Yellow brick road to 300 horsepower

[arabeclipse]

I know there's tons of threads on this subject but I figure I might as well ask so I can get a straight answer. Once I get everything's straight on my car (need new throttle body, new TPS, new air filter, a better tune, new UICP, fix boost leak, etc..) I'm thinking to bring my car up to 300 horsepower at 17-20psi. Now I'm wondering if these mods will be sufficient enough to take care of that goal:

- 650cc injectors
- 3" turbo back (I'm thinking thermal r&d, I'm running stock still)
- 250 fuel pump? Do I even need this?
- BPR7ES plugs? (I'm using BPR6ES less than two weeks old)

Anything else I need? My mods now are boost controller, boost gauge, cold air intake, 3" GM MAFT. I'm at 15psi and honestly since I've tuned it with the MAFT, this thing pulls way past my expectations. But I know this car has much more potential.

I plan to stick with the t-25 so please don't suggest a bigger turbo.

EDIT: after 3 pages of people's help, I realize the t-25 isn't going to cut it.

 

[hubz91talontsi]

I don't think it will happen with a t25. If you make it to 300 you may have the highest horsepower t25 powered car without nitrous. You have a much better chance of making 300 on the 14b.

 

[arabeclipse]

I don't think it will happen with a t25. If you make it to 300 you may have the highest horsepower t25 powered car without nitrous. You have a much better chance of making 300 on the 14b.

I figured that. Well how far do you think I can go wit a t-25 and those mods I listed?

 

[hubz91talontsi]

On race fuel 250fwhp pushed to the max with the maft. With dsmlink maybe 275fwhp on a good day. Most people just throw on a 14b which you can acquire for $100. dsmparts has the conversion kit for 2g cars listed at $173 im sure you can put something together much cheaper.

 

[Mike02rt]

I know there's tons of threads on this subject...
I plan to stick with the t-25 so please don't suggest a bigger turbo.

There is a lot of info, and all will end with ditch the t25 and go bigger.
14b is a very potent turbo as well as most 16g variant. There are a lot of deals out there and it'd be a waste imho to keep the t25 on your quest to 300hp (waste of time).

 

[AK Maniak]

Not gonna happen with a t25, sorry. Couple things I feel I should mention is that plugs won't net you power. I think you meant 255 fuel pump not 250; and if you get that fuel pump then you will also need a fuel pressure regulator. The Thermal R&D exhaust is a catback that necks down to 2.5'' in order to be a direct fit to the stock cat. You can however purchase a revised Thermal cat back that is a true 3" all the way back from SIM.

Just take baby steps. You still have quite a bit of research to do before you get to 300hp but you're headed in the right direction and off to a decent start.

 

[99ECLIPSEGSXDSM]

I know there's tons of threads on this subject but I figure I might as well ask so I can get a straight answer. Once I get everything's straight on my car (need new throttle body, new TPS, new air filter, a better tune, new UICP, fix boost leak, etc..) I'm thinking to bring my car up to 300 horsepower at 17-20psi. Now I'm wondering if these mods will be sufficient enough to take care of that goal:

- 650cc injectors
- 3" turbo back (I'm thinking thermal r&d, I'm running stock still)
- 250 fuel pump? Do I even need this?
- BPR7ES plugs? (I'm using BPR6ES less than two weeks old)

Anything else I need? My mods now are boost controller, boost gauge, cold air intake, 3" GM MAFT. I'm at 15psi and honestly since I've tuned it with the MAFT, this thing pulls way past my expectations. But I know this car has much more potential.

I plan to stick with the t-25 so please don't suggest a bigger turbo.

Get as big of injectors as you can afford. 2.5" or 3" turbo back is good enough for 300 whp. I would go walbro 190 cause you won't have to upgrade your fpr. The highest dyno I've seen on a t25 is 267whp so a upgraded turbo is nessisary for 300whp. After about 15-16 psi the t25 is just pushing hot air and isn't doing anything to help plus it falls off the top end around 5.5 rpms and you'll need to get a turbo that will not drop till 7k. If I was you I would swap for a 14b or 16g unless you want the stock appering turbo go with a big t28 if your serious about 300whp. Fallow the upgrade path (cause it's proven) and trust it.

 

[98EVOECLIPSE]

Get a 16g turbo and it'll get there. I've got a evoIII 16g with supporting mods and I'm around 300

 

[campos_racing]

16g is the way too go. A 14b can achieve your goal, but why would you want to be stressing the turbo so much. Get a 16g, id you can abig 16g and that will add alot of power.

Wouldnt he have to tune it with safc2 or dsmlink to compensate the 650cc injectors? I believe you would be running rich with no tune.

 

[gusu]

16g is the way too go. A 14b can achieve your goal, but why would you want to be stressing the turbo so much. Get a 16g, id you can abig 16g and that will add alot of power.

Wouldnt he have to tune it with safc2 or dsmlink to compensate the 650cc injectors? I believe you would be running rich with no tune.

He already state he didn't want to upgrade the turbo. Odds are he is trying to be cheap, which I don't blame him seems how 300hp is easily achievable.

The 16g will cost 2 and a half to three and a half times more than the 14b, will support more sure but at the cost of slight spool.

Why not push a cheap 14b when you can go through 2-3 for the price of one Evo III 16g? By push, I don't mean blow the hell out of it so you get bits of your turbo in your motor of course.

Still good advice from you though. I do think believe the best answer we can give him is to do his own research to find the turbo that suits his needs the best.

 

[perks563]

Click on the "Tech" section at the top left of the site. A drop down will appear and from there, you can navigate to horsepower mods, suspension mods, etc.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/tech.html

 

[campos_racing]

But as the saying goes. Do it right the first time! Otherwise you be throwing your money away in the long run.

 

[arabeclipse]

On race fuel 250fwhp pushed to the max with the maft. With dsmlink maybe 275fwhp on a good day. Most people just throw on a 14b which you can acquire for $100. dsmparts has the conversion kit for 2g cars listed at $173 im sure you can put something together much cheaper.

Wow that's not bad. Will all the oil and coolant fittings be golden or do I have to some modifications to make it fit?

Not gonna happen with a t25, sorry. Couple things I feel I should mention is that plugs won't net you power. I think you meant 255 fuel pump not 250; and if you get that fuel pump then you will also need a fuel pressure regulator. The Thermal R&D exhaust is a catback that necks down to 2.5'' in order to be a direct fit to the stock cat. You can however purchase a revised Thermal cat back that is a true 3" all the way back from SIM.

Just take baby steps. You still have quite a bit of research to do before you get to 300hp but you're headed in the right direction and off to a decent start.

Since Michigan doesn't have emissions, i'm probably going to just use a test pipe. I'm going to see if it's just a tad cheaper to have a muffler shop fix me up a downpipe all the way to the catback. Every penny counts but obviously can't be a cheapass when it comes to this.

Get as big of injectors as you can afford. 2.5" or 3" turbo back is good enough for 300 whp. I would go walbro 190 cause you won't have to upgrade your fpr. The highest dyno I've seen on a t25 is 267whp so a upgraded turbo is nessisary for 300whp. After about 15-16 psi the t25 is just pushing hot air and isn't doing anything to help plus it falls off the top end around 5.5 rpms and you'll need to get a turbo that will not drop till 7k. If I was you I would swap for a 14b or 16g unless you want the stock appering turbo go with a big t28 if your serious about 300whp. Fallow the upgrade path (cause it's proven) and trust it.

I've been following it and I have everything on the car except for big enough injectors and a turboback exhaust. But do i REALLY need a 255 fuel pump? The injectors wouldn't spray enough fuel with the stock pump?

He already state he didn't want to upgrade the turbo. Odds are he is trying to be cheap, which I don't blame him seems how 300hp is easily achievable.

The 16g will cost 2 and a half to three and a half times more than the 14b, will support more sure but at the cost of slight spool.

Why not push a cheap 14b when you can go through 2-3 for the price of one Evo III 16g? By push, I don't mean blow the hell out of it so you get bits of your turbo in your motor of course.

Still good advice from you though. I do think believe the best answer we can give him is to do his own research to find the turbo that suits his needs the best.

I am not necessarily trying to be cheap. I thought I could use the t-25 because I had a cousin who had a GST with the t-25 head up to nearly 300 HP. I honestly can't remember the exact number but I do remember it was up there.




Overall, I do want to do this right the first time. These cars have a lot of potential and I just want to get the car up and running this fast just as a hobby.

And where's a good place to get a 14b turbo? I've been looking and I'm not finding anything.

 

[bmxfelon420]

I am not necessarily trying to be cheap. I thought I could use the t-25 because I had a cousin who had a GST with the t-25 head up to nearly 300 HP. I honestly can't remember the exact number but I do remember it was up there.




Overall, I do want to do this right the first time. These cars have a lot of potential and I just want to get the car up and running this fast just as a hobby.

I have a real hard time believing a t25 could get anywhere close to 300hp. Even on a Dynojet. And for reference, a 2.5" exhaust will only hurt you when you're trying to get 300hp. My buddy had a big 16g, intake, and fuel system with a front mount and a 2.5 exhaust and he only made 278 on a Mustang with pump gas. The next year, on the same dyno with a 3" exhaust, no cat and on e85, he made 308. Another guy i know with a 1g and a bushur 16g makes 315 with an EMS and on race gas.

I guess what i'm saying is you're going to have a way harder time, more money and more tuning into trying to get big power out of a tiny hairdryer turbo than you would if you were to just buy one that isnt flowing off of it's compressor map to make power.

 

[arabeclipse]

I have a real hard time believing a t25 could get anywhere close to 300hp. Even on a Dynojet. And for reference, a 2.5" exhaust will only hurt you when you're trying to get 300hp. My buddy had a big 16g, intake, and fuel system with a front mount and a 2.5 exhaust and he only made 278 on a Mustang with pump gas. The next year, on the same dyno with a 3" exhaust, no cat and on e85, he made 308. Another guy i know with a 1g and a bushur 16g makes 315 with an EMS and on race gas.

I guess what i'm saying is you're going to have a way harder time, more money and more tuning into trying to get big power out of a tiny hairdryer turbo than you would if you were to just buy one that isnt flowing off of it's compressor map to make power.

You and everyone else have opened my eyes to that. I see why they call it a t-2small.

 

[bmxfelon420]

You and everyone else have opened my eyes to that. I see why they call it a t-2small.

Good, i'd feel bad if you'd kept trying with that. Also another thing to keep in mind is to make sure you have proper grounds. It has been dyno proven in a lot of cases to gain HP in cars that are poorly grounded (i.e. like my talon that would lose cruise control when the headlights were on )

 

[c2ypt1c]

Yeah 250hp is probably the upper limit. e85 and a tune would be a must. Now, if you're talking about 1/4th mile, you could potentially whoop on some 14/16g's but this really is dependent on the driver, suspension, and tune. A couple of people have ran 13.5's and someone has even ran 12's (no nos) with the t25!

 

[arabeclipse]

Good, i'd feel bad if you'd kept trying with that. Also another thing to keep in mind is to make sure you have proper grounds. It has been dyno proven in a lot of cases to gain HP in cars that are poorly grounded (i.e. like my talon that would lose cruise control when the headlights were on )

We're all good electrically So now I gotta save up money for a turbo, injecors, turboback, and a fuel pump. Anyone know where I can pick up a 14b?

Yeah 250hp is probably the upper limit. e85 and a tune would be a must. Now, if you're talking about 1/4th mile, you could potentially whoop on some 14/16g's but this really is dependent on the driver, suspension, and tune. A couple of people have ran 13.5's and someone has even ran 12's (no nos) with the t25!

I still gotta tune. My TB is making a huge boost leak messing up my tune for now. Once i replace it (it's some aftermarket TB so not wasting my time rebuilding it) I gotta tune again. Then all this other stuff is getting slapped on there for another tune .

 

[99ECLIPSEGSXDSM]

You can find all of that in the classified section or you can buy them new from some of our vendors

 

[arabeclipse]

You can find all of that in the classified section or you can buy them new from some of our vendors

Alright thanks. I'm still wondering if an upgraded fuel pump is absolutely necessary.

 

[snowborder714]

I'm unsure off hand how much airflow a T25 at 15psi should see, but a rewired stock pump will handle more than enough.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-tuning-ecu/366003-injector-fuel-pump-supported-airflow.html

 

[arabeclipse]

Alright thanks a lot everyone! I know what I have to do now to reach this goal. It's gonna take a while to get some money together but it'll get done.

 

[91stocker]

Id wait on the turbo upgrade personally. In your current position, id grab a wideband and some 650's first. That would allow you to max out that t25.

Then probably a 3" turbo back. That way you'll be ready for a turbo upgrade. And a rewired 2g fuel pump almost flows as much as a 190. So id leave the rewired stock pump until you go with something larger then a 14b.

Then when the t25 shits the bed, id go ahead and upgrade to a 14b and a fmic. It will make the swap much easier.

 

[my dreamt dsm]

Okay from me personally. I pushed the t25 to 17-20 psi and it didn't last very long. You'll have to think that the turbo is working to hard to support your goal. It's like telling a little kid to lift weights grown men do. bad example. Or like telling a toyota puris to tow what a duramax truck tows.

 

[untouchablecc]

JusMX141

I have probably gotten a dozen turbos off of him. He is extremly fair priced considering mitsu turbos went through the roof. I have picked up a freshly rebuilt 14b off of him for 90-100 bucks and small 16gs in the 250-300 range.

Waste your time with the t25 all you want. Enjoy your 5500rpm redline and when you blow it up give him a PM. I dont know where you will find a better rebuilt turbo for the money. Any other member on here is hit or miss on what you order. I have had members on here send me straight up junk 14bs and wasted a 100 dollars.

If you want 300whp forget about your t25. Basics for this are what everyone else has said.

190 walbro, rewired
3inch turbo back exhaust. (get ahold of T-Lane mufflers in Port royal PA) I paid 450 shipped for a 3inch turbo back exhaust with high flow cat and magnaflow muffler. If hes still in business.
14b minimum at 21lbs of boost 16g on 25lbs boost
Hard piping fmic or upgraded smic
tuning options of your choice.
680 injectors.

When you get bored with that like the rest of us and need to cure the itch for more we will be here for you to hit the 400+ hp mark.