opinions needed - Remove balance shafts?

[Bigmike4g63t]

Need some input. I am accumulating the parts to do a lot of work at once. If I am doing the timing belt, water pump, clutch and flywheel at the same time would it make sense to go ahead and remove the rear balance shaft? Also, what all seals/gaskets should be replaced while all of that is taken apart and easy to get to. I am pretty sure everything is original to this car as it only has 75,000 miles on it.

 

[99dsmer4g63]

I personally run without the balance shafts. I have oem replacement mounts with less than 1k miles on them.

I can tell 100% that the balance shafts are not there. I notice mostly at idle though as the car is much more buzzy and the steering wheel vibrates more.

i installed stage 2 cams afterwords and they didn’t help the idle vibrations along with a the full 3 inch exhaust.

If you’re a creature comfort type of guy keep them. If you’re looking for that raw racecar feel delete them. My car is a toy now not a commuter or dd anymore. If I want a smooth quiet ride I’ll take my ranger or the wife’s daily. So it depends on how you plan to use the car. From what I’ve gathered from your posts I think you want to keep them IMO.

With that being said I wouldn’t change my decision to delete them if I knew how the car would feel. I also think that flywheel and clutch choice plays a role in how the car reacts to it as well.

I intend on installing a fluid damper crank pulley and torque solutions motor mounts in the coming year with hopes that the fluid damper will help counter act with the stiffer mounts.

I took my mom for a cruise and she instantly said why is it so buzzy. I said tell me if you still feel the buzzy after this 2-4 pull.

Now she just worries anytime she knows I’m in the car cruising .

-Daniel

 

[CrackedDSM]

Took my 70 year old grandmother for a ride in my old 1G that had the BS deleted and rode on Tein S-Techs and she commented how comfortable the car was.

Mine was automatic though. Maybe there's something to that clutch/flywheel comment.

 

[Bigmike4g63t]

I got the oem part numbers and have found all the parts. I may use a gates water pump. I guess I will also replace the front seal and cam seals when I do it.

Yea, you guys have convinced me to keep the balance shafts.

 

[chrysler kid]

Engine guys:
you need to have a rubber harmonic balancer to reduce damage to the crank from vibrations

Also engine guys:
Im going to delete the balance shaft that helps the engine not to vibrate

Help me understand.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Its a double edged sword. It will be "buzzier" no matter what if you remove the shafts. If that doesn't bother you, then take out the shafts for less chance of a failure down the road. If you change belts on the normal schedule, all should be fine. The balancer having a rubber insulator really only keeps the belts from flying off, its not much of a "balancer" TBH.

 

[steve]

Help me understand.

They act on different types of vibrations in both scale and direction.
Harmonic Damper - rotational forces.
Balance Shafts - vertical forces.

Harmonic damper - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Balance shaft - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[99dsmer4g63]

Engine guys:
you need to have a rubber harmonic balancer to reduce damage to the crank from vibrations

Also engine guys:
Im going to delete the balance shaft that helps the engine not to vibrate

Help me understand.

Maybe when you spin a balance shaft bearing and you have to remove the engine to replace it you will understand.

Kinda sucks when you have a motor with good compression and it’s unable to be ran because some bearing spun that has nothing to do with the actual rotating assembly.

Not to mention now the motor just ingested bearing material from something that doesn’t have to be there: I chose to remove it and then deal with the side effects.

As stated this is a to each their own type of thing so you don’t need to understand I guess.

-Daniel

 

[chrysler kid]

They act on different types of vibrations in both scale and direction.
Harmonic Damper - rotational forces.
Balance Shafts - vertical forces.

Harmonic damper - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Balance shaft - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Hmm the harmonic balancer reduces vibrations and the balance shaft is just one big vibrator.

Technically with a balance shaft the engine has twice the rotational vibration than the crankshaft without it. It just shakes itself in an opposite direction than the vibration of the crank.

So deleting the balance shaft is better for engine harmonics? Something like that

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[chrisman287]

I may use a gates water pump.

Aisin pump from Rockauto. Google a coupon code for 5% off.

 

[DSMPT]

you need to have a rubber harmonic balancer to reduce damage to the crank from vibrations

Yes, but a harmonic damper works for different type of vibrations like Steve mentioned above.

Im going to delete the balance shaft that helps the engine not to vibrate

Opposite. Aside from how much you feel the engine vibration and pros/cons of deleting the balance shafts, if you want to technically make the engine vibration less as much as you can, then you should keep the balance shafts.

Technically with a balance shaft the engine has twice the rotational vibration than the crankshaft without it. It just shakes itself in an opposite direction than the vibration of the crank.
So deleting the balance shaft is better for engine harmonics? Something like that

No. You are misunderstanding. I don't know if I can explain well but I try to clarify a bit more for future reference since it seems many people are also confused and misunderstanding.

Engine vibrations that you feel are a combination/composite of different type of vibrations. The point you have to understand on deleting the balance shafts is, the balance shafts are against "ONLY" the vibration that is called secondary vibration and technically keeping the balance shafts is the only way to cancel and reduce it. And you wouldn't have any extra vibrations from the balance shafts as long as if you set the timing correctly. It's not like the vibrations from the crank or the other parts itself, it is from the engine design/mechanism (Our case is about a straight four engine. If the other layout engine, the story would be different). It regularly occurs every 180 degree crank rotation due to the difference of piston speed and position. And the vibrations have the same direction, with that being said, they don't cancel each other out at all. So balancing the rotating assembly or install an aftermarket harmonic damper wouldn't cancel or reduce the secondary vibration. Which means if you would delete the balance shafts, the secondary vibrations would always remain on your engine even if the engine is built and balanced perfectly. But thinking in the other way, deleting the balance shafts wouldn't cause more vibrations than the secondary vibrations and would give you some benefits instead.

The secondary vibration is noticeable but it's kind of "acceptable" vibration. To drive the car, it's not a must to eliminate.
Keeping the balance shafts for more comfortability for daily purpose. Or deleting, it may make the comfortability a bit less and perhaps a bit shorter lifespan on some parts but instead of those, you can free up a bit more engine power and gaining a bit more gas mileage. Probably for most of people, the biggest benefit from deleting is to eliminate the risk of problem that would be caused by balance shafts or its belt failure. But vibration is enemy as you know. Even if itself wouldn't cause any noticeable issue immediately and directly, maybe it would possibly become a cause of some issues by time. So this would be really up to you, on what point and how much you can compromise or you can't.