The quest for the AWD 14b record title WITHOUT nitrous continues

[spoonman]

Where does your car stand now? Have you made a pass yet?

Right now the engine and drive train are out of the car because we are swapping them into a chassis that already has a good rollcage and is stripped. The engine is a 2.3 and the drive train is an AWD automatic. The other reason why the car is pulled apart for the off season is because we are upgrading the fuel system, before it was an Bosch 044 with 4x1650cc injectors, now we are changing to a manual pump and either more injectors or larger 2250cc injectors.

So far we have only a few tuning passes (6) but the fuel system is lacking, now the track is closed intill spring. I did not want to give out any times yet but the fastest pass so far is 11.7. We are actually looking to break into the 9.9 territory and demolish Joe's record. I want to have the car making good consistent times by June and I will wait intill the Shoot-Out to make an all out record pass.

The boost pressure will be kept around 19-20 PSI but we will be experimenting with different levels at the track, The compressor should be flowing around 450 CFM's, with air density at .0689 the compressor should flow 31 LBS/MIN. On gasoline that should give you around 300 HP but with methanol 31 LBS can net 370 HP. But this example of HP only uses the the amount of air and fuel being consumed and does not take into account the higher compression ratio of pistons, advanced timing, colder intake charge, and colder EGT's. I believe we can make 400+ HP and the car will have to be as light as possible, hopefully with driver around 2500.

 

[TSimage]

You have a valid point. In the end, the only real record is who is the fastest period. But where's the fun in that? That's why we break things down into categories, turbo sizes, gas vs alcohol, awd vs. fwd, auto vs. manual, nitrous vs w/out nitrous. We could all make up some kind of record that we could overtake couldn't we

I think in the end the only thing that matters is that a good majority of people respect it as a "unofficial record". To me 14b breaks down into awd vs fwd and w/nitrous vs w/out nitrous. Those are the records I respect. Maybe some agree, maybe some don't, it doesn't really matter in the end.

I have no qualms with categorizing but where does it end... I don't believe in categorizing records simplyn by the turbo setup. Too tedius and too many differnt turbos. If you do one you gotta do em all... I believe record should be categorized by platform. Awd vs rwd vs fwd and then by type. Manual or auto. Street vs race, Nothing else really matters.

Only reason to make so many categories is so people can tootntheir own horn. I don't care if its a 1g or 2g. If you have a 2g why seperate your times from everyone else... no other car group do that. There is no major difference to validate it. For those that think there is they must support the idea that 2gs aren't real DSMs anyways.

Sure some one can argue they are the fastest amoung 2gs or no nitrous but in the end its dsm vs dsm.

 

[99gst_racer]

Fuel were using is turbo blue 115 which we actually have at the pump here. (YAY FOR PA!)

You mean 110 octane, right?

We sell three different flavors of Sunoco here at Motorstate. I've been running the turbo blue in my 2G all year.



You guys are kicking my ass with your 14b cars. I haven't worked on my 14B 1G all year. But, once it's track worthy, I too will be going after Joe B's "no nitrous" record. I'm building the entire car around that goal.

 

[rhamlinii]

Well I can tell you now, a 14b awd has been faster then 11.40's on spary.I think it kind of nice hearing all these things from different people.

Well I can tell you now, a 14b awd has been faster then 11.40's on spary.I think it's kind of nice hearing all these things from different people.

 

[Phil1320]

You mean 110 octane, right?

We sell three different flavors of Sunoco here at Motorstate. I've been running the turbo blue in my 2G all year.



You guys are kicking my ass with your 14b cars. I haven't worked on my 14B 1G all year. But, once it's track worthy, I too will be going after Joe B's "no nitrous" record. I'm building the entire car around that goal.

Well, that's cool, I hope you hit that goal! Good luck! I guess somebody should draw up a bulls-eye with Project Goodwill in the center....it will be interesting to see where all you guys land on that board....

Well I can tell you now, a 14b awd has been faster then 11.40's on spary.I think it kind of nice hearing all these things from different people.

Well I can tell you now, a 14b awd has been faster then 11.40's on spary.I think it's kind of nice hearing all these things from different people.

ok, well rather than BS, who is it and what's the ET?

Well...with this car its been a grueling string of the typical bad luck DSM bug. First the re vamping of the whole car because it was a hack from the gate, had to re weld the motor mount ear to the block, tear it all down and re do it. Then it blew the HG when we got it up on the road, then the lifters collapsed with the big cams...then we FINALLY had everything on it and running great and the day of the LAST TRACK day at the local drag strip, blew the HG after the EVO 3 intake mani install and final tune. Needless to say it would have been an 11 sec car one way or the other...we were just shooting for the record without using nitrous...didnt happen. But for your viewing pleasure i have listed all mods and some pics. We will be hitting the dyno this weekend to at least get some reassurance that the "project bucket" which has seemingly been festering with demons since we had our hands on it will give us some results that were seeking.

See what you started!!!! Did you think it would get this crazy? I think there's gonna be about 10 new 14b contenders next year.....and a few that have been at it for a while......

 

[SBR Joe]

You mean 110 octane, right?

We sell three different flavors of Sunoco here at Motorstate. I've been running the turbo blue in my 2G all year.



You guys are kicking my ass with your 14b cars. I haven't worked on my 14B 1G all year. But, once it's track worthy, I too will be going after Joe B's "no nitrous" record. I'm building the entire car around that goal.

No its 115. Turbo Blue 115 at the pump.

Looks like we have a whole string of worthy contenders. Game on!

See what you started!!!! Did you think it would get this crazy? I think there's gonna be about 10 new 14b contenders next year.....and a few that have been at it for a while......

HAHAHA i know. Oh well itll just make it more competitive, maybe i should have kept my mouth shut though! HAHA

 

[spoonman]

Are any of you guys going to use an automatic transmission or just me?

 

[TSimage]

This is a turbo you'd definitely go faster on a manual.

 

[awdmonster1904]

Hell yeah buddy! I really hope this bucket doesnt disappoint and brings some competition back!



Hell yeah man! except your car actually looks good! haha.

Also keep in mind that this car is a DD..it may not be the most comfortable of them all, but its driven daily.

And youre very welcome with our support. Im always here to help when i can!



haha i know right! it was gonna hit the track on stock suspension ridin a wheelie to the 60' but we never even made it there. Next year it will be rocked out with some real deal goodies like suspension and much more needed goodies.

Engine bay pic added with some requests

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is that an evo 3 manifold

 

[spoonman]

I used to think the same thing when it came to DSM transmissions, but I have found that with the right modifications you can make an automatic very competitive against manual cars. With a performance rebuild, a shift box, and switching to a AWD manual differential auto's can really put the power through. Another thing that I learned way back when I worked on Mustangs is that if your transmission is warmed up and you cycle gears before you line up, you can make very high off-the-line boost. When the car was running we were consistently getting 18 PSI with the stock torque converter on a 14b, with the right stall it could launch better. The times with the auto are very consistent and I have not seen a lot of auto DSM's transmissions fail. The only negatives are that they are heavier and do rob a little more power.

TSimage isn't the Raven car your building automatic

 

[viprez586]

G'luck man. My car is the same, don't really care how it looks.
It looks like shit and may appear to be slow but tempt the driver behind it and you'll be in a run for your money.
Am I saying my car is the fastest E316G? No, don't care if I am or who is. I built this car to be a fun decently quick DD/ winter car.
I have my other car to look nice, drive smooth and turn on the seat heater when my bum is cold.

 

[99gst_racer]

No its 115. Turbo Blue 115 at the pump.

Oh, I see. The brand Turbo Blue. I was referring to Sunoco's Turbo Blue.

So, how much does that stuff run per gallon?

 

[TSimage]

I used to think the same thing when it came to DSM transmissions, but I have found that with the right modifications you can make an automatic very competitive against manual cars. With a performance rebuild, a shift box, and switching to a AWD manual differential auto's can really put the power through. Another thing that I learned way back when I worked on Mustangs is that if your transmission is warmed up and you cycle gears before you line up, you can make very high off-the-line boost. When the car was running we were consistently getting 18 PSI with the stock torque converter on a 14b, with the right stall it could launch better. The times with the auto are very consistent and I have not seen a lot of auto DSM's transmissions fail. The only negatives are that they are heavier and do rob a little more power.

TSimage isn't the Raven car your building automatic

Yes it is but that's on a gigantic framed turbo (s475) that isn't affected much by the overall drivetrain loss and not to mention I have juice to back it up. Being able to drive the car minus killing parts everytime you punch it overrides the negatives.

With a small turbo like the 14b you really aren't making enough power to justify the use of an auto over a manual. It won't shift much faster at that power level nor is there much of a risk for breaking parts. With an auto you can cut low 60s but that on bottle or with cars that can be stalled at 25+psi. I dunno, just doesn't add up as the wisest choice. I'd be more for the lighter 5spd since at that power level it's all about power to weight ratio.

 

[Phil1320]

I have no qualms with categorizing but where does it end... I don't believe in categorizing records simplyn by the turbo setup. Too tedius and too many differnt turbos. If you do one you gotta do em all... I believe record should be categorized by platform. Awd vs rwd vs fwd and then by type. Manual or auto. Street vs race, Nothing else really matters.

Only reason to make so many categories is so people can tootntheir own horn. I

I disagree. There's a difference between tooting your own horn, and being able to be proud of your accomplishments and share that with people that are interested or have similar goals. To say nothing else matters, you just kicked 99% of all DSMr's in the nuts. But hey, that's cool, we all have our own ideas and opinions about this, it's what makes the world go round.

If that's your car in your avatar than I understand how you came up with YOUR way of classifiying, and that's fine with me. But, you live in a different world. I live in 14b world and have for the 13+ years I've had my talon. And if I ever decide to switch turbos, I'll live in 16G world. I have no aspirations to have a HUGE HP DSM. Yes, I enjoy watching them, and rooting them on, but, that's where it ends.

I think "categorizing" by turbo is pretty relevant. To me platform is less relevant, in race trim anyway, FWD cars pull 60's as good as any AWD, I think the turbo is a more relevant comparo.


In the top 10 quickest DSM's, turbo may not be as relevant because they are all shooting to be the quickest DSM period and are trying anything and everything.


MY OPINION, of course.

 

[SBR Joe]

Oh, I see. The brand Turbo Blue. I was referring to Sunoco's Turbo Blue.

So, how much does that stuff run per gallon?

Its pretty reasonable, its up to like 7.29 a gallon, but lots less then Q16 or C16. Obviously not quite as good, but gets the job done.

is that an evo 3 manifold

No check out the mods list...its one of our HAFE manifolds.

It was once set up for external gate but the bolts broke off in it so i had to make a plate and weld it shut!

 

[TSimage]

I disagree. There's a difference between tooting your own horn, and being able to be proud of your accomplishments and share that with people that are interested or have similar goals. To say nothing else matters, you just kicked 99% of all DSMr's in the nuts. But hey, that's cool, we all have our own ideas and opinions about this, it's what makes the world go round.

If that's your car in your avatar than I understand how you came up with YOUR way of classifiying, and that's fine with me. But, you live in a different world. I live in 14b world and have for the 13+ years I've had my talon. And if I ever decide to switch turbos, I'll live in 16G world. I have no aspirations to have a HUGE HP DSM. Yes, I enjoy watching them, and rooting them on, but, that's where it ends.

I think "categorizing" by turbo is pretty relevant. To me platform is less relevant, in race trim anyway, FWD cars pull 60's as good as any AWD, I think the turbo is a more relevant comparo.


In the top 10 quickest DSM's, turbo may not be as relevant because they are all shooting to be the quickest DSM period and are trying anything and everything.


MY OPINION, of course.

Then let's make a list for the 100 different turbos and all the fastest guys... see the problem?. You tried to limit it first. I just said your catagorizing is flawed. If you do one Turbo you do them all and that's ridiculous. The ones I mentioned are similar to how other groups do it.

 

[Nate Crisman]

Then let's make a list for the 100 different turbos and all the fastest guys... see the problem?. You tried to limit it first. I just said your catagorizing is flawed. If you do one Turbo you do them all and that's ridiculous. The ones I mentioned are similar to how other groups do it.

I don't know why, but you don't seem to see any middle ground between no catagorization in which Tony Schumacher's 4.428 is the time to beat or having a record for every turbo option:

• fastest stock 14b
• fastest ported 14b
• fastest ported/clipped 14b
• fastest 14b with 7cm housing
• fastest 14b with internal gate
• fastest 14b with external gate
• fastest 14b with polished compressor housing

There IS a middle ground and the general consensus over the years within the community has been that a 14B record has "some" significance because it's the turbo that came stock

16G' records were deemed interesting because it was such a common upgrade and a sort of equalizer since the turbo was so standard.

Few are interested in who has the fastest FPgreen car compared to SCM5031's or T3T4 varients for the most part simply because there are so few people with the exact same setup.

That's just the way it is. If you don't want to recognize any categorical records as significant, that's fine. But the community at large has deemed the splits of 14b/16g/everything else as the way.


Does professional boxing have a single "title" that everyone has to strive for? Do they break down the classes by the ounce?
No, they have a middle ground catagorization. Pretty much the same for any sport or racing.

 

[Phil1320]

I don't know why, but you don't seem to see any middle ground between no catagorization in which Tony Schumacher's 4.428 is the time to beat or having a record for every turbo option:

• fastest stock 14b
• fastest ported 14b
• fastest ported/clipped 14b
• fastest 14b with 7cm housing
• fastest 14b with internal gate
• fastest 14b with external gate
• fastest 14b with polished compressor housing

There IS a middle ground and the general consensus over the years within the community has been that a 14B record has "some" significance because it's the turbo that came stock

16G' records were deemed interesting because it was such a common upgrade and a sort of equalizer since the turbo was so standard.

Few are interested in who has the fastest FPgreen car compared to SCM5031's or T3T4 varients for the most part simply because there are so few people with the exact same setup.

That's just the way it is. If you don't want to recognize any categorical records as significant, that's fine. But the community at large has deemed the splits of 14b/16g/everything else as the way.


Does professional boxing have a single "title" that everyone has to strive for? Do they break down the classes by the ounce?
No, they have a middle ground catagorization. Pretty much the same for any sport or racing.

Without a doubt. Well stated. Props!

 

[TSimage]

Well said because he agrees with you? Because the boxing anology didn't translate to the point he's making it worked well for mine however because breaking down the catgegories like boxing instill a "span" where as categorizing it per turbo would be a "specific" like only 159lbs not 140-160. Many recognize a small turbo vs big turbo such as 20/18g and lower then middle guys being 50 to 35r and big guys up from there but it is what it is. I never said I cared. My issues is one can't determine the limits of a classification. If some one wants to say they have the fastest 14b then who is to argue if someone wants to say they have the 2g awd record? If one matters they all do in essence which is fine by me.

 

[SBR INC]

I don't know why, but you don't seem to see any middle ground between no catagorization in which Tony Schumacher's 4.428 is the time to beat or having a record for every turbo option:

• fastest stock 14b
• fastest ported 14b
• fastest ported/clipped 14b
• fastest 14b with 7cm housing
• fastest 14b with internal gate
• fastest 14b with external gate
• fastest 14b with polished compressor housing

There IS a middle ground and the general consensus over the years within the community has been that a 14B record has "some" significance because it's the turbo that came stock

16G' records were deemed interesting because it was such a common upgrade and a sort of equalizer since the turbo was so standard.

Few are interested in who has the fastest FPgreen car compared to SCM5031's or T3T4 varients for the most part simply because there are so few people with the exact same setup.

That's just the way it is. If you don't want to recognize any categorical records as significant, that's fine. But the community at large has deemed the splits of 14b/16g/everything else as the way.


Does professional boxing have a single "title" that everyone has to strive for? Do they break down the classes by the ounce?
No, they have a middle ground catagorization. Pretty much the same for any sport or racing.

Nate - is that really you?

DAMN - !!

Call me some time!

Mike Huml

 

[SBR Joe]

Nate - is that really you?

DAMN - !!

Call me some time!

Mike Huml

Get some info from him mike! hes gonna be my competition!!

 

[bullettdsm]

Mike Huml

Lol and Mike being a newbie with one post

MB

 

[Phil1320]

Well said because he agrees with you? Because the boxing anology didn't translate to the point he's making it worked well for mine however because breaking down the catgegories like boxing instill a "span" where as categorizing it per turbo would be a "specific" like only 159lbs not 140-160. Many recognize a small turbo vs big turbo such as 20/18g and lower then middle guys being 50 to 35r and big guys up from there but it is what it is. I never said I cared. My issues is one can't determine the limits of a classification. If some one wants to say they have the fastest 14b then who is to argue if someone wants to say they have the 2g awd record? If one matters they all do in essence which is fine by me.

Well said because I said so. I don't know what your point is up here really. Your TSimage ain't the same as mine. End of story. Have fun with all of your future analyzing.

 

[TSimage]

Figures. carry on.

 

[Phil1320]

...it's a ghost town in here so suddenly...