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Archer Fabrications

10+ Year Contributor
9,719
705
May 9, 2011
Scottsdale, Arizona
Hey guys, i made a similar thread on the link forums but no one was really responding there. so here it goes. i have been messing with my VE table trying to get my AFR's in line with the AFR EST. im not looking to touch timing right now, i have tried the evo 8 mod 1 and got knock, and right now im bumping it up slowly from what my tuner put in some of you call it "fubar" but i want to focus on everything else and have timing be my last focus.

Here are a few logs of 1st 2nd 3rd gear pulls yesterday and then the one labeled "Pulls" is a 3rd gear. i noticed that the AFR starts to lean out toward the end and I've gotten to the point at some places in my VE table are at 100.5 VE. I just need advice on if there is anything anyone believes i could change to make the fuel trims more stable and the boost est matching the MAP. i have also been playing with the Base tip-in and haven't really noticed a difference when i step on it hard; still goes lean. if someone could check out my VE table, and fuel settings id greatly appreciate it.:D


The last VE log that i put in the .ecm log, is the VE map after corrections I've made that i will load to the car again soon as i can. I am using calans link tools for smoothing out the table with the 3D graph. but haven't been able to load a full log in it, getting some sort of error.:hmm:
 

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I haven't been on here much lately... . But just happen to see this.. I'm On my phone so I can't see the logs right now but...

Honestly did you ever address and understand fully why we said what we did about the timing... ?

I maybe wrong.. But, till you can come back saying that you have addressed everything that was previously mentioned and off the - negative timing maps I don't see you getting very far you had plenty of suggestions before and I don't think they will change much from what they were before...

Like I said in your other thread Reread what has already been said...

Without looking at the log Im willing to bet that your lean tip in is still a result of your huge timing drop as it was before...

Your failing to understand the reasoning behind what people are saying and in turn not doing what the solution to part of your problem is...

As far as your VE Map I explained in detail exactly what to do before and you still asked how?

Idk... all the advice in the world isn't going to do any good if you don't fallow it...
 
I haven't been on here much lately... . But just happen to see this.. I'm On my phone so I can't see the logs right now but...

Honestly did you ever address and understand fully why we said what we did about the timing... ?

I maybe wrong.. But, till you can come back saying that you have addressed everything that was previously mentioned and off the - negative timing maps I don't see you getting very far you had plenty of suggestions before and I don't think they will change much from what they were before...

Like I said in your other thread Reread what has already been said...

Without looking at the log Im willing to bet that your lean tip in is still a result of your huge timing drop as it was before...

Your failing to understand the reasoning behind what people are saying and in turn not doing what the solution to part of your problem is...

As far as your VE Map I explained in detail exactly what to do before and you still asked how?

Idk... all the advice in the world isn't going to do any good if you don't fallow it...


dude i've made adjustments since then. i told you im not focusing on timing til i get everything else lined up. I have bumped up the timing 2 degrees since the last log.. and when i set the target timing to -3 degrees i got knock in 3rd and 4th.. hitting a +2* i have 5* advance so that was a total of 7* and got knock. so yes i am set at -5 hitting a -3.8 plus base timing. i have re-read and have changed things since then. look at the log before you comment. I'm trying to get my air flow in line FIRST and i have re read the other thread, I'm not asking HOW to do it I'm asking how my CHANGES look. but thanks for your optimism
 
Wow.... you need to get some timing into that engine before you burn up exhaust valves. It isn't safe to have that kind of timing. Go back to that mod1 evo map and take out a few degrees from half map down past 3500 and that should be conservative enough for you to not have to worry about knock, but not burn down your exhaust valves.

As far as your fueling issues. You need to add global fuel by inputting a smaller injector size. I'd try like 880. Then if you have issues going rich at idle (Combined FT going negative) Take some deadtime out. You are overestimating by ~psi on top. I know your just trying to enrich your too so you can meet your target of 10.5, but if you have to overestimate that much you need to add global fuel.

Do you get real bad bucking at low rpms/low throttle? Your VE table doesn't look good in the vacuum/idle areas. You need to do some smoothing to your VE cells. There's a tool in link that will interpolate the cells for you. All you have to do is highlight an area and right click. It will bring up an option in the list to linear interpolate. However before you even do that I would smooth in areas around cells that are way different from neighboring cells. An example is around the 5.5/1500 rpm cell. It has up to a 12.5 percent jump to its neighboring cells.
 
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Wow.... you need to get some timing into that engine before you burn up exhaust valves. It isn't safe to have that kind of timing. Go back to that mod1 evo map and take out a few degrees from half map down past 3500 and that should be conservative enough for you to not have to worry about knock, but not burn down your exhaust valves.

As far as your fueling issues. You need to add global fuel by inputting a smaller injector size. I'd try like 880. Then if you have issues going rich at idle (Combined FT going negative) Take some deadtime out. You are overestimating by ~psi on top. I know your just trying to enrich your too so you can meet your target of 10.5, but if you have to overestimate that much you need to add global fuel.

Thank you very much for your input. Im using PTE's 6152RS which blows alot of cold air compared to a smaller turbo my coolant temps never reach over 200 and my IATs are always at 60s* i don't have an exhaust temp gauge but this turbo blows alot of cold air and i dont see any knock with that low of timing, I'm not too worried about the exhaust valves. I bump it up a degree or 2 and see how it goes if i get knock i back it off. I guess i can try your suggestion modifying the evo mod 1 map like that; but i guarantee even if i take out a few degrees ill still knock. Im on pump gas 92 with no methanol at 24psi flowing only about 40LB/min on that low of boost. ill bump up global and see how things look my LTFT was pretty close to 0 and same with the COMBFTs already.

Do you get real bad bucking at low rpms/low throttle? Your VE table doesn't look good in the vacuum/idle areas. You need to do some smoothing to your VE cells. There's a tool in link that will interpolate the cells for you. All you have to do is highlight an area. However before you even do that I would smooth in areas around cells that are way different from neighboring cells.

i know how to use the COMBFT adjustment and track log. i do NOT get any bucking at all... the lower areas in VE has not been an issue for me so far. are you referring to the cells of 1500 to 2500RPM and 0-9.2 load? the combFT tool actually adjusted that part and i havent yet smoothed that part out yet
 
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dude i've made adjustments since then. i told you im not focusing on timing til i get everything else lined up. I have bumped up the timing 2 degrees since the last log.. and when i set the target timing to -3 degrees i got knock in 3rd and 4th.. hitting a +2* i have 5* advance so that was a total of 7* and got knock. so yes i am set at -5 hitting a -3.8 plus base timing. i have re-read and have changed things since then. look at the log before you comment. I'm trying to get my air flow in line FIRST and i have re read the other thread, I'm not asking HOW to do it I'm asking how my CHANGES look. but thanks for your optimism

Took a quick look...

My suggestions didn't change and based of that response you either didn't reread the thread or are still not understanding what is at work here and why you don't want the timing like that... .

Aside from the fact that your ignition event is happening basically in the exhaust manifold you do realize that if your not compensating for some severely advanced base timing that once you ever do get so timing to the motor that your AFR's are more then likely not going to be in line anymore?

Also What are you talking about you have 5* advance or your reasoning to think that if the map is set to -5 your going to end up at 0*?

You even sure the the base timing is set right to begin with? Never got a answer to that in the other thread IIRC... .

If anyone is looking to help for reference here is the other Thread

Oh also are you sure you have you linwideband setup correctly? and that it is in-fact Exactly as the gauge reads...

FYI Timing isn't the only thing that can cause knock or other noises.
 
If you have knock with that timing map after you took out some timing look at the path through the cells by tracking the datalog. All you have to do is click the track datalog tab on the timing map. I was having problems with knock on my car, but I realized that my timing map wasn't smooth enough. Any jump of more than about 2-3 degrees is bad.
 
What are you guys hittin for max timing at full boost? I sai id give the degraded mod1 map a try. And my builder set base timing to 5* advance i believe i have said that. Let me change my global take a pull, adjust ve to compinsate then ill load the mod1 map from about 3500 and 1.2 load on ill take it down 3 degrees sound good?

oh, and my1gdsm; if you look at the "from a dig 2 step" log timing table. It's quite a bit more advanced then what was in the other thread..

you suggest running something like this? like i said i took out 3* from 3500 down and over to the right starting at 1.2load. hows that look? havent loaded it to the car obviously but even doing that it doesnt look like a smooth table.

also, my1gdsm, the base timing could just be 5* and not advanced 5* cause isnt stock actually 5* base? i may just be confused about that. all i know is i did a few pulls yesterday with a buddy with the same timing that is in the "from a dig" log and was getting 1.8 degrees of knock in 4th.

no i personally havent put a timing light on it cause i dont have one. i ground the timing connector in link and i show a steady 5* base
 

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What are you guys hittin for max timing at full boost? I sai id give the degraded mod1 map a try. And my builder set base timing to 5* advance i believe i have said that. Let me change my global take a pull, adjust ve to compinsate then ill load the mod1 map from about 3500 and 1.2 load on ill take it down 3 degrees sound good?

oh, and my1gdsm; if you look at the "pulls" log timing table. It's quite a bit more advanced then what was in the other thread..

So you never did check it yourself?

I'll just quote what Glen and I said to you about 2 months ago again... .

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/152905935-post72.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/152905969-post78.html


oh, and my1gdsm; if you look at the "pulls" log timing table. It's quite a bit more advanced then what was in the other thread..

Doesn't matter what the log is saying...

You still have this map loaded and never addressed what was asked of you... .

Good luck with the car hope you can at some point heed the advice that has been givin.... .
 

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So you never did check it yourself?

I'll just quote what Glen and I said to you about 2 months ago again... .

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/152905935-post72.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/152905969-post78.html




Doesn't matter what the log is saying...

You still have this map loaded and never addressed what was asked of you... .

Good luck with the car hope you can at some point heed the advice that has been givin.... .

look at the from a dig log... and look at the timing DA it was at -8 now its at -3 so i have done some adjusting man.. your kinda being a douche IMO. your off topic from my origional post where i said i wasnt asking for advice about timing right now, i wanted to get other things in line first. so far theecman is been most helpful in THIS thread. you gave alot of good information in the other thread.. but my settings ARE infact different then what they were back then.

i went from a -8 to a -3 i think thats quite a large change from what i was at!

is this what you would like to see?

this thread is different because: i am running more boost, i am running more inline AFRS and have adjusted the VE table and have added 6 degrees timing since the other thread.
 

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My max timing at full boost 30psi at 7500 rpm is 14 degrees on pump. This is just about the right timing. At max torque ~4500 rpm at 30 psi I have around 5-6 degrees. This is on 93 octane gas on a 2.3L stroker w/9:1 compression. I had issues where I was getting bad knock even on e85 with more conservative timing only to notice that the car did not like 3* timing jumps in between cells while in the spool up/ full boost regions.

The above timing map doesn't look too bad. There's a 4 degree jump at 6500-7000 at the 2.0 load cell. Also there's a nasty jump below the 2.0 load cell to. I would add a degree in the 6500 column and smooth out the cells to the left of it so that there is a max of 2 degree jumps.
I would extend the 2 degree advance on the 3500-4000 at the 2.4 load cell down, but you probably won't even be in that range on low boost.
 
My max timing at full boost 30psi at 7500 rpm is 14 degrees on pump. This is just about the right timing. At max torque ~4500 rpm at 30 psi I have around 5-6 degrees. This is on 93 octane gas on a 2.3L stroker w/9:1 compression. I had issues where I was getting bad knock even on e85 with more conservative timing only to notice that the car did not like 3* timing jumps in between cells while in the spool up/ full boost regions.

wow that seems like alot to me. What turbo are you running? It's interesting that you should have it dip low at spool then slowly rise again when your boost is steady. i would have thought it should be flat at full boost? or are you flat at 14* til you let off the gas

alright, so ill load that map^ up there and get my global like 1 or 1.5% towards positive so ill prob be sitting at a 50% global (doesn't this seem weird for PTE 1000's?) adjust the VE table depending on the pull and post log up. and my1gdsm i have a buddy with a timing light i just found out yesterday ill get on that just for you and let you know. although i think it'll say the same thing link says. 5*
 
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It seems a bit wierd, but the fuel pressure gauge you have might be reading higher than what the actual fuel pressure is which would cause you to get a lower flow out of your injectors. I was in that boat with my car.

My timing advance slowly ramps up from peak torque. I'm running a borg warner s259 that is ~65lb/min turbo. When I hit full spool I'm usually around 4-5 degrees timing and then ramp up 1-2 degrees per 500-1000 rpm till 14-16 degrees on top. The timing advance needs to slowly increase as the motor turns faster so the combustion process has enough time to complete. When the motor is spinning faster the combustion has to be started earlier because the combustion isn't going to happen any faster.


In this picture I added a line of approximately where 20ish PSI would lie on the timing map. I don't know exactly where your full spool is because I haven't examined your setup and logs that closely but this drawing will give you an idea on the timing path your car follows. If you are at full spool by 3500rpm you'll be around 4-5 degrees of timing. You'll follow that line to the right as long as your not making anymore boost/increasing the load on the engine. If you are on that line during your pull I'd almost guarantee you'd get some knock around the 6500rpm area because of the nasty timing increase step. That is why on the post above I mentioned that that area needed to be smooth out, and you might want to decrease the timing "up top" meaning around the 7000rpm area. Just know that as you increase boost the path your timing map will follow will go farther down the map into the higher load range. As you add load to the engine it won't need as much timing to ignite the mixture in the cylinders which is why the timing maps trend towards a lower timing. I'm sorry if this sounds like I'm talking down, I'm just trying to explain what your engine is seeing during a pull.
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If you can get your car to follow the full map in your direct access you won't have as much knock problems either. If your mixture is too lean it has a tendency to ignite/or preignite (knock) quicker. Tuning is something where everything has to be taken into account. You can't completely just focus on one thing at a time which is why many people in other posts were getting frustrated with you not taking their advice. The timing map was so far off that it was making your life miserable to try and tune. With a known safe/conservative map the fueling can be addressed properly.
 

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It seems a bit wierd, but the fuel pressure gauge you have might be reading higher than what the actual fuel pressure is which would cause you to get a lower flow out of your injectors. I was in that boat with my car.

My timing advance slowly ramps up from peak torque. I'm running a borg warner s259 that is ~65lb/min turbo. When I hit full spool I'm usually around 4-5 degrees timing and then ramp up 1-2 degrees per 500-1000 rpm till 14-16 degrees on top. The timing advance needs to slowly increase as the motor turns faster so the combustion process has enough time to complete. When the motor is spinning faster the combustion has to be started earlier because the combustion isn't going to happen any faster.

how do you know when you hit peak torque? or is that just when your boost flatlines then from there you ramp it up 1-2 degrees every 500-1000?
 
Where you first get full boost/boost flat line is usually a fair spot to assume. Usually where ever you get full boost is the spot where the engine likes the least amount of timing. This is usually because the engine is turning relatively slow.

You can log torque and horsepower of your car in link. It will estimate based on how fast your accelerating/ how much your vehicle weights. Its accuracy depends on many things, but even if the values are off the general location where it shows your torque and overall curve should be about right. I believe if you do a search you can find instructions on how to setup that feature if you don't already have it on.

I think once you get the timing right and your fuel spot on your going to be very happy with your car. If you can't figure out the tune I think english racing is close by.
 
Where you first get full boost/boost flat line is usually a fair spot to assume. Usually where ever you get full boost is the spot where the engine likes the least amount of timing. This is usually because the engine is turning relatively slow.

You can log torque and horsepower of your car in link. It will estimate based on how fast your accelerating/ how much your vehicle weights. Its accuracy depends on many things, but even if the values are off the general location where it shows your torque and overall curve should be about right. I believe if you do a search you can find instructions on how to setup that feature if you don't already have it on.

Im already logging both, but i figured it to be most inaccurate when i showed 40lb/min and 300hp... and then as soon as i left off the gas i hit 2000HP... pretty sweet if that was true LOL but the HP and torque numbers vary too much for me to trust..

so as soon as boost hits peak lower the timing a few degrees then right where it flatlines start upping a few degrees?
 
The horsepower during the pull seemed pretty accurate. If you had real timing during those pulls you could have easily gained 100hp.
 
In this picture I added a line of approximately where 20ish PSI would lie on the timing map. I don't know exactly where your full spool is because I haven't examined your setup and logs that closely but this drawing will give you an idea on the timing path your car follows. If you are at full spool by 3500rpm you'll be around 4-5 degrees of timing. You'll follow that line to the right as long as your not making anymore boost/increasing the load on the engine. If you are on that line during your pull I'd almost guarantee you'd get some knock around the 6500rpm area because of the nasty timing increase step. That is why on the post above I mentioned that that area needed to be smooth out, and you might want to decrease the timing "up top" meaning around the 7000rpm area. Just know that as you increase boost the path your timing map will follow will go farther down the map into the higher load range. As you add load to the engine it won't need as much timing to ignite the mixture in the cylinders which is why the timing maps trend towards a lower timing. I'm sorry if this sounds like I'm talking down, I'm just trying to explain what your engine is seeing during a pull.
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If you can get your car to follow the full map in your direct access you won't have as much knock problems either. If your mixture is too lean it has a tendency to ignite/or preignite (knock) quicker. Tuning is something where everything has to be taken into account. You can't completely just focus on one thing at a time which is why many people in other posts were getting frustrated with you not taking their advice. The timing map was so far off that it was making your life miserable to try and tune. With a known safe/conservative map the fueling can be addressed properly.

I hit full boost at about 4k4500ish and ride it steady to red line maxing up to 24psi ill smooth it out and post another pic let me know if that seems smooth enough.

I guess i could just copy the min oct table for timing to the max and use that also. Quite a bit more conservative. Let me know how this looks. I have my rev limit at 7k right now so i'm not going past that and i hit full boost as said above.. load i don't think i see more then 2.6 load
 

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I got 20 counts of knock 7.8 degrees.... I knew it would knock post a log when im home. It was the same reault as last time when i tried running that timing and im gonna blow my shit if i keep testing out these so called conservative maps, can someone look at the log later an let me know what went wrong? My afrs were good
 
Put timi back to -5 an had nothing but clean pulls and i can post those as well dirin my 3rd gear pull i was hitting a -4.8 if you want to compare. I just dont understand why im knocking so much on this map, so far
My only success is -5* wot.

first is with pulls from table above, 2nd is back with my -5* you can compare the both i only get clean pulls on low timing! i dont get it!

here is the most advance i can get without getting knock.. i did one more degree then i currently have and got 1 degree of knock so i think im stuck where im at....
 

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look at the from a dig log... and look at the timing DA it was at -8 now its at -3 so i have done some adjusting man.. your kinda being a douche IMO. your off topic from my origional post where i said i wasnt asking for advice about timing right now, i wanted to get other things in line first. so far theecman is been most helpful in THIS thread. you gave alot of good information in the other thread.. but my settings ARE infact different then what they were back then.

i went from a -8 to a -3 i think thats quite a large change from what i was at!

is this what you would like to see?

this thread is different because: i am running more boost, i am running more inline AFRS and have adjusted the VE table and have added 6 degrees timing since the other thread.

Your still on negative timing...

You never addressed the issues as people suggested and that plain and simple is the reason you have not made any progress in the last 2 months.

Who cares who "helps" you if don't fallow threw and do what is suggested??? as me and glen said in the other thread over and over maybe click on those links I posted and think hard on that for a min... . Everyone can sit here and expline to you want to do but every time your respond you only make it that much clear that you don't understand why your being told these things or how to apply what your told...

Just because you say in the beginning of the thread some BS about I don't want to address my timing doesn't make it still an issue.

I'm in NO way of topic you never even checked your timing after months of being told? FYI ECMlink is always going to say 5* when setting your timing whether it's 5* or -10 * advanced 10*... .

So you've made some small changes it doesn't change the fact that everything said in the other thread is still valid and needs to be addressed... Calling people names doesn't do anything but make people not help and make you sound like your ignorant... I suggest you take the time to DO WHAT HAS ALREADY BEEN SAID... I have nothing to add and have lost any interest in helping you. opinions are like.... Well ya... .

Problem is Your not willing to even help yourself... . Your just waiting to be told what you want to hear and do not fallow anything else that you don't feel is valid. About 90% of the time I've seen you say things were "good" they in fact where not... as I said above timing isn't the only factor and as Iceman has broght up drastic changes in timing can alone triger "knock" or cretin noises from various things taking place...

If you had Clearly Read Re-read and done everything in your power to take in the info in your other thread you would already be aware of this.

As I said before I hope at some point that you heed the advice you already have been giving and address your issues property from the get go...



Good day ;)

Edit:

You do realize you pig rich(that is if the wideband reading is even right) and not "good" as I said before you added the logs... Though things have improved a little bit. But there is still a great deal of things at work here that your not grasping... .

I don't mean to have you think I'm putting you down or hating on you just stating that after being given as much info as you have and not applying it I would suggest you have someone professionally tune it and not let who ever touched it to begin with. Get their hands on it again... .
 
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Your still on negative timing...

You never addressed the issues as people suggested and that plain and simple is the reason you have not made any progress in the last 2 months.

Who cares who "helps" you if don't fallow threw and do what is suggested??? as me and glen said in the other thread over and over maybe click on those links I posted and think hard on that for a min.. Everyone can sit here and expline to you want to do but every time your respond you only make it that much clear that you don't understand why your being told these things or how to apply what your told...

Just because you say in the beginning of the thread some BS about I don't want to address my timing doesn't make it still an issue.

I'm in NO way of topic you never even checked your timing after months of being told? FYI ECMlink is always going to say 5* when setting your timing whether it's 5* or -10 * advanced 10*... .

So you've made some small changes it doesn't change the fact that everything said in the other thread is still valid and needs to be addressed... Calling people names doesn't do anything but make people not help and make you sound like your ignorant... I suggest you take the time to DO WHAT HAS ALREADY BEEN SAID... I have nothing to add and have lost any interest in helping you. opinions are like.... Well ya... .

Problem is Your not willing to even help yourself... . Your just waiting to be told what you want to hear and do not fallow anything else that you don't feel is valid. About 90% of the time I've seen you say things were "good" they in fact where not... as I said above timing isn't the only factor and as Iceman has broght up drastic changes in timing can alone triger "knock" or cretin noises from various things taking place...

If you had Clearly Read Re-read and done everything in your power to take in the info in your other thread you would already be aware of this.

As I said before I hope at some point that you heed the advice you already have been giving and address your issues property from the get go...



Good day ;)

Edit:

You do realize you pig rich(that is if the wideband reading is even right) and not "good" as I said before you added the logs... Though things have improved a little bit. But there is still a great deal of things at work here that your not grasping... .

I don't mean to have you think I'm putting you down or hating on you just stating that after being given as much info as you have and not applying it I would suggest you have someone professionally tune it and not let who ever touched it to begin with. Get there hands on it again... .

i am willing to help myself! i checked the timing today with a light and its 5 degrees....i have tried things that changed. i have loaded glens map, i have loaded evo maps, i have taken timing out of those, and every time i get knock! So i HAVE to go back to negative timing.. i'm not trying to blow my motor i am willing to change things its that every time i do change something to what has been suggested in terms of timing i just get knock. look at the last log i posted that was the HIGHEST timing i could run without getting ANY knock. i did one degree above that and STILL got it. So no i'm not asking for help and not taking the advice. I am in fact taking everything and trying it out but just haven't been getting good results with timing only. The parts of fuel and calibration i did need with the other threads suggestion; and i have adjusted stuff and made things feel alot better and look alot better in the logs (fuel trims).. my only issue is the timing because i simply cant run more then that last log without getting knock. so if you wanna tell me what you would do now if you were in my situation getting knock at -3 degrees then tell me what you would do.

Edit: and yes i know im pig rich im trying to fix that in the VE table right now as i type, i just had to richen up the global so i didn't have VE around 100% and my wide band should be correct, it matched the raw volts comming in.

Edit: MOTHER Fu(ker my WB is off :( by like .5
 

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Your fuel was so far off on that pull with the timing map you were working on. 9.6? How did the car feel as it was spooling during that pull? You need Get the AFR's atleast in the 10.5-11 range. Make sure the captured wideband value is matching the gauge. Your VE on all your pulls are overestimating boost which will make you run rich. The bump in global fuel helped get you out of the lean 11.5ish area you were before. Making the VE percentages lower should get you matched up to what you are targeting and ideally your boost estimate will match your Boost gauge.

When your tuning your car if you see your fueling is that messed up I would stop the pull and look at the log and fix issues like that. You need to be on a realistic timing map though. If you would have stopped during that pull when your saw your car was rich you probably would have avoided the knock with the modified evo map. I think the evo map you modified needs to be 2 degrees more conservative in the spool up area though. Did you see what your timing was as you were going into your max torque area? The cell was 6* timing(1.8 load,4000rpm). This is too much. I would feel better at 4 or even 3. Make the area below that area 3 or even 2 as load increases in that rpm area. Take all the steps to make sure the timing builds smoothly off that area. Hold the 4500rpm column to the same timing as the 4000. Basically anything after 1.4load and from 3500 up needs to be a tad more conservative.

Why are running 10* coolant temp offset?
 
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