Resolved Need help understanding 1G CAS in 2G

[alexr254]

I am doing a 4g64 to 4g63 head swap in a 99 Spyder GS.
Im a little confused about using the 1G CAS (green top), which is the only CAS i have. And have read this is the way to go.
I have the plug for the 1G CAS for 2g 98-99.

Does this make the crank position sensor obsolete? The crank position sensor plug is male, and the harness for the 1G CAS is male.

What exacly do i plug the male end of the CAS harness to for the CPS?
From what i see, the CAS plug for the CPS goes into either of the wiring harness female ends. And the other female end on the wiring harness goes into the coil pack male plug.
The plug for the Cam position sensor is fairly straight forward. The plug from the CAS plugs into the cam position sensior plug on the wiring harness?
It just seems like im going to have a couple open plugs on the wiring harness.. And i dont want to mess anything up if it can be helped.

 

[19Eclipse90]

The two sensors in a 2G share the same power and (practically the same) ground deeper in the harness. The third wire in each connector is the signal wire.

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When using a 1G CAS, there is one connector with four wires: the power, the ground, and the two signal wires for crank and cam positions.

If you have the adapter harness, it should plug into both the 2G sensor connectors in the harness and connect to the 1G CAS on the other end. The adapter harness only uses the power and ground from one of the 2G sensors so one 2G connector will have three wires and the other 2G connector will have only one wire. On the 1G CAS end, this provides the 4 wires needed.

It has nothing to do with the coil pack so throw that thought away. Based on the diagrams, the 4G63 and 4G64 have similar connectors for those sensors so it shouldn’t be an issue. Do you have pictures of what you’re seeing so we might explain it better?

 

[Stapl3]

On 2g's the crank sensor is used to determine the coils, the cam sensor is used for the injectors. Using a 1g CAS would render the crank sensor obsolete.

 

[alexr254]

My biggest issue is im pretty much working blindly. I have no 4g63 to reference anything off of and i never have.
If i had an engine to refference off of, see where things so, what belongs where. It would be so much easier for me.

But as is, im learning as i go. And i am finding out that this swap i am doing unfortunately has very limited resources for information. There are no highly detailed articles or blogs, lots of parts and steps required are missing from some that do exist. And some of the resources for this swap have plain wrong information.

One thing i was missing is the ignition control module. On the 4g64 its mounted on top of the intake manifold and i wasnt sure what to do with the plug on the harness for it.
Now i know i need to get a ignition control module for a 4g63 and it mounts in the same place the coil pack does. And the plug goes there.

I think i am straight about the 1G CAS now in the 2G.

I am still unsure what to do with this plug.

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[Justin DuBois]

Step 1 - make it work
Step 2 - make it work better
Step 3 - break and repeat

You are on Step 1

 

[alexr254]

Step 1 - make it work
Step 2 - make it work better
Step 3 - break and repeat

You are on Step 1

Anyone know where that plug goes?
Or if it’s needed at all anymore?

 

[Justin DuBois]

Anyone know where that plug goes?
Or if it’s needed at all anymore?

Looks like 2G knock sensor to me.

 

[alexr254]

Looks like 2G knock sensor to me.

The 99 Spyder GS 4g64 does not have a knock sensor.
Part of what I’ve done to “make it work” is add one and wire it to the ecmlinked ECU.

 

[99dsmer4g63]

I’m with Justin it looks like the 2g knock sensor and is close to the right location.

Must be 64 specific I can’t think of anything in that location that uses a 2 wire plug in that design.

Good luck

-Daniel

 

[19Eclipse90]

Verify that the wire colors are (1) light green with black stripe and (2) red. If so, it’s for the evaporative emission purge solenoid valve. The connector (and, inherently, the solenoid) was different on the 4G63 versus the 4G64, and the connector shown matches that description against the service manual for this solenoid valve.

It’s not needed if you’ve deleted emissions.

 

[alexr254]

Verify that the wire colors are (1) light green with black stripe and (2) red. If so, it’s for the evaporative emission purge solenoid valve. The connector (and, inherently, the solenoid) was different on the 4G63 versus the 4G64, and the connector shown matches that description against the service manual for this solenoid valve.

It’s not needed if you’ve deleted emissions.

The wires are light green/black and red.

 

[19Eclipse90]

Thanks for verifying. So you can reuse the valve from your Spyder, swap connectors and use the valve from the 4G63, or not worry about it if your emissions are deleted.

The connector is A-66 in each of the diagrams. Note that the orientation of the connector for the 4G64 (diagram below) is two pins, side by side. Compare that to the above diagram for the 4G63 that shows A-66 is two pins in a stacked configuration. I didn’t snap a picture of it, but the configuration diagram for the 4G64 also shows the connector is gray in color.

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[alexr254]

Thank you!
Im deleting emissions.

 

[alexr254]

I took a little break and came back to this.
I'm having a crank but no start condition.

Can anyone confirm based on this picture where the plug from the 1g CAS needs to go?

The plug with the blue wire is set. As it can only really fit in one position.
The other triangular plug is what's always confused me.
And the actual crank angle sensor plug.. Am i understanding correctly that it is obsolete and no longer needed?

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[Justin DuBois]

RRE Instructions

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[alexr254]

I have seen these instructions over and over.
I'm probably just dumb. But i don't know what plugs into what from the 1G CAS to the 2G harness. And i don't get that from the RRE instructions.
The crank angle sensor plug is male and so is the harness from the 1G CAS based on the RRE instructions. They are not compatible.

What do i do with the crank angle sensor? Just leave it in but unplugged?
I dont even know where the old cam angle sensor is, the plug the blue wire fits into goes straight to the harness and not a sensor.

I am basically dealing with a no start situation. And the fuel pump is not starting. I did do the fuel pump rewire and it was tested and worked a few months ago.
I traced 12v to the relay and it was ok. I will try changing the relay.
What else can cause the fuel pump to not start?
The part that confuses me the most is this 1G CAS wiring.

 

[Justin DuBois]

The 1G CAS can provide both CAM and Crank signals to the ECU - but this is less desirable than a two sensor setup.

If you have a Crank sensor, you would be better off figuring out how to use it, and only use the CAM sensor signal from 1G CAS for the CAM.

The custom 1G sensor wiring harness in the diagram uses CAM and CAS plugs that have male pins. One of them is a triangle and the other is a rectangle. The plugs from the 1G CAS harness plug into the engine harness in the car that leads to the ECU. The engine harness uses plugs with female pins.

In your picture, you have two triangle plugs with female pins from the Engine harness pointing at the camera with green inserts. One of those is for the coil pack, and one of those is for the Crank sensor input.

Missing from your picture is a 3 pin rectangular CAM sensor plug on the engine harness.
Also missing from your picture is a 3 pin rectangular CAM sensor plug from and CAM harness.

 

[alexr254]

The custom 1G sensor wiring harness in the diagram uses CAM and CAS plugs that have male pins. One of them is a triangle and the other is a rectangle. The plugs from the 1G CAS harness plug into the engine harness in the car that leads to the ECU. The engine harness uses plugs with female pins.

In your picture, you have two triangle plugs with female pins from the Engine harness pointing at the camera with green inserts. One of those is for the coil pack, and one of those is for the Crank sensor input.

Missing from your picture is a 3 pin rectangular CAM sensor plug on the engine harness.
Also missing from your picture is a 3 pin rectangular CAM sensor plug from and CAM harness.

The cam sensor plug I have is 1 pin.
Maybe it’s different on a 4g64 block?

The harness from the 1G CAS has 2 connectors. One male triangular with 3 wires, and one male 1 pin with one blue wire.
The 1 pin plug can only fit onto one connector from the cars harness, and it’s kind of underneath the thermostat housing so it’s hard to get a picture of.

Edit:
If I’m understanding correctly, then I did plug it in correctly.
Thank you for being patient with me.

The wiring harness from the CAS is plugged into the cars harness and the actual sensor plugs are left unplugged.

 

[Justin DuBois]

If I’m understanding correctly, then I did plug it in correctly.
Thank you for being patient with me.

The wiring harness from the CAS is plugged into the cars harness and the actual sensor plugs are left unplugged.

Yes - I think you got it.

In the future, if you find an actual crank sensor at the other end of the wires connected to the male 3 pin triangle, you may want to use it. The power for the 1G CAS is coming from the engine harness crank sensor plug. If you swap the crank signal from the the 1G CAS to the Crank sensor on the block, you would need to find a way to power the 1G CAS - else there will be no voltage to the cam signal.

 

[alexr254]

I don't think i even have an original cam sensor installed. It must be blocked off. There is no sensor plug. At least not one i can locate. Just the wire from the cars harness that the CAS is connected to.
That's another thing that has been confusing me. It must be different from the 4g64 head.

The crank sensor seems to be the same on the 4g64/4g63.

Yes - I think you got it.

In the future, if you find an actual crank sensor at the other end of the wires connected to the male 3 pin triangle, you may want to use it. The power for the 1G CAS is coming from the engine harness crank sensor plug. If you swap the crank signal from the the 1G CAS to the Crank sensor on the block, you would need to find a way to power the 1G CAS - else there will be no voltage to the cam signal.

I think i understand.

One other question. I've read this somewhere but wanted to ask if its true or false.
Is it true that if the CAS is not wired correctly it can cause the fuel pump to not run?
I just don't see how its connected at all. And thats what led me down the rabbit hole of thinking i did the CAS wiring wrong, the fuel pump is not starting even with the relay bypass and forcing it to run in ecmlink.

I'm leaning towards a bad relay or maybe the MFI plug got loose somehow.

 

[Justin DuBois]

I think i understand.

One other question. I've read this somewhere but wanted to ask if its true or false.
Is it true that if the CAS is not wired correctly it can cause the fuel pump to not run?
I just don't see how its connected at all. And thats what led me down the rabbit hole of thinking i did the CAS wiring wrong, the fuel pump is not starting even with the relay bypass and forcing it to run in ecmlink.

If you toggle the pump relay in ECMLink and the pump does not get power - then Yes, there is a problem. Not related to CAS or Crank signal.

 

[alexr254]

Since i decided im going to stick with the 1g cas, I also decided to go with a black top cas instead of the green top cas i have now.
I've read several threads saying the black top is a better choice. And the green top i have now looks like its in really bad shape.