opinions needed - Remove balance shafts?

[Bigmike4g63t]

Need some input. I am accumulating the parts to do a lot of work at once. If I am doing the timing belt, water pump, clutch and flywheel at the same time would it make sense to go ahead and remove the rear balance shaft? Also, what all seals/gaskets should be replaced while all of that is taken apart and easy to get to. I am pretty sure everything is original to this car as it only has 75,000 miles on it.

 

[dwb]

If you're going to remove the balance shaft, that's the time to do it. If you do, make sure you use an OEM stub shaft that has the oil relief groove. Some of the supporting vendors sell a decent BS delete kit.

This is what I used in 2015 when I replaced all the seals in the front case (for a '91 turbo). Double check these numbers.
Front Case & oil cooler
001 04379 1 MD620908 O-RING,ENG OIL COOLER INR
002 02017 1 MD014194 MD149393 GASKET,ENG FR CASE
003 03070 1 MD069949 OIL SEAL,CRANKSHAFT,FR
004 04114 1 MD149370 GASKET,OIL FILTER BRACKET
005 02099 1 MD041021 O-RING,ENG FR CASE 26.2
006 04028 1 MD095355 OIL SEAL,ENG OIL PUMP DRIVE GEAR SHAFT
007 04184 1 MD000312 GASKET,OIL FILTER INR
008 03623R 1 MD069950 OIL SEAL,BALANCER SHAFT,FR RH

Valve Cover
001 01111 4 MD125940 GASKET,ROCKER COVER SPARK PLUG HOLE
002 01110 1 MD125939 GASKET,ROCKER COVER
003 01221 1 MD050536 SEAL,CYLINDER HEAD CAMSHAFT END RUBBER

Camshaft
001 03130 2 MD008762 MD133317 OIL SEAL,CAMSHAFT

CAS oring
001 14939 1 MD611831 01 O-RING,CRANK ANGLE SENSOR

Don't forget the oil strainer/pickup gasket: MD183240

And since I like to provide visuals:

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[Bigmike4g63t]

Awesome info. Thx

Any opinions on just removing the rear balance shaft?

 

[steve]

You can leave the front/upper shaft in and just disconnect the belt when you pull the lower/rear shaft but whatever you do you have to "disable" both at the same time.

 

[99dsmer4g63]

In my honest opinion I would just pull the motor and remove both shafts. By the time you get the transmission out and try to lower the timing side of the motor to remove the rear shaft your motor will not be attached to anything minus your wiring harness at that point.

That’s just my opinion. I am NOT saying that it can’t be done because I’m sure some hack will comment saying he’s done it. I’m sure you have.

At this point you can really see the engine bay and give it a nice cleaning and look over. Just my .02.

I would also suggest checking your oil pump clearances while you have it off.

If your leaving the motor in the car you better get a castle plug tool or have Marty make you one

Also wasn’t your user name like stang extreme or something like last week? Or am I imagining this?

-Daniel

 

[Bigmike4g63t]

Also wasn’t your user name like stang extreme or something like last week? Or am I imagining this?

-Daniel

Ha, yea my name. I originally joined this or the original site years ago and never commented. Just read stuff. At the time I had a gst, a mustang gt and a s10 extreme, hence the weird name. I was able to change the name after contributing $.

I currently have no means to pull the engine. I will have the stuff handy when I'm doing the other work and see if I think I can do it at that time.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I understand that you don't have the stuff to pull the motor/tranny all at once, but I am with @99dsmer4g63 on the fact that it certainly would make things sooo much easier.
Make sure to check the "step" height on the replacement flywheel, as that is the critical measurement and you want it correct when you reassemble it.
HERE is how you make your own castle nut socket for .50¢........

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[Mech Addict]

Your bearings on the shafts should be fine with that low mileage. Just put in new belts and shouldn’t make that much difference on a mostly stock mill.
Also, since you presumably pulled the pan to do the front case, don’t forget turbo oil return line gaskets, and with that I recommend the fancy grade 10 bolts and rubber-gasketed washers for the pan-end of the return line flange. They were oem on one of the EVOs. I had sealing issues on mine, is all.

 

[chrysler kid]

Its preference to keep or delete the balance shafts

I do not consider the balance shaft delete a value added modification, or a value added maintenance item. If I was to buy a mostly stock and original car i would want it to have the balance shafts. You have zero benefit if deleting it, and face possible complications from it if its not done correctly.

I say keep it, run a kevlar belt and balance shaft belt.

 

[Bigmike4g63t]

I have been back and forth on the balance shaft delete. Points well taken on the original car aspect, although I am quickly making it not so original. I do not plan on running it at the track though. I believe I will pass on doing that at this point.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

When going back with balance shafts, I use a performance balance shaft belt also. That may be what @chrysler kid was saying also.
Something like this or from an even better company like Gates and their T168R. So many times the balance shaft belt is what takes out the timing belt so I try to go with the best balance shaft belt I can to keep that from happening.

 

[CrackedDSM]

There are definite benefits to a balance shaft delete, just would like to point that out. Takes rotating mass out of the equation, and takes away another belt that even if it doesn't break can and will slip off and cost you an engine. Doing it right the first time is easy. Don't really see any drawbacks, and personally I can't really see any pros to keeping them.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I can tell the difference, out of my 3 cars, which one still has the balance shafts when driving. If it is going to be a DD, I like my balance shafts, but if it is any kind of a car that see's "abuse" then I pick the cars without the extra belt.

 

[Bigmike4g63t]

Yea, I believe I will not do that at this time. I am trying to find a complete timing kit with water pump and balance shaft belt. Leaning towards the STM Gates kit.

 

[dwb]

I bought my timing kit from Extreme PSI. Last time I checked they still had OEM tensioners, which are discontinued and becoming scarce. I decided to use an OEM belt as the standard Gates belt I had previously installed broke in half.

 

[Bigmike4g63t]

OEM all the way?

 

[Dericsh]

OEM all the way?

If it’s in the budget, OEM or upgraded (Kevlar belts) is best.

Aftermarket is obviously more affordable. Even with an aftermarket belt/seals kit, it’s best to source an oem tensioner.

Jnz sells white box parts, they are from oem manufacturers without the oem part numbers. I think he has an option for a build your own timing belt kit so you can mix and match.

 

[dwb]

OEM all the way?

If it's difficult, time consuming, or a vital component, I try to use OEM or better.

 

[JohntyBee]

The GSC race shaft is an option to look at for your Balance shafts. I’ll be installing one on a spare 4G64 block I have.

I also would recommend OEM timing components if you can. I tried Gate stuff and I had issues twice with the Auto tensioner

 

[Bigmike4g63t]

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Does this look decent for $326?

There doesn't appear to be a balance shaft belt and tensioner though.

 

[CrackedDSM]

I can tell the difference, out of my 3 cars, which one still has the balance shafts when driving. If it is going to be a DD, I like my balance shafts, but if it is any kind of a car that see's "abuse" then I pick the cars without the extra belt.

I've never been able to tell a difference unless I had solid/poly mounts. On the OEM mounts I swear I never could tell the difference and if I could, it was negligible at best. There was more of an increase in NVH in my Ford Edge when I upgraded the factory rear motor mount with an aftermarket billet/poly one, and even then it's kinda nice.

Even with poly mounts the increase in vibration in my DSMs was always worse with polys/prothanes than there seemed to be with any other aftermarket mounts. IDK why. Window Weld + cut up cutting board hammered into the stock mounts absorbed vibrations like a champ but were solid AF too. Lol.

YMMV.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I have to say that my "stock" GSX does still have its rubber mounts and my other 2 are prothane and I am SURE THEY TRANSFER the harmonics much more. No dampening effect with those things.

 

[Dericsh]

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Does this look decent for $326?

There doesn't appear to be a balance shaft belt and tensioner though.

Your money is better spent with a trustworthy vendor that knows the platform.

Timing Belt Kit, DSM / GVR4 6-Bolt (Build your own!) | JNZtuning.com

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

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Does this look decent for $326?

There doesn't appear to be a balance shaft belt and tensioner though.

Mike, that is not for a 4g63. The ad says "as pictured" and those are not the correct parts. Wrong tensioner, water pump , pulleys, etc.....that's what I can see.
JNZ (and others) are a good source. You are looking at around $500 for all of the parts.

 

[CrackedDSM]

I have to say that my "stock" GSX does still have its rubber mounts and my other 2 are prothane and I am SURE THEY TRANSFER the harmonics much more. No dampening effect with those things.

That's always what I've experienced. Not saying there's no one with stock rubber mounts that doesn't hate their BS delete, but almost always it's due to the Prothanes. I've actually heard a couple people say their solid mounts don't vibrate as much as prothanes do.