2G Spyder 4g64 Hybrid Turbo

[CrackedDSM]

They don't sell adjustable gears for the 4G64. I have the info somewhere for adjustable gears but it's like 1/2 tooth out for both gears makes it dead on.


It's somewhere floating around here though. Search 4G64 DOHC cam gears or some variation. Should be able to find it.

 

[Dericsh]

There seems to be useful information in this thread.

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/cam-gear-question-on-2-4l-4g64.541037/

 

[alexr254]

They don't sell adjustable gears for the 4G64. I have the info somewhere for adjustable gears but it's like 1/2 tooth out for both gears makes it dead on.


It's somewhere floating around here though. Search 4G64 DOHC cam gears or some variation. Should be able to find it.

Yep, thanks i did stumble upon that information. I wasnt sure if both cam gears are identical or not. Because i was sent identical ones.
The 1/2 tooth advance with the 4g63 gears i did know about. But am sure will still be a pain for me. Will cross that bridge when i get there

I think adjustable cam gears may be a better choice anyway.

 

[spyderdrifter]

If you don't have the specific DOHC 4g64 cam gears, you will need to make your own timing marks. You will also need to use a DOHC 4g64 timing belt from a 94 Galant with that engine combination. I bought one from RockAuto for my friend's 4g64 build that I'm working on.

 

[alexr254]

So pretty. (I think I’m going insane)

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[alexr254]

If you don't have the specific DOHC 4g64 cam gears, you will need to make your own timing marks. You will also need to use a DOHC 4g64 timing belt from a 94 Galant with that engine combination. I bought one from RockAuto for my friend's 4g64 build that I'm working on.

Would the stock 4g63 gears be just as well as adjustable 4g63 gears?

I am familiar with the 1/2 tooth advancement required and the 4g64 DOHC timing belt. The 4g64 DOHC gears are impossible to find.

I'm also confused which CAS I should get.
Will a green top be ok? Or should I go black top?
Is 1g ok, or should I go with a 2g CAS?

So many contradicting articles...

Would this harness work for me if I used a 1g CAS?

Sheridan CAS Harness for 1G DSM in a 2G 1995-1996 Swap (HAR-1G2G95)

Sheridan Engineering CAS harness will adapt a 1G cam angle sensor into a 1995-1996 DSM, perfect for 1G engine swaps. It connects at the CAS and then plugs into the 2G cam and crank sensor connectors.

stmtuned.com

 

[DSMPT]

Would the stock 4g63 gears be just as well as adjustable 4g63 gears?

I am familiar with the 1/2 tooth advancement required and the 4g64 DOHC timing belt. The 4g64 DOHC gears are impossible to find.

First at least you have to understand what you are doing. Otherwise you would be confused more and more because people would keep telling you different and wrong answers by mixing up.
You would technically require to retard the valve timing (cams) against the original 4g63 valve timing, not advance. But if you would need to advance or retard at the last would depend on the way you would use to set the timing.
You can't adjust the valve timing less than a cam gear tooth (7.5°) by using the stock cam gears. That's why you would need aftermarket adjustable gears or modifying the stock 4g63 gears to make your own ones if you don't have the stock 4g64 DOHC cam gears.

And the 1/2 tooth is just approximately for general purpose. This could be 3/4, could be 1/4 etc etc, depending on the condition of the engine/head components you use. To know exactly how many degrees you would need to adjust, you will have to degree cams by using a degree wheel and a dial indicator.

Options you have :
1 : Use the stock 4g64 DOHC cam gears.
2 : Use the 4g63 stock cam gears by machining a new dowel pin hole.
3 : Use 4g63 aftermarket adjustable cam gears.

 

[alexr254]

First at least you have to understand what you are doing. Otherwise you would be confused more and more because people would keep telling you different and wrong answers by mixing up.
You would technically require to retard the valve timing (cams) against the original 4g63 valve timing, not advance. But if you would need to advance or retard at the last would depend on the way you would use to set the timing.
You can't adjust the valve timing less than a cam gear tooth (7.5°) by using the stock cam gears. That's why you would need aftermarket adjustable gears or modifying the stock 4g63 gears to make your own ones if you don't have the stock 4g64 DOHC cam gears.

And the 1/2 tooth is just approximately for general purpose. This could be 3/4, could be 1/4 etc etc, depending on the condition of the engine/head components you use. To know exactly how many degrees you would need to adjust, you will have to degree cams by using a degree wheel and a dial indicator.

Options you have :
1 : Use the stock 4g64 DOHC cam gears.
2 : Use the 4g63 stock cam gears by machining a new dowel pin hole.
3 : Use 4g63 aftermarket adjustable cam gears.

To be fair if I knew everything I had to do I wouldn’t be asking here.
I understand enough to be confident I can get it done.
Also this is the first time I am doing this exact thing.
So I misspoke, not advance 1/2 tooth, retard a 1/2 tooth. Funny how every thread i read says advance...
Anyway i will go by the images.

Adjustable cam gears are what I need. Got it, thanks.

I will understand better as soon as I get started.
For now I’m just collecting parts.

 

[alexr254]

Can anyone suggest an oil return kit?
I don’t mind on modifying my existing oil pan. But not sure which kit is the known to be good.

 

[JohntyBee]

When I had a factory 2G turbo oil pan on my car I used either the factory oil return line for a 1G/2G, I don’t remember because it’s been so long. When I went to my HX35, I switched over to Vibrant Performance push-lock fittings and their hose to make my own return

 

[alexr254]

Is the ARP head stud kit worth it? Or am i overthinking and just go with bolts?

 

[Dericsh]

Studs are worth it, just the regular ones will do for your goals (not the extra expensive L19).

 

[Spleen8urLSX]

I would for cheap reassurance. Felpro composite gasket and standard ARP’s will go a long way. Might not be necessary to do studs for your goals but it’s a good “why not while you’re in there anyway” type of deal.

 

[JohntyBee]

Doesn’t hurt to have while you’re already in the process. You won’t have to worry about it later on unless you decide to go L19s far down the line

 

[alexr254]

Another dumb question by me. Sorry
Im doing the knock sensor wiring now. In the link for adding the turbo ECU to a 4G64 Spyder it mentions to ground the shielding wire.
Please excuse my ignorance but what is the shielding wire?
The knock sensor has 2 wires red/black. I am assuming by the shielding wire he is refering to the black wire?
Am i way off?

I think i am way off. I probably should get some shielded wire. Instead of using the standard automotive wire for this.

 

[Spleen8urLSX]

Another dumb question by me. Sorry
Im doing the knock sensor wiring now. In the link for adding the turbo ECU to a 4G64 Spyder it mentions to ground the shielding wire.
Please excuse my ignorance but what is the shielding wire?
The knock sensor has 2 wires red/black. I am assuming by the shielding wire he is refering to the black wire?
Am i way off?

I can’t speak on a 2g however 1g’s were done the same way. The ground literally ran to a wire shielding (shielded wire) on a factory turbo car, however you don’t have to do it that way. On 1g nt’s we didn’t have this shielded ground to get into, therefore when I didn mine I ran the ground wire on the pigtail I added to a spot under the dash that made for a good ground point and the signal (red) wire to the detonation sensor pin in the ecu connector. Ground just simply has to go to a good ground. I’ve also fixed a few other 1g’s this way that were indeed factory turbo cars but the wire got brittle and fell apart there. If you wanted to be as much like how the factory did it as possible sure, but otherwise you don’t need to solder your ground wire to that shielding.

 

[alexr254]

Thank you!
I think I understand better what I need to do

 

[alexr254]

So far what I’m the most confused about is when I get to the turbo.
I am just not sure how all the tubing will be run.
My fuse panel is in the way of most setups I see. And looking into moving the fuse panel - that is a huge project in itself and if I can avoid doing that I will.
I’m just not sure how all tubing will be run..

 

[alexr254]

Leaning towards this turbo.
Just not 100% sure about the wastegate and the oil feed/returns.
My feed will need to be from the head. And I will make the return hole in my existing oil pan.

EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts

www.extremepsi.com

 

[Dashnizzle]

Hey i was the guy that started that post about the 4g64 cam gears. going strong now 1000 miles on this 4g64 build. If you have any questions about the timing let me know. Also for your turbo selection keep in mind your bigger displacement will spool turbos quicker than you think so going a bit bigger probably wont hurt just my $0.02.

edit: just saw your fuel mods, may need more upgrades first

 

[August578]

If you have any questions you can dm me! Or just ask here. I also went through the process of turboing mine. Running 19psi strong!

I skimmed through your thread but here are some answers to your questions if you were still configuring your plan. I might’ve missed some.

For fuel injectors if you don’t already have them. I just ordered high impedance fuel injectors. Skips the wiring of the resistor box. So it will be plug and play. I’m running high impedance fic 1000cc

For the knock sensor I basically just grounded the black with a ring connector. Simple stuff.

Lowk for the oil pan just get a turbo one. I picked on up at the junkyard for 20$ so you don’t have to deal with tapping etc etc. But they are literally the exact same just with a return line port. Plug and play.

Not 100% sure but I think the water pump is fine for the dohc. Never saw anyone say they had any issues but I could be wrong.but I think it's the same as a 63

Also I think you can just get early galant dohc cam gears, galant hg, and galant timing belt. And the dohc head should be drop in. I think it's the 1994 one and I'm not sure if mitsu parts direct still has it. But they might.

Also for the dohc swap if you are using the stock rad, you will have to get a flexible hose or a custom one since the 4g64 is a different rad from the 63. Only the upper hose, nothing major. They sell them at autozone.

For oil supply line I just have it from the oil pump. It’s already threaded, I thinks it’s like the the 1g. I think fp sells the line and adapter. So it's also plug and play

I think extreme psi has a oil return kit, this is for the 2g turbo pans tho. It's a an AN line you cut to size and obviously bolts up to the 2g turbo pan. Made thinks simpler for me.

For turbo I’m running a green uhf 20g I used to run a ebay 16g. Honestly the 16g is instant spool and torquey lots of fun. But can def feel it fall flat at top end. It might be Bcuz I'm sohc that also plays role.

But versus the 20g I can tell it doesn't run out of breath as easily and kind of glides through the power band.The 20g feels a little less torquey and not as neck snappy but is 100% faster and doesn't fall so easily.

The 16g will 1000% be fine but like dashnizzle said the 2.4 spools pretty fast. The spool time between a 16g and 20g are about the same but the power band lasts longer on the 20g which means it's a bit faster.

16g is fun when you first hit it but kinda falls, the 20g isn't as “neck snappy” but I feel like wins more races.

I'd imagine anything below a 16g will run out of breath way too quickly.

If you aren't going t3 the next cheapest option I think will be a fp manifold or a 2g stock ported. You can get them for also like 20$ at junkyard and have it ported or run it nok ported if your tryna save $

You can call me lazy . But for the fuse box I just unbolted it and zip tied it front of my intake next to my rad. It gets a little toasty but survives.

Oh yeah for last problem, for intercooler piping Ima say only one thing.

With a 16g, it's a b*tch. F* j-pipes, especially if your running a fmic. I also had weird fitment issues with my 16g intercooler pipes. If you have a traditionally short route j pipe, it absolutely does not fit, there is no clearance with the j-pipe and rad fan. This is a big warning.

I ended getting a driver side firing j pipe since I'm running my fmic around through my fog lamps, but even then it didnt fit, without cutting it weird. It was also a really really tight fit with the stock fans. I actually had to dremel out a few mms from the plastic.

It's a tight squeeze with the sohc for the j-pipe bolts too, but if your using a dohc head the bolts should be easier but you will prob still have some clearance issues as the pipe literally sits in the middle of the front engine mount roll stop area and fan.

I'll be honest I got sick of it and bought a 20g that has a down firing cover. But the 16g is 100% doable with a few cuss words and some cutting of the pipe and fan. But I recommend finding a drive side firing j-pipe, they don't sell it anymore by itself, I found mine on the classifieds.

I think punishment racing or cx racing makes a intercooler kit with the j pipe included but Im not sure on the fitment with this.

Or you make your own j-pipe if your good at that stuff.

I also ended up getting a universal intercooler pipe kit from Amazon and messed with angles and couplers and it worked out decently for me. The angles will be a little tight but you ca definitely make it work because it did for me.

If you got money 100% go with some custom fab intercooler pipes, it will save headaches from figuring out fitment and weird angles that creates boost leaks.

Also fun fact or myth is I think the max limit for the 64 is around 25 or 24psi boost. Or anything about 400 torque on stock bottom end.

But normally a lot of people keep it around the 350 area more or less according to the 3g forums. But even then a lot of the posts about it on here and there are very very dated. So I'm not sure what its actually like.

But this only from what I've read. But I'm starting to see more stories of otherwise maybe.

I've heard people say it's about the same limits of a 63. Or so and so.

I've read and know a guy who has run his 64 at 23psi for a couple years and as a daily driver.

A new topic I want to talk about is the k24 vs the 4g64 with a dohc.

IM not an EXPERT and nor did I research this heavy at all. But how come the k24 can be pushed higher than a 4g64 with “i think” a similar or stronger bottom end than a k24. I could be wrong about bottom end strength like piston etc etc wise. But the k24 is n/a but does well boosted. Obv ringland etc etc come to play.

 

[alexr254]

Also fun fact or myth is I think the max limit for the 64 is around 25 or 24psi boost. Or anything about 400 torque on stock bottom end.

But normally a lot of people keep it around the 350 area more or less according to the 3g forums. But even then a lot of the posts about it on here and there are very very dated. So I'm not sure what its actually like.

But this only from what I've read. But I'm starting to see more stories of otherwise maybe.

I've heard people say it's about the same limits of a 63. Or so and so.

I've read and know a guy who has run his 64 at 23psi for a couple years and as a daily driver.

A new topic I want to talk about is the k24 vs the 4g64 with a dohc.

IM not an EXPERT and nor did I research this heavy at all. But how come the k24 can be pushed higher than a 4g64 with “i think” a similar or stronger bottom end than a k24. I could be wrong about bottom end strength like piston etc etc wise. But the k24 is n/a but does well boosted. Obv ringland etc etc come to play.

Wow thanks!
Lots of great info, i really appreciate it.

For now i think i will stick with the 16G. Being with stock bottom i dont want to over push it and i dont plan on racing it.

For the pipes, i do have a pipe bender. I do figure this part is going to be a real pain.
Im not great with welding, so i hope i dont need to do any of that. If i knew the exact hose and pipe sizes (diameter) i need it would help a ton.

I am using 680CC injectors with a resistor pack. Being fed by a hardwired and module bypassed walbro 255lph fuel pump.
I already ordered some shielded 18g wire. I guess ill just use that for the knock sensor and figure why not, ill just ground the shield and negative together for it.

Is there any benefit of using the oil filter housing as the oil feed rather then the head?
Local yards here really have zero 2G parts. So for me removing my oil pan drilling/tapping it i think is better. I already have all the tools. And ive over spent on this project already, so any parts i can save on by DIY i will

I havent even begun digging into how to tune yet. Thats going to be a ton to digest.

 

[JohntyBee]

One of the ports on the OFH is filtered and the oil pressure is pretty constant

 

[August578]

Here are some pictures of the dimensions.

Also for the oil filter, like johnty bee said, the oil pressure is is basically right from the pump and it's just really easy to install I guess. It's just a screw on. And it's freshly filtered if you go to that port.

Scott laird on youtube makes a good playlist of how to tune with ecm link. Its pretty simple and if you just binge his videos you will learn it easily.

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[alexr254]

Here are some pictures of the dimensions.

Also for the oil filter, like johnty bee said, the oil pressure is is basically right from the pump and it's just really easy to install I guess. It's just a screw on. And it's freshly filtered if you go to that port.

Scott laird on youtube makes a good playlist of how to tune with ecm link. Its pretty simple and if you just binge his videos you will learn it easily.

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I’m a little confused still about the oil feed from the filter housing.
Am I going to need a housing from a turbo?
I don’t see anywhere a feed can hook up to my current oil filter housing.
Or does the kit you mentioned tap into it somehow?