t25 your stock smic is gonna get heatsoaked so I would get a fmic. I think the 2ga looks good with a fmic unless people hack it up and make a huge/ugly cut out to see the entire intercooler but a supra smic will work good. Just get a walbro 190 and rewire it and be positive your pump can handle more then 300whp

 

[arabeclipse]

Back in the day before there were many tuning options people were going with 550 injectors 2gmaf and an afc tuner and would run 18-20 lbs of boost on a 14b.
It takes a lot more then you think to put down 300whp in an awd then you think.


717) 527-2856
t-lanes muffler

Port royal PA is in the middle of the state I think he is fine, Ive been to his shop although I have no idea why they call it Port Royal, theres nothing there. I bought my exhaust from him years ago and still running the same one. He might be higher on price now but worth a call. His shipping was not bad either.

Oh I can imagine. It would be easier to put the power down on an awd car versus my front wheel drive. But our cars are not necessarily the lightest 2+2 also.

Thanks for his number. I will definitely get ahold of him at some point. I think this is one of the first things I have to do anyway.

Anything bigger the a t25 your stock smic is gonna get heatsoaked so I would get a fmic. I think the 2ga looks good with a fmic unless people hack it up and make a huge/ugly cut out to see the entire intercooler but a supra smic will work good. Just get a walbro 190 and rewire it and be positive your pump can handle more then 300whp

I am not all about looks but I do like a clean looking car. I have seen front mounts on the 2ga cars and it makes the smiley face look even worse . With that said, I am going to look for a supra side mount. Also someone on this thread said that a rewired stock pump will do just as good as a 190 pump to hold 300whp. I am stuck here.

I'm unsure off hand how much airflow a T25 at 15psi should see, but a rewired stock pump will handle more than enough.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-tuning-ecu/366003-injector-fuel-pump-supported-airflow.html

Here it is ^^. sorry, I was mistaken about a rewired pump handling about the same as a walbro 190.

I spoke with Jus and he basically told me that a small 16g is my best bet for 300whp. Also, he doesn't even have any 14b cores to rebuild. I may have the $400 to spend on a s16g but paying for school is first for now.

 

[91stocker]

Just get a walbro 190 and rewire it and be positive your pump can handle more then 300whp

Or know what your talking about and use some simple math.

300hp x 0.42 = 126 lph

Simple equation, 300hp needs about 126lph of fuel.


Stock 2g pump with rewire flows 156lph. Since 156>126 your good to go
RRE Instructions

That's how I'm thinking to do it. Just steps at a time. I'd do a front mount but I have the smiley face grill and it's not going to look as good. I'll probably just clean out the side mount and keep an eye on it. Or get a supra side mount.

Bingo. Small steps, use what you have. Easier on your wallet and keeps downtime to a minimum.

I only mentioned a fmic with the 14b swap because it makes the swap much easier. Since you wont really need the "install kit" then. Just the stuff with the fmic kit.


Everyone's quick to suggest a couple grand part list, but who has that laying around. Theres alot of other things to consider with all that. Broken bolts, cost of replacing all the gaskets, etc, etc all on top of the original cost.

Also hate when people suggest a 16g as the first mod. A properly set up t25 car will rape a car someone just slapped a 16g on. A local guy ran 14.1 with only intake,exhaust,mbc in his 2g gst.

 

[untouchablecc]

Or know what your talking about and use some simple math.

300hp x 0.42 = 126 lph

Simple equation, 300hp needs about 126lph of fuel.


Stock 2g pump with rewire flows 156lph. Since 156>126 your good to go
RRE Instructions



Bingo. Small steps, use what you have. Easier on your wallet and keeps downtime to a minimum.

I only mentioned a fmic with the 14b swap because it makes the swap much easier. Since you wont really need the "install kit" then. Just the stuff with the fmic kit.


Everyone's quick to suggest a couple grand part list, but who has that laying around. Theres alot of other things to consider with all that. Broken bolts, cost of replacing all the gaskets, etc, etc all on top of the original cost.

Also hate when people suggest a 16g as the first mod. A properly set up t25 car will rape a car someone just slapped a 16g on. A local guy ran 14.1 with only intake,exhaust,mbc in his 2g gst.

I do agree with you but the title post is how he can get to 300hp. I dont see a t25 anywhere in that combination of parts making it happen. I fully agree with you though on slapping a 16g on and just thinking your going to conquer the streets/strip. In all probability it will make a car slower as a first mod and have major boost control issues, exposing new boost leaks on 20 year old cars and what not and the boost control issues from running stock exhaust. I do fully agree that you should start with exhaust fuel upgrades tuning then work your way on up to the turbo.

 

[bmxfelon420]

I'd also recommend the SRS exhaust from ebay (i know, boo, ebay fartcan, boo) but honestly it sounded good, fit well and was $325 shipped iirc. I had an obx 3" downpipe and it bolted straight up, no rigging required.

 

[arabeclipse]

Or know what your talking about and use some simple math.

300hp x 0.42 = 126 lph

Simple equation, 300hp needs about 126lph of fuel.


Stock 2g pump with rewire flows 156lph. Since 156>126 your good to go
RRE Instructions



Bingo. Small steps, use what you have. Easier on your wallet and keeps downtime to a minimum.

I only mentioned a fmic with the 14b swap because it makes the swap much easier. Since you wont really need the "install kit" then. Just the stuff with the fmic kit.


Everyone's quick to suggest a couple grand part list, but who has that laying around. Theres alot of other things to consider with all that. Broken bolts, cost of replacing all the gaskets, etc, etc all on top of the original cost.

Also hate when people suggest a 16g as the first mod. A properly set up t25 car will rape a car someone just slapped a 16g on. A local guy ran 14.1 with only intake,exhaust,mbc in his 2g gst.

Rewired stock fuel pump it is then. And I know, right... I don't really have a grand that i want to give up right away. A little at a time will do, since I have other priorities..like school.

But now I have a new issue... I went to a few muffler shops today and not one of them had the tools and fab up a downpipe and another 3" pipe all the way back. Anyone know where I can find a DECENTLY priced 3" downpipe?

And I had the chance to snag a 3" Borla catback for $50. Any reviews on that?

 

[bmxfelon420]

The obx one i bought was 125 and fit just fine.

 

[arabeclipse]

I do agree with you but the title post is how he can get to 300hp. I dont see a t25 anywhere in that combination of parts making it happen. I fully agree with you though on slapping a 16g on and just thinking your going to conquer the streets/strip. In all probability it will make a car slower as a first mod and have major boost control issues, exposing new boost leaks on 20 year old cars and what not and the boost control issues from running stock exhaust. I do fully agree that you should start with exhaust fuel upgrades tuning then work your way on up to the turbo.

Yes sir, primarily working on upgrading fuel and exhaust before I really get into the nitty gritty of finding a 14b or 16g is my first step.

The obx one i bought was 125 and fit just fine.

I'm sorry but I can not stand the fart cannon sound. It really bugs me to no end having to hear it on a Civic (not hating the on car) let alone having to hear a tuner sound on my own car. I'm choosing Thermal R&D because it's rumbly. It almost sounds like an SRT-4 exhaust (which I happen to really like).

For exhaust, all I need is a downpipe and the Thermal catback by itself. I can fab up a test pipe myself. I can't find either DP or that catback.

 

[bmxfelon420]

Yes sir, primarily working on upgrading fuel and exhaust before I really get into the nitty gritty of finding a 14b or 16g is my first step.



I'm sorry but I can not stand the fart cannon sound. It really bugs me to no end having to hear it on a Civic (not hating the on car) let alone having to hear a tuner sound on my own car. I'm choosing Thermal R&D because it's rumbly. It almost sounds like an SRT-4 exhaust (which I happen to really like).

For exhaust, all I need is a downpipe and the Thermal catback by itself. I can fab up a test pipe myself. I can't find either DP or that catback.

It didnt really sound like that to me, it was actually pretty quiet while cruising, and pretty deep at WOT. I know the sound you're talking about because my accord sounded like that, and this isnt anything like it.

 

[rx7ttlm]

300 on the stock turbo isn't happening. The 14b tops out at about 300 in real world practice. But if your going to change turbos I would say just get a 16g and leave it. It's what 90% of dsm'rs need/ want. Anyhow, read the forums. There is a lot of knowledge in here. Ex, I have a 1g with a Big 16g and it's pretty fun. If your half serious about making power easily you should do what I did and get DSM Link Lite. It's pretty cheap, but opens up a world of tuning/ logging.

 

[arabeclipse]

It didnt really sound like that to me, it was actually pretty quiet while cruising, and pretty deep at WOT. I know the sound you're talking about because my accord sounded like that, and this isnt anything like it.

I've been searching for that OBX downpipe and I can't find it less than $130ish. Gotta do what you gotta do I guess.

Here's a perfect example of what I am looking for:
Eclipse Turbo Back Thermal R&D Exhaust - YouTube

I can't even find a used Thermal CBE.

300 on the stock turbo isn't happening. The 14b tops out at about 300 in real world practice. But if your going to change turbos I would say just get a 16g and leave it. It's what 90% of dsm'rs need/ want. Anyhow, read the forums. There is a lot of knowledge in here. Ex, I have a 1g with a Big 16g and it's pretty fun. If your half serious about making power easily you should do what I did and get DSM Link Lite. It's pretty cheap, but opens up a world of tuning/ logging.

I gotcha man. 14b or 16g it is for 300 horsepower. It's hard to find them though since 14b's are like 18 years old. I'm still lookin though and I only have one physical connection to such things. And yea I need a logger. This is the part where I wish pocketlogger for OBD II was still around.

 

[bmxfelon420]

Not that a video is the best way to tell, but i think that sounds farty compared to mine. It might also be because I have an automatic and i take off at a bit higher of an rpm though partly. IDK, my friend's car has the megan exhaust and looks similar to mine, but his was a lot louder. He also scraped the sound deadening off, so that probably makes a bit of a difference. And honestly, even if you get one and dont like it, you can just get a different muffler or go to a bigger/smaller resonator or something.

My new car has a full 3" downpipe. No idea what brand, but maybe someone would be able to tell by describing it. It's 3" all the way to a the o2 housing, where there's a 2.5 flange and the tubing has little depressions to fit the nuts. It came on the car, so I have no idea what it is. If you can find one, it is pretty nice. It fits well.

 

[arabeclipse]

Not that a video is the best way to tell, but i think that sounds farty compared to mine. It might also be because I have an automatic and i take off at a bit higher of an rpm though partly. IDK, my friend's car has the megan exhaust and looks similar to mine, but his was a lot louder. He also scraped the sound deadening off, so that probably makes a bit of a difference. And honestly, even if you get one and dont like it, you can just get a different muffler or go to a bigger/smaller resonator or something.

My new car has a full 3" downpipe. No idea what brand, but maybe someone would be able to tell by describing it. It's 3" all the way to a the o2 housing, where there's a 2.5 flange and the tubing has little depressions to fit the nuts. It came on the car, so I have no idea what it is. If you can find one, it is pretty nice. It fits well.

I'd agree with you if I could hear yours. One shop I went to today tried convincing me that I don't need a 3" downpipe to achieve my power goals, and that ALL the restriction will be relieved when I add a 3" catback. I'm like uh... if you open up the exit of exhaust by a quarter of an inch (because I've read somewhere that a DP isn't exactly 3".. only 2.74"), you will have less restriction. They didn't believe me. I think this was their way of saying that they don't have the tools to make downpipe for me. Or maybe I really am wrong.

But in a nutshell for exhaust, all I really need is a 3" DP and a 3" catback as a step to 300hp? And the cat is up to me to keep obviously.

 

[untouchablecc]

I've been searching for that OBX downpipe and I can't find it less than $130ish. Gotta do what you gotta do I guess.

Here's a perfect example of what I am looking for:
Eclipse Turbo Back Thermal R&D Exhaust - YouTube

I can't even find a used Thermal CBE.



I gotcha man. 14b or 16g it is for 300 horsepower. It's hard to find them though since 14b's are like 18 years old. I'm still lookin though and I only have one physical connection to such things. And yea I need a logger. This is the part where I wish pocketlogger for OBD II was still around.

HAHAHAH sorry I just listened to that video and I do like the way it sounds but the first thing I thought of was a green 2g with a blitz body kit and some NOS mayn. Sounds just like the eclipse from FaF. I have yet to see an exhaust on these cars that sounds ricey. I think its impossible because of it being turbo but there is a first for everything. The ebay exhaust is not a bad sounding one. Sometimes you run into fitment issues with those but nothing you cant work around. Chinabay quality control is not all that and a bag of chips.

 

[arabeclipse]

HAHAHAH sorry I just listened to that video and I do like the way it sounds but the first thing I thought of was a green 2g with a blitz body kit and some NOS mayn. Sounds just like the eclipse from FaF. I have yet to see an exhaust on these cars that sounds ricey. I think its impossible because of it being turbo but there is a first for everything. The ebay exhaust is not a bad sounding one. Sometimes you run into fitment issues with those but nothing you cant work around. Chinabay quality control is not all that and a bag of chips.

That's funny man. I'm sure you're aware that the Type S bov is pretty popular- whether because of the movie or not, idk. And that's what I have because it was a super cheap mod to not leak past 12psi. Everyone, including my 50 year old dad- soft Chevy Caprice lovin man- loves the sound. This thread isn't about that though.

On that note, I'm still doing research. If an OBX downpipe will fit to Thermal catback then I'll take it. Bmxfelon is right.. a video can't give you real life quality of what something sounds like, but by the sound of it, I like it. If I'm going to go to 300hp, I might as well put on something that I can live with.

 

[rx7ttlm]

I can't even find a used Thermal CBE.



I gotcha man. 14b or 16g it is for 300 horsepower. It's hard to find them though since 14b's are like 18 years old. I'm still lookin though and I only have one physical connection to such things. And yea I need a logger. This is the part where I wish pocketlogger for OBD II was still around.

Part of the issue with running a 14b is that unless you stole one off my shelf most are whooped and are in need of rebuild. Unless you want to throw another 400 bucks into it to rebuild it it's pointless. Trust me. I am on my 11teenth turbo and part of the 500 hp club. Just do it right the first time. Find a 16g (big or small) with minimal shaft play and not to much cracking on the turbine housing and send it. Then if it does shit the bed, you have a turbo worth rebuilding/ upgrading.

 

[arabeclipse]

Part of the issue with running a 14b is that unless you stole one off my shelf most are whooped and are in need of rebuild. Unless you want to throw another 400 bucks into it to rebuild it it's pointless. Trust me. I am on my 11teenth turbo and part of the 500 hp club. Just do it right the first time. Find a 16g (big or small) with minimal shaft play and not to much cracking on the turbine housing and send it. Then if it does shit the bed, you have a turbo worth rebuilding/ upgrading.

Ah man you're so right. I have to put cost into the equation though. Is there a cost difference between a s16g and a big one?

 

[rcarbajal4]

Part of the issue with running a 14b is that unless you stole one off my shelf most are whooped and are in need of rebuild. Unless you want to throw another 400 bucks into it to rebuild it it's pointless. Trust me. I am on my 11teenth turbo and part of the 500 hp club. Just do it right the first time. Find a 16g (big or small) with minimal shaft play and not to much cracking on the turbine housing and send it. Then if it does shit the bed, you have a turbo worth rebuilding/ upgrading.

How is it 400? I rebuilt mine for $55. But OP, look into the srs catback from japanimportshop on ebay. Its a nice exhaust and has a nice deep tone to it.

 

[arabeclipse]

How is it 400? I rebuilt mine for $55. But OP, look into the srs catback from japanimportshop on ebay. Its a nice exhaust and has a nice deep tone to it.

I just looked into it. In all honesty, it sounds good. But in my honest opinion, I still want something that rumbles. The thermal catback is closest I can find that meets my satisfaction but it's seriously way too expensive. Can you think of any alternatives to something that rumbles?

 

[arabeclipse]

So I was looking at big 16g's. With this turbo, I'd have to go with a 255lph pump, right?

 

[PFC_CiarlilloM]

Regarding 190 vs 255 -Depends on your power goals, but you most likely won't need anything more than a 190LPH pump.

 

[rx7ttlm]

How is it 400? I rebuilt mine for $55. But OP, look into the srs catback from japanimportshop on ebay. Its a nice exhaust and has a nice deep tone to it.

You likely didn't balance the turbo at the $55 price point either. Which if done incorrectly will undo all the work you put into it. Most shops that do balance turbos won't balance them unless they do the rebuild. I am guessing you also didn't check/ set oil clearance or polish the shaft/ hone / size the bushings.

<---- Used to build F18 engines for a living.

 

[arabeclipse]

Regarding 190 vs 255 -Depends on your power goals, but you most likely won't need anything more than a 190LPH pump.

Alright nice. So to recap, for this project I mainly need:

- 16g turbo
- 650 injectors
- rewired or 190lph pump
- 3" turboback

Edit: I forgot to mention that this is my DD. is it still safe to do this project? I don't drive crazy .