ECMlink WOT pull how is SD chart

[95tsiawd0330]

I did three WOT pulls and used linktools to calculate my SD chart, I know it's not a very smooth sd chart because i have been working on third gear pulls from 2000rpm to 6500 but it has not been working out for me. Does anyone know what would cause my SD chart to look so choppy?

 

[snowborder714]

Something just looks funny about that SD table and how your VE decreases. I don't think that's a good thing, but it's something I've never seen before. Your AFRatioEst and LC-1 lines line up pretty well, so I'm not sure what to make of this. Only thing I can think are your fuel settings are off.

I'm going to send it to Craig and have him take a look and give some input.

 

[95tsiawd0330]

Something just looks funny about that SD table and how your VE decreases. I don't think that's a good thing, but it's something I've never seen before. Your AFRatioEst and LC-1 lines line up pretty well, so I'm not sure what to make of this. Only thing I can think are your fuel settings are off.

I'm going to send it to Craig and have him take a look and give some input.

I though the same thing but the fuel settings that i am using now are from tom, I sent my injectors to him to get tested and i used all of his settings that he suggested, but i will say that the car never ran as good as the way it is running now, and i am not in the high 1 hundreds on the sd chart like how it was before.... Plus my airflow is 55ib/min at 25psi. And by the way thanks brian for helping me out.

 

[Calan]

It looks like something strange is going on with the fuel flow.... but even that doesn't make a lot of sense because it actually seems to be flowing too much fuel in that one area, and having to pull a lot of VE correction to lean it out. If the deadtime was way out of whack, then the upper left VE numbers would be much lower...but they look about right.

The only other thing I can think of is that maybe the MAP sensor is not reading correctly, and is over-estimating airflow in that one area. The Omni4bar compared to BoostEst is way out in left field, but that doesn't mean a whole lot.

Is it normal for that turbo to spool that late? You could be losing a lot of air somewhere after the MAP sensor, during that part of the log.

I'm a bit lost on this one. Maybe Tom can jump in here and enlighten us.

 

[95tsiawd0330]

It looks like something strange is going on with the fuel flow.... but even that doesn't make a lot of sense because it actually seems to be flowing too much fuel in that one area, and having to pull a lot of VE correction to lean it out. If the deadtime was way out of whack, then the upper left VE numbers would be much lower...but they look about right.

The only other thing I can think of is that maybe the MAP sensor is not reading correctly, and is over-estimating airflow in that one area. The Omni4bar compared to BoostEst is way out in left field, but that doesn't mean a whole lot.

Is it normal for that turbo to spool that late? You could be losing a lot of air somewhere after the MAP sensor, during that part of the log.

I'm a bit lost on this one. Maybe Tom can jump in here and enlighten us.

I am lose to but i sent an email to tom earlier and he said to me: SD VE at WOT seems too low to me. Since LinkTools just adjusts the SD VE table to
get measured WB to match estimated, I assume that means you were
originally running a good bit richer than target. So it lowered SD VE
to get a leaner mixture.

But since SD VE is now a good bit lower than I would expect a reasonably
well setup car to be, I have to think that maybe the problem was really
a global fuel setting that was too rich instead.

And the idle fluctuation seems related to mixture swing. The mixture is
supposed to oscillate during closed loop mode, of course, but yours
seems to be oscillating a little *too* lean, causing some engine speed
oscillation as well.

Try slowing down the lean swing by going into the "STFTAndO2Feedback"
tables and reducing the "down" numbers. Maybe try cutting them all in
half and see if that improves the idle oscillation..l..........

Here is the 2 other logs i am going to put them in order from when i started to do WOT pulls and using linktools to calculate. So you can see how the sd cells were going down as i used linktolls to calculate my cells for each WOT pull that i did, maybe i was calculating it to much, Is that possible??????????

 

[Calan]

Other than the strange VE table values (and you are still running rich), the only thing that jumps out at me is your battery voltage. You are dropping to 13.0 or maybe even into the 12's at times. Once battery voltage is dropping below 13.5v at WOT, I recommend replacing/upgrading your charging system.

Have you done a compression and leak-down test lately?

 

[95tsiawd0330]

I am having a problem with my AFR at WOT.When i get to around 20 pounds boost my AFR goes to 9.5 afr TO RICH.Now i have pte 880cc set to 840s 46.5 combined stays around 0 and airflowperrev is at 25 at idle and i also had the injectors tested so i can set injbattadj,individual dead time for each injectors and when i do a pull with the values i still get around 9.5 afr.Now If i set the injbattadj back to stock value and zero out individual dead time and set injectors global to -46.5 for 840s and deadtime at 255 i still get around 9.5 afr.Now if i set my global for 950cc i can get my AFR to be around 10.8 .Just to let everyone know am on sd.Also when i do a pull my boostest will say like 37psi est making me be at the very bottom on the timmax table/maxoct table and i know that's not right because am just boosting at 25psi.Has anyone ever had to make there global more higher then what it is supposed to be at.log 10.28 is with injbattadj values that i got back from having my injectors bench tested and log 10.29 is with stock injbattadj back to stock and global set for my injectors.Also take a look at were am at on timmax/maxoct when am at the end of the pull you will notice that am at the very bottom of the chart when am only at 25 psiand i did a BLT and had no leaks and the car runs great even when i do the pull its strong.I also replaced the wide band 02 sensor thinking it was reading wrong but that did nothing

WOW no reply's yet why cant i have one thread that has alot of reply's

 

[snowborder714]

Post a log. It'll tell us what's going on better than you can.

 

[My1GLaser]

post a log

ninja edit: ^^ he beat me to it.

 

[95tsiawd0330]

I have been having a problem with WOT being to rich like 9.5 AFR.so i been trying everything i can to try and fix it i even posted a thread (Need help with WOT) and have not had any luck on reply's so hopefully someone can answer this for me.Is there a way i can go back to my old firmware 3.20.245 i know it sounds crazy but at this point am willing to try anything right about now.I just never had this problem until i up dated my firmware.please SOMEONE HELP ME OUT.

 

[Calan]

I've never heard of anyone wanting to do this, but it's highly unlikely that it would cause a problem with AFRs.

As for your other thread, I couldn't really understand what you wrote, and there were no logs to review. There was also no response to this:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/log-file-advice/443164-please-read-before-you-ask-log-advice.html


EDIT:

Actually, you have three concurrent threads going on the same issue. I am going to merge these; please don't start another thread on this same VE issue that you are currently having.

See my response below.

 

[Calan]

What is your motor's displacement ?

Unless you are doing something really different, you need to set the correct engine displacement value in the upper left of the VE page. That is what is causing your VE table to not be indexed correctly.

WOW no reply's yet why cant i have one thread that has alot of reply's

Most people that browse these forums will see something like your post above (post #7; run-on sentences, no paragraphs, hard to read) and just move on. Try to make your posts a bit more readable and easier to understand, and you will get more responses.

 

[95tsiawd0330]

What is your motor's displacement ?

Unless you are doing something really different, you need to set the correct engine displacement value in the upper left of the VE page. That is what is causing your VE table to not be indexed correctly.



Most people that browse these forums will see something like your post above (post #7; run-on sentences, no paragraphs, hard to read) and just move on. Try to make your posts a bit more readable and easier to understand, and you will get more responses.

My motor displacement for my car is set at 2.0, and that is what i have set for my VE chart.

And the values that i have set for my injbattadj are values that i got back from tom when he did a bench test on my injectors.

Now when i first put those values in and i started the log for the first time my combindft was reading at + 16%, and my airflowperrev was at 31 to 32, so to get things down to where they should be I had to lower my SD cell to 43, and i had to add 205 to my deadtime. Maybe this info can help out a little?

Also in my log that i posted earlier log "10.29", I put the injbattadj values back to stock and I set my global fuel for my pte 880cc at -46.5, because i read that they flow around 830/840cc and i still was running very rich. Just to let you know i have a walbro 255 and an aeromotive FPR set at 43ish psi.

Today I was reading HOW TO TUNE 1G WITH NO MAF ON SD, and where he was talking about load scale, he says to leave load scale at 114.8. Now when i looked at my load scale it was set at 100%. Now would this make me run so rich, making my sd chart really crazy?

As for a compression test and leak down test, Yes i have done a compression test and i got 178psi across all 4 cylinders. And no i haven't gotten around to doing a leak down test because i just don't have the stuff to test it with right now.

 

[Calan]

my motor displacement for my car is a 2.0 and that is what i have set for my VE chart.

No, it's not. At least not in the logs you've been posting.

 

[snowborder714]

Leave load scale at 100%. That article is a bit old and when it used to be at 114% because of some firmware discrepancies.

 

[95tsiawd0330]

No, it's not. At least not in the logs you've been posting.

calan you are so right i swear i had that set for a 2.0. I just went through my logs that I had before I did the firmware update and it was set for 2.0. It must have changed when i would carry my laptop out to the car with the mouse still connected. So i had to have been pushing the mouse buttons . Calan thanks for pointing that out

brain thanks for your reply on my load scale question!

I am going to load the default SD chart back in with the values that i have from tom and change the engine displacement back to 2.0 .......... And i will post a log with new changes is that OK? Thanks guys

Sorry guy's that my grammar and spelling are off am just not good at typing and explaining things on the computer. I will try my best to not violate the site rules.

EDIT: 6:40pm 10/30/12


OK so today I went out to my car and changed my motor displacement to 2.0, Then I put the suggested values that tom came up with when he did a bench test on my injectors, Also I had to add 190 to my deadtime. I Reloaded the evo8 mod1 map and started fresh on my SD chart, then i reset my fuel trim.

So my first log is with my car warming up at a idle, The second log is with me driving the car around the block.

Log 10.30.01 is my car at idle.
Log 10.30.02 is me driving my car around the block.

WHAT MY CAR IS DOING: When I am pulling away the car goes lean for a second or two and also shifting through gears, Also the car feels a little sluggish until my AFR gets down to the 14s.

My questions are:
1.) what will cause my AFR to go lean then to normal?
2.)Can my lean issue be caused by not doing a 20min cruise log so i can get the suggested values made from ecmlink for my sd chart?

 

[Calan]

Just got in, but I'll take a look at the logs in the morning.

To answer question #2 specifically, absolutely. The VE table won't be accurate until you do some calibration on the values in it. You don't need a 20 minute log though; just a few minutes of driving at different RPM and loads, with the car warmed up.

 

[95tsiawd0330]

Just got in, but I'll take a look at the logs in the morning.

To answer question #2 specifically, absolutely. The VE table won't be accurate until you do some calibration on the values in it. You don't need a 20 minute log though; just a few minutes of driving at different RPM and loads, with the car warmed up.

Ok i don't understand why the hell i cant get my SD chart right, I'am doing everything that i am supposed to do. I have my idle dialed in i even have the values for injbattyadj and individual deadtime for each injectors set how they should be, I even did 4 cruise logs to set my SD chart before doing WOT pulls.

I did a WOT and in the middle of the pull it starts to go lean than come back down in the AFRs here is the log, (the pull is at 450.780 secs

Calan, can you give me some advice on what i should do? I'am really trying to learn how to tune and i have the idea how to do it I'am just stuck right now and really getting tired of it, i have been at it since February and even payed someone $300 to help do a remote tune and didn't get anything out of it

EDIT:11/3/12 3:20am

Never mind I see why I am going lean in the middle of the pull. It's because in the beginning of the pull my SD cells start at 92 and below that the SD cells are at 87 causing the ecu into thinking there is less air being sucked in to the motor making the injectors to spray less fuel.but in order to get ridd of the lean spot i have to raise my SD cells around 110. So that is telling me that my global is not set right. I just don't understand why i cant get my global set right i have tryed every suggested global setting appropriate for my pte 880cc

 

[Calan]

What fuel are you running? How are you setting/verifying base fuel pressure?

Also, please post up the numbers that Tom gave you for your injectors.

Also I had to add 190 to my deadtime.

Why? Set the global DT to 0, and use the numbers Tom gave you in the InjBatteryAdj table. Also, your battery voltage is still low at WOT, flirting with getting into the 12's.

 

[95tsiawd0330]

What fuel are you running? How are you setting/verifying base fuel pressure?

Also, please post up the numbers that Tom gave you for your injectors.



Why? Set the global DT to 0, and use the numbers Tom gave you in the InjBatteryAdj table. Also, your battery voltage is still low at WOT, flirting with getting into the 12's.

I'am running 93oct

Also setting fuel psi with gauge on FPR, Also checked with snap on fuel pressure tester

and the injbattyadj numbers are as followed
7v 2295
9v 1597
12v 995
14v 765
16v 612
19v 551
also tom said to set global to 0 and when i set global to zero my combindFT reads 16%

And as far as the volts go i will be replacing the alternator and see what happens with the volts from there.here are the values from tom for the injectors

 

[Calan]

I'am running 93oct

Pure gasoline, or 10% ethanol?

when i set global to zero my combindFT reads 16%

That is probably due to the airflow not being calibrated.

Since you have known values for your injectors, stick with those (global DT at 0). Then use the VE table (combinedFT tool) to get the trims dialed in closer to 0.

What kind of PCV setup are you running, and where is your MAP sensor sourced from?

 

[95tsiawd0330]

Pure gasoline, or 10% ethanol?



That is probably due to the airflow not being calibrated.

Since you have known values for your injectors, stick with those (global DT at 0). Then use the VE table (combinedFT tool) to get the trims dialed in closer to 0.

What kind of PCV setup are you running, and where is your MAP sensor sourced from?

yes up to 10% ethanol

so are you saying to use toms values than adjust airflowperrev to log at 25 with SD cell than go do a cruise no matter if my combindFT is reading 16% ?

my PCV setup is stock and just noticed it is sucking oil into the intake but i wanted to ask you if you are still selling the famous calan oil catch can if so how much do you sell them for?

as for the MAP i have a tapped screw in fitting on the intake with no more then 8 inchs of vacum line

 

[Calan]

yes up to 10% ethanol

That will change your global fuel value a little.

so are you saying to use toms values than adjust airflowperrev to log at 25 with SD cell than go do a cruise no matter if my combindFT is reading 16% ?

No. I'm saying to use Tom's values and ignore AirFlowPerRev for now, and adjust the VE table to get CombinedFT closer to 0.

People get too hung up on AirFlowPerRev. You have to find a balance between deadtime and airflow calibration, that gives you low fuel trims and a decent AirFlowPerRev value. Once you get CombinedFT within a few percent of zero, you can start fine tuning the DT if needed; but at first you need to get airflow calibration in the ball park.

i wanted to ask you if you are still selling the famous calan oil catch can if so how much do you sell them for?

PM me for this info.

 

[95tsiawd0330]

That will change your global fuel value a little.



No. I'm saying to use Tom's values and ignore AirFlowPerRev for now, and adjust the VE table to get CombinedFT closer to 0.

People get too hung up on AirFlowPerRev. You have to find a balance between deadtime and airflow calibration, that gives you low fuel trims and a decent AirFlowPerRev value. Once you get CombinedFT within a few percent of zero, you can start fine tuning the DT if needed; but at first you need to get airflow calibration in the ball park.



PM me for this info.

i just PM you
ok i just used link tools fuel mix calculater and it says my stoich ratio is 14.08 with 93oct and 10% ethanol, now i want ahead and used ecmlink global fuel calculater and changed my injector size to 840s, for pte 880 base fuel psi to 43psi stoichiometic ratio to 14.08 and now it says that i should set my global to 44.1.Do i have the right idea on figuring out where i should start on my global

or should i just leave the global value that tom suggested for global fuel and worrie about my global after i get my airflow calibrated?

 

[Calan]

I get -46.9 for 880's at 43 psi and a stoich value of 14.08.... which is exactly what your log is set to. So, I would just leave it.