ECMlink SD V3 WOT pulls inside how do they look?

[Archer Fabrications]

im trying to go to friday night TEST N TUNE at pacific raceways tomorrow can someone help me out getting some more aggressive timing and tryin to avoid knock? heres the most recent log of a 1-3 pulls

ill be taking the car down to english next week or so.

 

[MY1GDSM]

If you want to get it tuned by yourself. You just need to Apply what has been already said... . Bump your timing up keep out of the gas a bit and get things dialed in to the the Right AFR at a safer boost. No offence.

But, I'm rather suprised you over the last few months(or longer) haven't hurt the motor with the way you or whoever set the timing like that to begain with went about things.

FYI.. .

Last, I seen ER was pretty booked I'd get in touch with them before hand makeing a trip like that(obviously)... .

But, reagudless, I'd IMHO say getting the car to someone that Actually knows how to tune and has some Real experience would be your best bet at this point.

Honestly, no offence intended. I just think you would have been saving yourself quite a bit of time and in the long run money, just taking it to somewhere competent to begin with an you wouldn't be on a timing map with -neg timing. Who the hell does that anyway

 

[Archer Fabrications]

If you want to get it tuned by yourself. You just need to Apply what has been already said... . Bump your timing up keep out of the gas a bit and get things dialed in to the the Right AFR at a safer boost. No offence.

But, I'm rather suprised you over the last few months(or longer) haven't hurt the motor with the way you or whoever set the timing like that to begain with went about things.

FYI.. .

Last, I seen ER was pretty booked I'd get in touch with them before hand makeing a trip like that(obviously)... .

But, reagudless, I'd IMHO say getting the car to someone that Actually knows how to tune and has some Real experience would be your best bet at this point.

Honestly, no offence intended. I just think you would have been saving yourself quite a bit of time and in the long run money, just taking it to somewhere competent to begin with an you wouldn't be on a timing map with -neg timing. Who the hell does that anyway

Ground Vision performance thats who.. and they dont answer my calls so i think im done with them. english gets my business now. thing is i tried the evo 8 mod 1 map even retarted down and i got knock, i guess i just need to slowly ramp up throttle. i guess i just dont FULLY understand timing still... i get it has to have a smooth transition, i get that it should ramp up after max torque, but i dunno it just seems im very timid when i see knock and im surprised my motor is fine too. it was built very strong though and compression is awesome, and oil is clean as hell. only mechanical issues im having right now are the trans making a very awesome rattling sound but it shifts good still. look at the last log, i got AFRS in line pretty good.

Edit: oh no offence taken, i know your trying to help. i just want something good for tomorrow when i try and run my first 1/4 mile i really want at least high 11s

i bumped up timing so it should be around 0 degrees right before max torque then it will ramp up from there... how do you think this will do? ill have to test it out tonight and see if it knocks.. but im following what has been said

apparently even the smallest change i made to that timing map gave me 3.2 degrees or 9 counts knock :S

 

[Archer Fabrications]

well i went to the track yesterday, filled up with 4 galons of 100oct unleaded into my 3/4 tank 92 oct and i must say she loves the race gas. i think i might just be getting some of this knock cause im on crappy 92. i get from shell or 76 everytime, but sadly 92 is all that is around the pump here in washington. i think im gonna start dumping some toluline in. i was able to hit 4th gear pulls on 25 psi no knock. Even though the track got closed and i didnt get to run, i had some freeway fun on the way home.

im gonna try glens map with the racegas i have

 

[Archer Fabrications]

So toluene added to a 4gal/full tank of 92 and i leaned it out tried glens timing map and got 1.5 degrees of knock so i kept on the evo 8 mod 1 min timing map that has been tweeked. since ive got some race gas mix im feelin saucy about changing the timing so give me suggestions. here is a log. 4th gear pulls no longer knock with race gas very nice i know im off my taret, but this was just for the sake of the race gas tune. im going to be changing my target to 11.1.

 

[MY1GDSM]

Leaned it out to 11:1?

That log is off from that as it is leaner... You're chasing your tail so to say with this, I'd say you still haven't changed the W/b cal right yet?(Not sure what is the real AFR at this point kinda lost track of all this awhile ago)

Without doing that it's IMHO pointless to post log or try to tune the car,
It looks from a glance that your farther off now then the log in post 45, And in the log you still are not on what I'd call "glenns map" for timing... . You may not be picking up knock like before.

But it would help if you're Afr's in the log could be confirmed as correct...

I'd say for every step you take forward. Your still not addressing things that you should have, before even taking a step... and in the end might as well take two steps back, Not sure what else to say besides what I did last post of mine

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Leaned it out to 11:1?

That log is off from that as it is leaner... You're chasing your tail so to say with this, I'd say you still haven't changed the W/b cal right yet?(Not sure what is the real AFR at this point kinda lost track of all this awhile ago)

Without doing that it's IMHO pointless to post log or try to tune the car,
It looks from a glance that your farther off now then the log in post 45, And in the log you still are not on what I'd call "glenns map" for timing... . You may not be picking up knock like before.

But it would help if you're Afr's in the log could be confirmed as correct...

I'd say for every step you take forward. Your still not addressing things that you should have, before even taking a step... and in the end might as well take two steps back, Not sure what else to say besides what I did last post of mine

well that log was a messy tune, i turned up the boost, and leaned out (from what i was targeting which was a 10.6) which i know is rich. im going to english on the 22nd so they are going to do a full tune, yes the WB is correct, ive wrapped it in a gassy towel and logged that as the max RICH as well as change the max rich lambda to what equates to a 10:0 which is what the gauge reads max... not sure what else i can do to calibrate it. that log didnt have glens timing on it, that log i hadent changed timing at all, just upped boost and leaned out from the target only cause i dumped in tolulene and racegas. for my street gas tune the AFRS will not look like this.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

hello everyone, im back with a shep trans! everything is looking good no oil leaks, new clutch, new valve cover gasket, new radiator, new HX40! i am trying to get timing dialed in and get out of the negative timing, i managed to get up a little farther with this HX40 the WB has been properly calibrated, i dipped it in gas and logged the max rich

as per calans new thread
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/log-file-advice/443164-please-read-before-you-ask-log-advice.html

here's the new setup checklist:
ZERO Boost leaks!!! exhaust leak possibly from test pipe to catback (was running open DP) shoudlent matter. yay!
mechanical timing verified 5*
NGK BPR8ES .26 gap fairly new and NGK wires new gaped to .26 as per suggested by my builder and to resist spark blowout.
last compression test yielded 185,190,185,185 dry compression on april 14th 2012 on a 9.2:1 compression with about 5800 miles now
Throttle body adjustments- i have NOT yet grounded the ISC to get the ISC position down to 30, ive been fighting that a little bit. and am having a lower idle when cold since switching turbos. when car is hot i get a perfect 1k idle.
Base fuel pressure 43.5 verified.

The only gas i have around here is 92oct
No CELs (got a stupid airbag light though)
Seeing decent battery voltage low 13v.

Now with that all being said here are my logs. note each log after the other has included adjustments made from the previous.

i would also like help tuning my 4th gear, as you can see in the 3rd log there as soon as i hit 4th i got knock after i get the timing figured out im gonna try and work my way up to 30psi.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Any thoughts on these logs?

 

[Jstue]

You need to turn down your boost when you're trying to get your tune squared away, all that negative timing is allowing you to run all that boost with no knock, its also super heating your exhaust system and turbo. turn down the boost to 19 psi and put some timing in there. Once you find the sweet spot turn up the boost a little, its always a battle between boost and timing and you are on one end of the spectrum.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

You need to turn down your boost when you're trying to get your tune squared away, all that negative timing is allowing you to run all that boost with no knock, its also super heating your exhaust system and turbo. turn down the boost to 19 psi and put some timing in there. Once you find the sweet spot turn up the boost a little, its always a battle between boost and timing and you are on one end of the spectrum.

You do know that im on 19 psi right? it is shown in the log. Thats my wastegate pressure. I'm only flowing 40 lb a min at 20psi so really the Holset isnt flowing nearly as much air as it could at a higher boost where it is efficient. Got any helpful advise? What you just said has been covered in this thread and others i have had. I need someone with dsmlink experience to check this out because they would know the best timing curve for this application. preferably someone running a 7 blade HX40 and with similar mods or has tuned someones car with similar mods. Or my1gdsm, calan, glen you guys have been very helpful thus far, mind helping me continue to get squared away here?

The previous logs to my last post are pretty much VOID at this point because i don't have the same turbo setup.

 

[MY1GDSM]

Thought you just went to get it tuned???

I don't think there is going to be much to add that already hasn't been said... Sorry.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Thought you just went to get it tuned???

I don't think there is going to be much to add that already hasn't been said... Sorry.

No man the transmission blew and i just slapped on the shep stage 3, didnt get a change to make it to english.... and since i have a new setup i think things would be a little different, and i don't think people were taking my higher compression into consideration?

 

[Calan]

I think your biggest issue is that you are trying to run 92 octane in a 9.2:1 compression motor at 20psi and an average AFR of 11.2:1.

Your timing is still ridiculously low. You need to start with something closer to a stock 2g or evo timing map at less boost, and adjust timing downward in the appropriate cells when you experience knock. It also wouldn't hurt to drop your target AFRs to something like 10.8:1 with that gas.

Once you have no knock throughout a pull, increase boost 1 or 2 psi and repeat. If you can't get to at least something like 12-13* of timing at an AFR of 10.8:1 at low boost, something else is going on.

The last log looks about right, for the amount of airflow you are pushing. Is that the limit of boost and/or timing before you get knock? If not, why did you stop there with the timing?

BTW - What is your altitude and ambient temp?




EDIT:

I just looked at the earlier logs, and you aren't changing the DA timing at all where you need to be ramping it, and there is no knock at all above 5500rpm or so. The only knock that shows up is one small blip of 1.4*, which can be adjusted with a single cell change.

So I'm confused. Where are the logs where you were running something closer to a normal timing ramp above 5500rpm, and had knock?

 

[Archer Fabrications]

I think your biggest issue is that you are trying to run 92 octane in a 9.2:1 compression motor at 20psi and an average AFR of 11.2:1.

Your timing is still ridiculously low. You need to start with something closer to a stock 2g or evo timing map at less boost, and adjust timing downward in the appropriate cells when you experience knock. It also wouldn't hurt to drop your target AFRs to something like 10.8:1 with that gas.

Once you have no knock throughout a pull, increase boost 1 or 2 psi and repeat. If you can't get to at least something like 12-13* of timing at an AFR of 10.8:1 at low boost, something else is going on.

The last log looks about right, for the amount of airflow you are pushing. Is that the limit of boost and/or timing before you get knock? If not, why did you stop there with the timing?

BTW - What is your altitude and ambient temp?




EDIT:

I just looked at the earlier logs, and you aren't changing the DA timing at all where you need to be ramping it, and there is no knock at all above 5500rpm or so. The only knock that shows up is one small blip of 1.4*, which can be adjusted with a single cell change.

So I'm confused. Where are the logs where you were running something closer to a normal timing ramp above 5500rpm, and had knock?

The evo 8 mod 1 maps are in here somewhere but that was with the ball bearing turbo. My waste gate is at a 19 psi spring so im on the lowest boost i can be on right now. I can take out one spring if necessary. I've been experimenting with different timing maps and have seen knock. Ambient lately is about 65-70 degrees at sea level my waste gate spring is a double spring i have an 11 psi and a 8psi one. Although with this turbo the waste gate opens before any real boost pressure is made with anything lower then like 15 psi.

Good to know about the AFRs and 10.8 i thought that was a little rich? i'll target that now.
ill load up the evo 8 mod 1 map and post it here i have not tried that since i had the WB calibrated and have gotten AFRs in line. Maybe that will help? I am noticing being able to add more timing with this turbo then the other one without knock. Maybe this one just has a more gradual power curve? Even with the low map i'm on right now i have seen some knock though and im hoping thats just cause my transitions aren't smooth. I have been looking at others HX40 logs and their lowest timing spot is 3* and max peak is 15* that seems crazy, and most likely on a 8.3:1 compression. *Crossing my fingers for the evo 8 mod 1 map, maybe ill take down the top end a few drgeress and target a peak of 8*?

Im sort of looking for a suggestion on what my lowest timing SHOULD be at what RPM and what my MAX timing peak should hold at from what RPM on. Thats sort of where i'm lost. I have been getting a lot of info but it seems to have all been variant and i have had other issues with the car previously to these HX40 logs. This is the first time the car has actually been 100% sound.

(to the spelling nazi mods i will be fixing puncutation and grammer in a bit, i am just hurrying out of work at the moment)


Edit: spoke too soon, i have a bad coil pack, or soemthing is not giving spark to 2 and 3, which are on coils 3 and 4. interesting and sucks

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Just got back from Canada, went to Magnus and talked to leo and marco. was pretty sweet up there. i have a new PTU and coil pack im going to try today hopefully that will all work out and i can post up logs with the maps i loaded before this happened

 

[Archer Fabrications]

i think im really getting limited by my compression... check these logs out. this is a 2g timing map and i even lowered it so it wouldent be as high. and the second one is on my low timing. i just upped the boost a whole turn on the controller and im at 23 psi now. i dont get why this is such a challange. everything is perfect, just replaced ignition componenents and re solderd my #1 injector clip. car runs great, great AFRS just ass timing and some knock if i touch it at all. let me know if you see anything out of wack with either of these. this HX 40 puts alot of load on early its crazy. im like half way down the map instantly at 4k rpm

 

[Calan]

Have you checked your base timing?

Have you tried running a couple gallons of race gas?

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Have you checked your base timing?

Have you tried running a couple gallons of race gas?

how often am i supposed to check base timing? seems lilke everyones asking that. its been verified at 5* a few months ago.. and its been sittin for a while. i have not tried race gas with this setup. i have tried toluene on my last setup but i didn't think a gallon at 20 bucks was very economical. i tried 100 OCT when i was at the track, and since it rained out at that time i had a fun ride back and the car loved it. that pump is about 2.3 hours away though.

ill link this up. this is a current thread with current logs from 2 days ago.

http://www.dsmlink.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71718

 

[Calan]

how often am i supposed to check base timing?

Every time you start the car. Duh.

...seems lilke everyones asking that..

It's because of the fact that you are running such crazy low timing at reasonable AFRs and getting what appears to be real knock. This points to the reported ignition timing not being accurate...unless you just have some really crappy gas, and your motor just doesn't like it at the higher compression. If nothing is mechanically wrong with the car, then you may just be at the limit of your fuel/boost/AFR/timing combination at that CR.

Do you have any race gas logs? How much timing were you able to run on it? Any knock?

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Every time you start the car. Duh.



It's because of the fact that you are running such crazy low timing at reasonable AFRs and getting what appears to be real knock. This points to the reported ignition timing not being accurate...unless you just have some really crappy gas, and your motor just doesn't like it at the higher compression. If nothing is mechanically wrong with the car, then you may just be at the limit of your fuel/boost/AFR/timing combination at that CR.

Do you have any race gas logs? How much timing were you able to run on it? Any knock?

sadly i deleted all my old logs when i switched this setup.. im gonna be very angry if im at my limit.. i guess WHEN i get around to it we will see what english has to say... i have planned to go to them for when i wanna make power but its been a battle saving for it. until then i am just trying to get to 25 psi and have a normal log, heres what im gonna do. im gonna buy a gallon of toluene next thursday (cause im that broke) and see if i can bump anything up. if thats my answer... thats sad and expensive.. just for you calan i will recheck the base timing i do have a suspicion that i have rattling in the bay that is contributing to this. i have exhaust wrap that im gonna put around the lower IC pipe, sadly i dont have any metal ties so im gonna hope some thick zip ties will do the trick... since its not an exhaust pipe after all.


Am i hurting anything as i sit now? if i got rid of the knock...? i guess no one can answer that but an EGT gauge huh.. i do have a buddy with an IR temp reader, what is the max temp that would be safe to have as an external temp on the runners if that was my only way of measuring EGTs right now? like 1400? i really dont know what is reasonable and this has been my biggest fear all along. when people were telling me i was probably melting exhaust valves and that i was basically anti lagging my WOT... well to be honest it doesn't sound like anti lag... it sounds like normal pulls no backfiring no black or blue smoke no nothing... just a low timing curve on the logs. i would know if it was doing the same thing as anti lag right???? or would i not.

 

[Calan]

im gonna be very angry if im at my limit..

I didn't say you were at the limit; just the limit of the combination you are running. Try running richer and see if you can increase timing.

what is the max temp that would be safe to have as an external temp on the runners if that was my only way of measuring EGTs right now?

That's the $10,000 question. A common number that gets tossed around is anything above 1650F in the runners for any length of time is a bad deal. FWIW, I cruise at around 1300-1330F (75 mph), and around 1250 at slower street speeds. During a pull, I'll sometimes briefly touch 1680F or so...but I don't let it stay there for long.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

I didn't say you were at the limit; just the limit of the combination you are running. Try running richer and see if you can increase timing.



That's the $10,000 question. A common number that gets tossed around is anything above 1650F in the runners for any length of time is a bad deal. FWIW, I cruise at around 1300-1330F (75 mph), and around 1250 at slower street speeds. During a pull, I'll sometimes briefly touch 1680F or so...but I don't let it stay there for long.

do you log your EGT or is that just from glancing? think this is gonna be my next investment. although these AEM gauges are too finicky.. i hate my oil pressure gauge.. whats a good one that your runnin?

 

[Calan]

do you log your EGT or is that just from glancing?

I usually just watch the gauge...but I log it occasionally.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

i put some DEI wrap on the lower IC piping and sandwiched a little bit between the dump tube and the radiator so no more vibrating.. hope that gets rid of the knock.. IF it was phantom.. i guess we will find out. 20 psi im not getting any knock right now. and decent AFRS. the last log may have been wondering because i loaded a different timing map and forgot to load the corresponding VE table.