ECMlink sd wot tuning question

[casperfast]

i am going to my first test and tune at my local track this weekend and i want to get my wot sd dialed in. only problem....... i have next to never gone full throttle with this car since the rebuild. not sure if it matters it is an auto. my question about wot tuning is this formula : New SD = (Current AFR) / (Desired AFR) x current VE . i understand this formula, but what numbers am i comparing as the "sd" figure, and is the "ve" going to be that "ve" in the table and then interpolate the area? here is a recent log, as far as i know i am logging all neccary items, but i dont know what figure to use as "sd" in my logs. thanks best i can tell, in this attached log @ 151.38 sec in, my sd table reads 13.1, and my wideband reads13.7=.948x current ve(13.1) = 12.43. so i am assuming i adjust my ve table at this spot from 13.1 to 12.4..... am i getting this? now this is not a full throttle run only an example. and what should i be doing with the WBfactor? this reads 5.3% at this spot, am i to assume i am 5.3% rich in the sd table? ( as in 13.1 to 12.4?)

 

[ENICKB]

If its +% then its adding fuel, so you should add 1 or 2 units to that cell of the SD table... You should use the ecmlink.com forums. But I can help you out. Ill give everybody a run-down for fun.

First setup your log to get whatever you like to stare at, plus make sure you have rpm, combinedft, wideband AFR, boost, knock. And for idling, make sure coolant is at 175+degrees, start a DATALOG, and go to your SPEED DENSITY table while its idling, and while your datalogging, and in the top right hand corner select TRACK DATALOG. Let idle for 10 or so seconds, stop datalog... Then look at your datalog, and look around at what your combinedft is (fuel trim). And where your combinedft is negative%, go to your speed density table, and if say the number is 60 in that block or blocks, then reduce the number to 58. (Because your combined ft is negative, it means that your computer is having to alter fuel delivery by x% in order to acheive 14.7 afr. So if you decrease the number in your SPEED DENSITY table, it will decrease the ammount of fuel your car delivers at that Load and RPM.) The numbers at the top of the speed density table are rpm, and on the left side it is load/boost. And if your combinedft% is positive, then add numbers in that section of the speed density table. You should do this in different rpms, at different levels of vaccum/barely entering boost. And remember to "reset your fuel trims" after a lot of adjustments. And for WOT pulls. Start at 3000rpm, floor it, and shoot for 11.1-10.8 if on pump gas at 3/4 to full boost.

And in WOT pulls, combinedft will not be working anymore because you will be in/out open loop. So it will rely strictly on your numbers in your speed density table. Its easy to tune once you get the hang of it. Remember to save your settings when tinkering!!! Do different pulls at 3000rpm, then 3500, then 4000, and so on, to fill out your speed density table completely accurately for your setup. Yes, it can take a while. Dont get pulled over! PM me for any additional questions. I thought I would try to be helpful.

 

[casperfast]

so at the exacot time i referenced in my log 13.7(actual)/ 13(desired) = 1.05 x .74 (ve shown in log) = .77 so i need to go into the speed density tab and change the reading from 74.5 to 77? this would then tell the ecu is is getting 3.2% mor air than it thinks and naturally lean the mixture as its new target? ok i get that part. so the wb factor will work open loop or closed loop then? thanks for your help

 

[snowborder714]

You should check out LinkTools. Tuning SD by hand isn't the easiest because the ECU could be using up to 4 SD cells at once and you don't really have an idea (without some complex math) what percentage of each cell is being used. If you check out the videos Craig posted, you'll learn more about this.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/ecmlink-tuning-log-file-advice/411083-ecmlink-linktools.html

 

[casperfast]

ive tried linktools, but i cant get anything to import into the spreadsheet. ive even tried multiple versions of excel

 

[casperfast]

i always get "throttle not found in log" even though it is and i have tried every other name

 

[Boostdriven]

I see that ENICKB got you started on some of the info oh how to tune but if you don't mind reading I would like to explain it to you some more, hopefully I can help.

Once you got your base tune in closed loop, just cruising around in closed loop in vacuum and mild boost (2 psi or less) then its to wot pulls.

There are several ways you can do this. I found it easiest to go in to your direct access under maxoctane and set your desired air/fuel ratios at a given rpms and load. Load will depend on the boost so you might have to do some little pulls just to get a feel for what load value is being used at whatever boost level. Those are the air/fuel values that will be displayed in your log under air/fuel ratio estimate at wot. If you need help setting up different air/fuel ratios at different rpm and load contact me via PM and I will email you some pics of what I have to get you started. Anyways lest say you get your maxoctane to where you want it so when you hit wot and your car will go in to open loop you air/fuel ratio estimate will display the values that you programed in to your maxoctane which you want the actual air/fuel ratios to be.

Now start at like 2000 rpms in 3rd gear and hit wot while logging and hold it until you hit full boost at whatever rpm your engine spools up then let go of the gas and hit stop log. If your doing this on the street pull over and look over your log. You should be able to see your air/fuel ratio estimate displaying a given number at given rpm and load and you also will see you wideband displaying the actual air/fuel ratios. Now go to your VE table, on the right top corner you will see a button that says, track, click that, next to it will be a button that says, detach table, click that, then on the left top corner of now detached table you will see a box that you can check it says always on top, check that box and that will keep your VE table always on top.

Now click on your log and you will see that your VE table is now top of that, shrink your VE table to a comfortable size so you can still see your log. Start at 2000 rpms and compare your actual air/fuel ratios to your air/fuel ratio estimate. If your wide band is reading leaner or richer at a give rpm look at your VE table to see what sell your ecu uses to produce that air/fuel ratio and add or subtract value accordingly in your VE table. I'm not sure of an exact formula for the right amount of corrections to the VE table but I know each car is different due to injector size and the engine set up.

For example, if your air/fuel ratio estimate says 12.5 and your wide band reads 13.2 add like 4% to the cell that the ecu uses at that time to produce those air/fuel ratios. Go through that whole log, from 2000 rpms to where you hit full boost and make the changes in your VE table accordingly. Now when you make a change to one cell, let's say at 15psi and 3500 rpms, you will also have to change the values in the cells to the left and right of it. You want the numbers to kind of flow instead of being sporadic and all over the place. Once you have made your changes repeat that same pull again and see how things leveled out, if more correction needs to be done repeat the process again.

Once you get that close look at the values in your VE table at full boost (lest say 3500 rpms and x amount of boost) those values will remain the same for the most part past 3500 and x amount of boost all the way to red line. If you made a drastic change to your VE values at 3500 then most likely your values at 4000,4500,5000,5500 rpms and so on will change about the same amount. You can go through your VE table and set the high rpm values to the same number. You can repeat this process in your VE table in the area where your boost comes on. So if you added or subtracted values in the VE table as your boost came on, most likely your values in the VE table will react the same at 4000,4500,5000,5500 rpms and so on as boost comes on.

Once you feel like you have made enough changes to your VE table and you got your spool up air/fuel ratios dialed in close do another pull and log it again. Again start at 2000 rpms in 3rd gear but this time hold your rpms to like 4500 rpms, let off the gas, stop the log and go over it again the same way. In your VE table, track the log, detach table and hit always on top box. Make your adjustments to the VE table accordingly and do another pull. This time take it even higher in the rpm and repeat the process again.

There are few things you want to look out for. First make sure that your timing table is set up where its safe and yet close to where you will want it to be. I know the stock timing table in the direct access is very conservative and a lot of improvement can be made. At higher rpms stock table runs very low numbers for timing. If you need help setting that table contact me via PM and I can email the pic of a table which should get you starred according to your turbo spool up and boost settings.

I found it easier to set up your timing and maxoctane values in direct access first that way you know your timing is at least close to where you want it to be and your air/fuel ratio estimate in your log is displaying the ratios that you want your car to run. All you have to do then is just mess with your VE table to add/subtract fuel. Keep in mind that your sliders in live access under fuel and timing should be at 0, you don't need to use them now to make changes to your ecu. If you wanted to they could be used as a quick cheat to make a quick correction but then it messes with your direct access values and therefore will not display the correct value in your log under timing and air/fuel ratio estimate.

The reason why I say to do your pulls in 3rd gear is because I found 3rd gear to be kind of happy medium between 2nd and 4th. 4th gear will give you higher boost/load at lower rpms and 2nd gear will give you boost/load at higher rpms. Once you get your 3rd dialed in close you can do few pulls in 2nd gear which will show you how your VE table is where you extrapolated it in to higher rpms from your 3rd gear pulls where you had to make changed to it by guessing like I talked about above. Also you can do some pulls in 4th gear witch will cause the car to spool up sooner causing more load at an earlier rpm so you will have to make the changes to your VE table there using the same process of logging then adjusting you VE table off your log. Once in boost and rolling then 3rd, 4th and 5th gears should all be pretty close as far as VE table goes.

Anyways sorry if I'm not making sense somewhere in my novel, if you have other questions let me know and I'll try my best to help.

 

[snowborder714]

i always get "throttle not found in log" even though it is and i have tried every other name

Sounds like you haven't included all of the necessary displayed items included in the extract - specifically TPS.

 

[Cdc1221]

Owwoww my head! I just ordered an sd kit

 

[casperfast]

i do have tps in there, i have tried naming it multiple things as well.

boostdriven, thank you. ill be reading this several times.

 

[Boostdriven]

You need to make sure you add all the necessary items to your captured values list first before you can add them to the displayed values list.

I do all my posts off my phone so unfortunately I can't open ecmlink logs with it. Email me a picture of a screen shot where you get full boost in 2nd gear and I'll put together a timing table for you that will get you started. Sorry I haven't ran a 14b turbo for a very long time so I can't remember how it reacts I'll PM you my phone number so you can call me this evening and I'll explain it to you in more dept, its hard to put everything in writing when there is so much to it.

 

[casperfast]

ok. will do. i plan on going for a drive in the next hour or two

 

[Boostdriven]

Owwoww my head! I just ordered an sd kit

It's not as bad as it looks. You just need to know and understand what does what and how it works, combined with a little common sense and you can have your car running at its best. There is a lot of useful info on Ecmlink website and sometimes it helps to ask a guy who designed the program

 

[Cdc1221]

Im definitely gonna try... I cant stand having an obstruction in front of my turbo. Plus it leaves intake placement to your imagination instead of being stuck with stock fitment

 

[casperfast]

so here is a wot pull after some moderate tuning. where it says im rich i should be increasing my sd table there right? and i got a little knock and pulled some timming at those points.

 

[turbosax2]

You should be decreasing the VE number when you are rich. In other words, if WBFactor is negative, your VE needs to be lowered. I ran your log through LinkTools and this is what it gave (needs blended, of course):

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[Boostdriven]

Where the car runs rich you need that lower that value in the VE table, where it goes lean you raise that value. You could be knocking because the car runs rich.

 

[casperfast]

make much more sense now. turbosax- can you upload that corrected ve table as a log so i can impliment it or should i just copy the numbers over?

 

[turbosax2]

I deleted the spreadsheet already, but you can just copy the numbers over and blend them in. The ones that were changed are bold.

 

[Boostdriven]

If you have changed the values in your direct access under maxoctane like we talked about then those new values in VE table don't mean nothing to you now.

 

[casperfast]

yea i did so ill continue. i already changed the openloop threshold for load factor to be more usable. and i just did the blue wire mod with a switched relay. ill make some more runs tomorrow and get it dialed in. thanks alex

 

[Boostdriven]

No problem, if you got questions you know how to get a hold of me.