Thoughts on FP 68HTA

[E116]

I just noticed forced performance has come out with a billet wheel in TD05H turbine section. They say it flows 47lb/min which is around what im looking for. Is there anyone running this turbo yet? What do you think about it? I am looking at going with either this turbo, an E3 16g or HX35. Here is what they have written about it:

"Everyone has seen or heard about Evo3 16g turbos and TD05H 18g turbos for the Mitsubishi Eclipse 4G63 engines, our newest turbo for this application is the FP 68HTA™ Turbocharger for DSM Flanged Vehicle which out flows both the E316g and 18g wheels and allows for higher PR operation without increased compressor outlet temperatures like the existing 16g and 18g wheels. Mass flow is increased to a whopping 47lb/min which is several lb/min greater than either the E316g or the 18g wheels are capable. Rapid spool and large torque numbers are guaranteed by the TD05H turbine section. "

 

[Rob10_99]

Sounds like a winner, right? It uses the same exhaust housing but flows more, but the way it is worded it sounds like it may be a tad slower on spool.
Damn just took a look at that thing, hollow shaft, really? That cover looks paper thin with that huge wheel in there!

 

[toofast82]

It would be better in my opinion if it was offered with a tdo6h as an upgrade option. The tdo5h will become a restriction after 24-25psi and they are maxed at ~45lb/min. The tdo6h will offer more flow per psi and will be capable of the 47lb/min compressor rating.

 

[TuRBoTaLooN]

Sounds awesome! Definitely a great upgrade for less than $1k flowing 47lb/min

 

[JusMX141]

I'd like to know what FP is doing to the TD05H turbine which allows it to reach 47 lb/min of airflow, and why they abandoned the 06SL2 turbine that they spoke so highly of a few months ago. The 06SL2 turbine was preached to spool like a 05H but flow like an 06.

My prior experience with the TD05H turbine when used on anything larger than a 20G yeilds no more than 42lb/min at boost levels where the 20G+ sized wheels make power. FP is showing this 68HTA turbo with a TD05H turbine and an unported 7cm housing, no less.

 

[Rob10_99]

Yeah I seriously laughed when I saw they say it flows 47lb/min and with it showing an unported housing...
But after thinking about it, I'd sport it, purely because it looks stock and its got a wheel the size of nevada.
Reminds me of big wheeled T3's with thrust bearing issues, right Jus?

 

[toofast82]

But after thinking about it, I'd sport it, purely because it looks stock and its got a wheel the size of nevada.

I'm assuming from the name(68hta), that the compressor wheel has a 68mm exducer, which would be the same as a b16g-20g.
Not sure what the compressor inducer is though?
I've seen a few people cram a gt3071r wheel in the stock compressor housing, which has a 71mm exducer and slightly larger inducer than a 20g, but those wheels are VERY hard to find by themselves.
I'm still sticking with the tdo5h as being a restriction in the whole recipe.

 

[E116]

I'm assuming from the name(68hta), that the compressor wheel has a 68mm exducer, which would be the same as a b16g-20g.

So would this spool about the same as a b16g? or a little earlier because its billet?

 

[toofast82]

So would this spool about the same as a b16g? or a little earlier because its billet?

Well its hard to say, because the larger inducer may cause a little hardly-noticable lag, but then the billet may help it out. Either way, with a tdo5h turbine, it should spool pretty quick!

 

[Steve93Talon]

If you check FPs turbo options for EVOs, look at the FP White. This is where the 68HTA wheel originated. People running that turbo on EVOs have reported that it spools slightly faster than stock. I'm running something similar on my EVO called a BBK Lite. It's a billet compressor wheel with the stock TD05H hotside (they also offer the BBK Full which has an upgraded turbine wheel). I LOVE my turbo, the spool is insane, and there's plenty of power to be had up top (I made about 50whp more than a typical stock turbo'd car would make with the same supporting mods).

The guys saying the turbine wheel is a restriction need to reconsider how a turbo works. It's a dynamic system. The turbine wheel only needs to spin fast enough to maintain the targeted boost pressure of the compressor side. The rest is wastegated around the wheel. So the more efficient your compressor side is, the less shaft speed you need to hit your target boost. Therefore a turbo like this with the ability to hit pressure ratios of 4.5 without overspinning the shaft is able to flow the same air with less shaft speed than an EVO3 16g. That means all other things being equal, you have LESS of a need for a bigger turbine wheel. If anything, you'll have to port the wastegate to avoid creep because you'll be wastegating more exhaust gas at a given flow level.

To back this up, take a look at the Garrett GT 30R or 35R. Compare them to an old skool 50 trim or 60-1. The GT series turbine wheels are much smaller yet they're able to sustain better flow. The best example is a 3082R, which is a 35r comp. wheel with a 30r turbine wheel. AKA the same CHRA used in the FP3065. What you're seeing with this HTA68 is the same principle applied to a smaller scale.

 

[95GreenGSX]

If I was going to spend that kind of money on a "16g" I'd just go with the HTA 30r. IMO.

 

[toofast82]

The guys saying the turbine wheel is a restriction need to reconsider how a turbo works. It's a dynamic system. The turbine wheel only needs to spin fast enough to maintain the targeted boost pressure of the compressor side. The rest is wastegated around the wheel. So the more efficient your compressor side is, the less shaft speed you need to hit your target boost. Therefore a turbo like this with the ability to hit pressure ratios of 4.5 without overspinning the shaft is able to flow the same air with less shaft speed than an EVO3 16g. That means all other things being equal, you have LESS of a need for a bigger turbine wheel. If anything, you'll have to port the wastegate to avoid creep because you'll be wastegating more exhaust gas at a given flow level.

To back this up, take a look at the Garrett GT 30R or 35R. Compare them to an old skool 50 trim or 60-1. The GT series turbine wheels are much smaller yet they're able to sustain better flow. The best example is a 3082R, which is a 35r comp. wheel with a 30r turbine wheel. AKA the same CHRA used in the FP3065. What you're seeing with this HTA68 is the same principle applied to a smaller scale.

It must also be considered that an engine is an airpump and the air you have coming in, you want to escape in a most efficient manner. Lesser flowing turbines will create higher manifold backpressure when pushed to the limits
A larger turbine isn't always necessarily going to mean more flow, it can depend on amount of blades and curvature of them as well which may be the case when comparing the GT turbines to old school garrett turbines. There is many years difference in technology between these.
It is also said the HX-40 turbine in the bolt-on housing flows as well, if not better than the gt35 turbine in a larger a/r housing. That is because of the geometry of the turbine itself.

In the case of this turbo, yes the td05h turbine will work great at 15psi,20psi and probably a few more than that. It doesn't mean a larger turbine(o6sl2,06h) won't make more power at say 15psi, due to more flow per psi. That was the whole point when the tdo6sl2 turbine came out in the 18g. AMS had a dyno test which proved its better flow per psi over a small 16g, but on low boost/power setup where the s16gs compressor would be more efficient.
The tdo5h is at its edge around 42-45lb/min and usually around 24-25psi.
What i'm saying is, if you plan on pushing this turbo to its 47lb/min rating, this turbo would benefit from a better flowing turbine or possibly larger a/r housing to help out some
Also the higher boost you are running, the less air you are bypassing with the wastegate, which would make creep less likely. If someone is buying this turbo to run 15psi, they should stick with a 14b or 16g
Just as they have compressor maps, they have turbine maps
Ask anyone who's gone from a 6cm to a 7cm turbine housing on a 14b, exhaust flow matters!

Evo guys tend to use larger turbine housings which will help overall exhaust flow.
What a/r housing is on your evo's turbo?

 

[UofACATS]

If I was going to spend that kind of money on a "16g" I'd just go with the HTA 30r. IMO.

There is a massive difference in necessary supporting modifications.

 

[toofast82]

There is a massive difference in necessary supporting modifications.

It depends on what your goals are with the 16g. If you just want a replacement turbo and are going to run 10psi, then there are no supporting mods. If you are shooting for 400whp on the 16g, then its going to require the same stuff pretty much(tuning,fuel,etc)

 

[hubz91talontsi]

Yeah I seriously laughed when I saw they say it flows 47lb/min and with it showing an unported housing...
But after thinking about it, I'd sport it, purely because it looks stock and its got a wheel the size of nevada.
Reminds me of big wheeled T3's with thrust bearing issues, right Jus?

Sounds like me. Justin just rebuilt my turbo and told me id have thrust problems.
Doesn't bother me =D

 

[JusMX141]

I've seen a few people cram a gt3071r wheel in the stock compressor housing, which has a 71mm exducer and slightly larger inducer than a 20g, but those wheels are VERY hard to find by themselves.

Ah yes. I, too, have had one of these pass through my shop. It's now on Christi's 2G, and I aptly named said turbo the "Texas 16G" because it uses the largest compressor wheel that will fit in a TD05H cover:

 

[Rob10_99]

So what compressor is that exactly? Looks like a cut down GT30 wheel,

 

[toofast82]

So what compressor is that exactly? Looks like a cut down GT30 wheel,

It's a GT3071R compressor with a 53mm inducer and 71mm exducer: For reference a 20g is 52mm/68mm

 

[UofACATS]

It depends on what your goals are with the 16g. If you just want a replacement turbo and are going to run 10psi, then there are no supporting mods. If you are shooting for 400whp on the 16g, then its going to require the same stuff pretty much(tuning,fuel,etc)

He said HTA 30r. This implies a Forced Performance FP30 series turbo. They require the supporting mods I was referring to (i.e. the v-band o2 housing, etc.). Price out the cost of bolting on a 16G vs. bolting on a FP30 series HTA, and that's the massive difference I was referring to.

 

[DoyoFCT]

I'm surprised they didn't use a 20g comp housing for this turbo, but at the 925 dollar price point I would buy a bolt-on hx40 which will blow this turbo out of the water even if it makes 47lbs /min hell i'd go with an HX35 before paying 925 for a stuffed 16g.

The main benefit I guess is that it "appears" stock so it could appeal to people in that area of "it's an evo3 turbo I swear!" ha!

 

[pboglio]

Sounds alot like a 20g sized wheel stuffed into a TD05H CHRA. Not a bad option if I hadn't already bought my EVO3 16g, maybe something I'll get for my 05 STi instead.

 

[E116]

I've been reading a lot about this turbo on evo and wrx forums lately. They are in different housings, but the 68HTA wheel seems to be really effective. The 20pis is reached slightly slower than an E3 16g on a 2.0L. It does loose a little up top but it seems like it would be a good street turbo.

It looks like they got rid of the 18g. This turbo spools faster and flows more for around the price that the 18g was.

 

[360glitch]

Old thread I know, but for those of you doubting FP's claim of 47 pounds a minute I can confirm that I'm getting that with the 68HTA I bolted on over the weekend. I only have one afternoon of tuning on the car (been raining since) however I'm loving it so far. The tune still needs a good bit more work but I'm getting 20psi by the mid 3400 range and 30psi by 4000. (93 octane, 2.0L)

 

[need2boostpsi]

is this the same turbo that Lucas English took into the low 10'S?

 

[TSimage]

is this the same turbo that Lucas English's wife took into the low 10'S?

Corrected for you, and yes, yes it is...


I'm still laughing at this guy however:

I'm surprised they didn't use a 20g comp housing for this turbo, but at the 925 dollar price point I would buy a bolt-on hx40 which will blow this turbo out of the water even if it makes 47lbs /min hell i'd go with an HX35 before paying 925 for a stuffed 16g.

The main benefit I guess is that it "appears" stock so it could appeal to people in that area of "it's an evo3 turbo I swear!" ha!

Ah Ignorance is bliss isn't it? After years upon years of the HX40 being available, I believe the fastest one runs high 10s (non backed up) Where as this little guy has ran back to back mid/low 10s already without breaking a sweat on a full weight car and stock block that just so happens to be an auto to boot.