Street Build Resurrection of the Red 90 Talon

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

No I never have. I use MORE BOOST to get the charge into the cylinder
On a NA motor it does help gulp more air/fuel, so on my domestic builds (without a turbo or SC) I do tend to use the largest valves I can without too many mods. It is always helpful on performance but harder on the wallet at the gas station.

 

[BLACK'98DSM]

+1mm valves actually make a huge difference in the 420a's, especially if paired with proper port work. I was hesitant to purchase them at first because it seemed like such a minimal oversize, but have not regretted. Not only were those larger but have less dish to bump the compression ratio. I'd say they're a better upgrade than any one bolt on modification. I've never been able to calculate the MPG since I hardly put mileage on the engine, but it's totally atrocious for a 2 liter . Perhaps valve size isn't much of a concern when you can simply raise boost pressure, but a good assistance to airflow with or without forced induction

 

[Spleen8urLSX]

Ever consider going +1mm on the valves? Curious as to thoughts on this. ( Pros and cons). One of the few parts I still need for the head.

As others mentioned it’s worth it on an n/an application but nothing another pound or 2 of boost won’t make up for. To put it into perspective there’s a good handful of guys that have went 8s and quicker on stock valves, let alone oversized ones, not a weak point on the 4g63.

 

[DreamChaser7]

Good info thanks for the input. You may have your thread back Marty. Unless you want to give me your input of what valves would pair well with the GSC S2's and Kiggly High Pressure beehives I already have? Was going to buy Ferreas.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I like Supertech because they are nitrided but GSC, Ferreas, Manley are all good companies.
I think it is personal preference but there may be some advantages to one over another. I went back with Supertech because when I lost my timing belt, those valves had a necked down area after the guide (from the guide area to the valve head for better flow) and that area BENT instead of poking holes in my pistons when it happened. Now the others may be the exact same way, but I have had good luck and will stay with them for my builds.

 

[DreamChaser7]

I like Supertech because they are nitrided but GSC, Ferreas, Manley are all good companies.
I think it is personal preference but there may be some advantages to one over another. I went back with Supertech because when I lost my timing belt, those valves had a necked down area after the guide (from the guide area to the valve head for better flow) and that area BENT instead of poking holes in my pistons when it happened. Now the others may be the exact same way, but I have had good luck and will stay with them for my builds.

Thanks Marty I always value your opinions. My first build so all going to be experimental this time around.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Glad to try and be "helpful" as much as possible

 

[1cleangsx]

Your one of the BEST at that Marty

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Well I got the head back today from my machinist (thank you Larry) at a very reasonable cost. Very nice finish for the MLS head gasket. I need to give her a compressed air blow for the little bits of aluminum that you always find after a surfacing, then a bath and I can start the reassembly process! It really looks nice!

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Since I got the cylinder head back, I am trying to do a little at a time of cleaning and recleaning then, before I knew it, it was time to install the new valve seals, so I did and put the Kiggly race springs seats in. Boy I had forgot how much beefier they were!
NICE!!!
Pictures, cause we all like pictures!
Marty

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Well, I decided to put the Kiggly Springs on and during test fitting, I had 1 Manley keeper go "ting" and it went and hung out with the 10mm sockets......I tore the whole head back down looking for it, No Bueno so I ordered up a whole dam set of 16. Pisses me off more that I can't FIND the dam thing than anything else (well except the fact that I can't just buy ONE). I will be keeping an eye out but so far, fk me. Everything else turned out just fine, I'm just ticked off. I got some pictures. The spring with the green dots has stock keepers so I know which one to change out. It is probably just fine but I hate mismatched parts, so it is what it is.
I'll put 2 Manley locks on when the extra set shows up this next week.
Marty

 

[pat white]

Free at last !! ...you know how it is ..just when you install the new ones you will find this ones hiding place

 

[fourgsixty3]

I would turn the world upside down to find it. At the very least I'd make sure it wasn't in the head somewhere like in one of the springs.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

That's so dam true Pat! My son assisted me in the "search" and also on the complete tear down looking. He said if I ordered another, I would find that one after they came in and, you know, that would be a relief on my mind. We tore it all apart, turned it upside down, ran a magnet over EVERYTHING and it's still hiding. I am upset that I didn't put a rag over the spring tool cup to contain any "mishaps". Stupid silly shit pisses me off. Major stuff, I get and deal with.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I would turn the world upside down to find it. At the very least I'd make sure it wasn't in the head somewhere like in one of the springs.

I had every valve/spring/spring seat out. The only thing I didn't take apart was the valve seals. I DO feel like you just said.
My son grabbed a flashlight and we looked thru every spring but I didn't look UNDER the seal, between it and the guide (but did have my magnet all over that area and every other spot). I WILL take take spring back off and quadruple check it. I just don't want parts floating around this expensive motor.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

UPDATE
After another EXTENSIVE search of the assembly room.....I spotted it more than 4 feet away, in the bathroom, can you see it????
I am trying to cancel my order of 16 more, but I feel so much better that IDC if they ship or not.
It ISN'T hiding with the 10mm sockets tho...
Marty

 

[We're on Boost]

I spotted it more than 4 feet away, in the bathroom, can you see it????

Oh it's color coded to match your carpet. How nice!

 

[92Turbski]

UPDATE
After another EXTENSIVE search of the assembly room.....I spotted it more than 4 feet away, in the bathroom, can you see it????
I am trying to cancel my order of 16 more, but I feel so much better that IDC if they ship or not.
It ISN'T hiding with the 10mm sockets tho...
Marty

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Whoa, dude, that's insane you guys found that! Woohoooo!

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

All good now. Final shots. I am only using Manley keepers for peace of mind.

 

[pat white]

Wicked ...I guess it was waiting to surprise the crap out of you

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

It was BUGGING the shit outta me, obviously. I am "relieved" that it was finally recovered. I heard it go "ting" as it exited, but never heard it hit anything. My son was working on an SBC intake and didn't hear it at all. Pretty sure the lesson learned here is to cover the opening on the Euro tool head to prevent this issue.
This all happened while we were trying to film the difference in vacuum on the valves before and after springs were installed. That video timed out so I can just tell you all that YES they seal super good with springs on. The exhaust side is bleeding down slowly, but after a few hundred smacks on the seats, they will be fine. That would be about 15-20 seconds running at 1000 rpms and I am very happy with the home work results. The machine shop only did the resurface for $50 so I am sure I saved some money and know all the specs on the head like I do on the block. Now I need to record all the stuff I know for future reference.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Just "playing".with "bling" that covers up other "bling"....

 

[BLACK'98DSM]

Out of curiosity, what came in that Vevor box? I've been seeing a lot of their products recently. I was concerned the heaters were china junk but people have good things to say about them.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Yeah Solomon, that box is what my vacuum pump ($56.00 - Amazon) came in for the valve seal checking setup I made.

 

[curt-s]

Carpet in the bathroom, Marty? tsk tsk


Although that probably stopped the keeper from bouncing around completely out of sight.