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2G [SOLVED] Evo3 16G rebuild not going as planned

Posted by Kryndon, Dec 30, 2019

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  1. Kryndon

    Kryndon Proven Member

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    Trying to rebuild my evo 3 16G with a superback rebuild kit (UK made). Before disassembly, I scribed the shaft, nut and compressor wheel since they were balanced as a whole unit by the looks of it. Here are the issues:

    1. I could not remove those two inner retaining clips. All I could fit in there is a small flathead screwdriver but I don't see how I need to bend or twist it to come out. I feared I might scratch the bearing surfaces too much so I just let the old ones stay.
    IMG_1354.JPG

    2. The larger diameter thrust collar (18mm) looks to be too close to the edge. I tried pushing down on it even further and rotating it with my fingers, and it does rotate but I'm not sure how it should feel. I was told that machining of the housing should not be needed to make this upgraded collar fit.
    IMG_1355.JPG
    IMG_1356.JPG

    3. Even though I scribed all 3 components initially, I'm finding it very hard to both hold the turbine wheel in place, while trying to line up the shaft with the nut and compressor. When I align them all then try to hand snug the nut, then when I try to do the 1/4 turn to tighten it, the nut grabs onto the compressor and moves it out of alignment. Is there a magic way of re-aligning everything and tightening it? Here's how it looked before removal.
    IMG_1339.JPG

    4. Now, in addition to the problem in point 3, the biggest issue is that even after I tighten it all down (nut compressor shaft), trying to rotate it by hand is hard. It definitely doesn't move as freely as before taking it off. Granted, I did use this type of chain lube which also works for assembling stuff. It's kind of thick but very similar to normal assembly lube. Could it be from that? The thing is, if I try to rotate it one full revolution, it gets really hard to turn at one point, then becomes a bit more free again. Also, if I lined my eyes with the surface of the compressor housing where the compressor wheel rides against, I could see one side of the wheel dipping slightly each revolution in the exact same spot. I highly doubt it's a bent shaft or impeller. Both the snap rings snapped easily in place, so it's not that either. My worry is if that thrust collar is trying to rotate with the assembly and binding up, or if the oil seal plate is not equally pushed down by the circlip. Here's a picture:
    IMG_1358.JPG
    IMG_1359.JPG

    I stopped at this point, my fingers froze off anyway. I would really appreciate any pointers to what might be happening or if I may have done something wrong.
     

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  2. iceguru1114

    iceguru1114 Proven Member

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    This comment is really concerning. This could mean that you either have a bent shaft, or an overly tight tolerance between something that's rotating and something that's stationary, ie) back of comp wheel and thrust collar or something similar.

    Regarding the rebuild technique, take a look here to see if you missed anything:

    PART 1: https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/td05h-td06-turbo-rebuild-part-1.303828/

    PART 2: https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/td05h-td06-turbo-rebuild-part-2.303829/

    Good luck!
     

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  3. Kryndon

    Kryndon Proven Member

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    That's the guide I was following, I know that JusMX is the go to guy when it comes to turbos. The reason why I don't think it's a bent shaft is because before taking it all apart, it spun freely. It had slight side to side play with no leaks or anything but I decided to rebuild it just to be prepared.

    I also made sure to clean everything as I went and was careful not to damage the two snap rings. I'm doubting if this assembly lube I used could be a bit too thick, but that wouldn't cause the rotating assembly to bind and dip at a specific point.
     

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    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
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  4. silvreclips

    silvreclips Proven Member

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    1. It's ok to reuse the snap rings.

    2. I just installed a rebuild kit with a larger thrust bearing and had to grind some on the housing. This may be your problem.

    Get the lines as close as possible.
     

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  5. Steve93Talon

    Steve93Talon Proven Member

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    You definitely need to grind down the housing to clear the larger thrust collar. You may have already bent the shaft if you tightened everything down like that.
     

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  6. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

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    Try it with the original thrust bearing to see if it spins freely.
     

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  7. Kryndon

    Kryndon Proven Member

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    Firstly, thanks to everyone for the suggestions! I fully disassembled it today and went over everything. Now, I'm not sure what exactly fixed it, but it may be a combination of the following:

    I decided to try and grind the edge with the tools I had, not much, but now the thrust collar seems to sit a bit lower and spins more freely than before. It doesn't rub against the edge at all!

    I also mixed my assembly lube with some engine oil to make it more viscous, but still stick to the parts for initial startup.

    I managed to fish out the two snap rings and installed the ones that came with the kit. The new ones seem to be just a tad thinner and more flexible, maybe more brittle? The original ones are shiny and from stainless steel I'd presume. But they were slightly bent so I had no choice; let's hope the new rings stay in their place.

    Lastly, I noticed that the bearing that sits inside the oil shield wasn't sitting right. I think the snap ring that sits in it was being a nuisance, had to snap it back in again.

    Here's a picture of how much I ground away, and also a video of rotating the assembly by hand. Halfway through I stopped holding back the rear shield so it was rubbing against it but that's fine, it gets pressed by the hot side anyway. Didn't have time to test drive it as it went past 9 PM and apparently it's about to be New Year.. Gonna rip on the car so f***ing hard tomorrow for giving me this much trouble I swear! :tease::talon:
    IMG_1364.JPG
     

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    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
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  8. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

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    Bumping a 6-month old thread with a couple key notes for info- marking the shaft/nut/wheel only matters if you're also marking and re-using the original thrust parts as the balance grind on the locknut is from a previous VSR balance of the fully-assembled turbo at operating speed that is correcting for stackup unbalance of previously-balanced parts which are now assembled and torqued/loaded. Once the turbo is disassembled and the existing thrust parts are discarded, you should be starting fresh with a new nut and should also get the rotating assembly rebalanced to correct for stackup unbalance...ESPECIALLY if the thrust parts are aftermarket. Putting the same nut back on may be moving the correction to a new location where it doesn't need to be anymore. If your OEM shaft nut doesn't have a visible balance grind by all means re-use the existing nut...I've found the machined surfaces on aftermarket shaft nuts to be rather inconsistent at times.



    Also, you don't need to remove the factory snap rings from the journal bores unless you're honing the journals to remove grooving or bearing transfer. Most of the time during a typical re-seal service the journal bores are pretty clean.

    And yes, increasing the diameter of the thrust collar also means the bearing housing will need to be clearanced in some cases as well. Most aftermarket bearing housings are already cut with plenty of clearance so this is typically only on Genuine MHI housings receiving upgraded thrust parts.
     

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